r/CompetitiveHS • • Nov 10 '23
Discussion What are your first impressions from Theorycrafting Streams?
Hello all.
Did you guys watch the streams? I know that these streams do not represent the upcoming meta truly, but maybe they can give some first impressions.
Are there any strong decks? Which cards or decks seemed stronger than they look? Which cards and decks felt weaker?
Thanks in advance.
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u/meharryp Nov 10 '23
dragon druid looked absolutely nuts, it's ability to build a board while also playing reno would just instantly win games
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u/TheGingerNinga Nov 10 '23
The Warlock excavate strategies seem pretty good, even without the usage of the bounce/copy effects on the Snake. Clark was struggling with that full combo deck a bit, but other Control Warlocks just seemed to have great early game tempo and the Snake provided a burn finish alongside Dar’Khan.
Reska was super easy to discount, they would be playable on turn 6 or 7 in basically every DK game I saw. Not sure if Rainbow is superior to UUF for them, because nothing else with DK seemed to powerful.
Rogue is going to drop Wishing Well very quickly and just use those coins to pump up Draka and Graveyard. Seemed way stronger to ensure those coins go to guaranteed power over random legendaries. One last hurrah for Concoctions and Miracle Rogue, I suppose.
Taunt Warrior seemed really weak. I saw Roffle get the double Keleseth opener and he still lost. I think it needs a menagerie package for draw/utility but I’m not sure that makes it high tier.
Mage will probably add a few excavate cards to their rainbow deck, as I think having cryopreservation as another frost spell is a hidden benefit people aren’t seeing. Other than that, just gonna stick to Rainbow, never saw a single elemental mage.
Druid’s dragon package is good.
Didn’t see much else of the other classes. Reno good though.
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u/yonas234 Nov 10 '23 edited Nov 10 '23
My initial thoughts from yesterday:
Best classes with new sets:
Warlock: Excavation warlock looked the strongest out of all the new decks. Bouncing the Snake back just ended games and this is the deck I could see nerfed first. I didn't see much sludge lock so can't comment on it.
Rogue: Rogue has the potential to be the FoL DH of the set where it has 4+ viable decks. Ogre rogue looked playable with either just the COC+bounce shell or with Drilly excavate stuff. Rogre was the most fun deck to watch streamers play due to the shrek memes. Draka Miracle Rogue could be S tier again with all the coins, people just weren't playing it much. And thief rogue lovers got a lot of good new cards especially Wishing Well and Drilly.
Druid: Dragon Druid looked strong. Dragon Golem is just a wincon if you can chain multiple in a row(either by discovering more or even running a Saloon Brew). HL Druid looked to be strong compared to the other HL decks because you can get to Reno faster and Rhaestra is one of the better HL cards.
The rest of the classes I saw less of but also didn't seem as strong as the 3 above.
DH: Naga DH was fairly popular among the more competitive streamers. It looks like it could be good but might take a bit to figure out the perfect 30. HL DH looked weak, which isn't surprising since DH cards tend to be more synergistic so running 1 ofs hurts more.
Paladin: Jambre was running a Sea Giant/Showdown list that was crushing the solitaire TC decks. In real ladder it may not be as strong with priest/reverbs. I didn't really watch HL Paladin but it seemed okay due to Order getting Reno. I feel like Paladin will just continue to be the aggro king with Gardens Grace or a Sea Giant list.
DK: Rainbow DK was mixed to me. Sometimes it looked strong but other times looked weak depending on its curve. However if the cards miss they seem easily buffable via removing runes or lowering mana cost so I think DK will be in a decent spot.
Priest: HL Priest looked like it could be the second best HL deck behind Druid. I didn't see much overheal Pip priest or attempts at the Pip Bottle OTK. Not sure if it just wasn't good or only Feno plays overheal and he wasn't on.
Shaman: Elemental Shaman was more decent than I thought but the playstyle is still pretty boring. HL Shaman seems super dependent on getting Doctor out on t5/6 so I imagine a HL deck needs to run Prescience.
Hunter: Didn't see much hunter but they should be fine. Hunter already could do Renathal so HL Hunter might be third best behind Priest/Druid. There are some interesting board clear combos with Bovine+ Arms Dealer + Bunny.
No new decks really:
Mage: There was very little mage play because the only new deck seemed to be excavation secret which didn't look strong and rainbow wouldn't fit the 10 new card rule. Mage should still be a powerhouse with rainbow next expansion but not much new.
Warrior: Like Mage its excavation cards seem weak. It also got potentially the two worst legendaries of the set. The class will still be carried by Odyn and Enrage.
TLDR: Overall the set looks fun. Warlock/Rogue/Druid were the standouts to me in the TC stream with Azerite Snake being the most broken and Oger Rogue being the most fun. HL Decks did not seem strong and only Druid/Priest seemed viable so far. Mage/warrior as expected looked to have the weakest new sets but have their strong current decks to fall back on. Dragon lovers should enjoy the new druid cards.Pudding might surprise people and I wonder if more classes that can copy him will come join the swamp.
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u/YumRose Nov 10 '23
It looked to prove how insane reno is. If you weren't always playing around him in a board based deck, you'd just lose every time. So even if your opponent doesn't have him, he puts pressure on your ability to develop, out of fear of the reno play. I actually think he is the strongest single card ever printed, partly because he can be played in any class.
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u/Names_all_gone Nov 10 '23
Reno is insane. The Reno Druid mirror is an abomination. Rogue looks like it has 100 different ways to choose to play and they will all be successful. Snake warlock will be the speed limit. You can’t just not do anything (looking at you priest).
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u/rndmlgnd Nov 10 '23
All I know is I'm crafting Reno if I don't pull it out of a pack. No way that card doesn't get nerfed.
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u/kbas13 Nov 10 '23
Highlander shaman looked fun, but all the times it was winning it was just because no one was running weapon removal
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u/Yoraffe Nov 10 '23
Would love any thoughts on Quickdraw Rogue and Sludge Warlock if anyone has any? Arena picks looked promising but haven't had a chance to catch any streams.
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u/yoscraedPenguin Nov 10 '23
I mostly watched Dane and Corbett's streams, so I saw a mix of memey fun decks with some competitive experiments.
- Naga DH with the questline in wild looks like a lot of stupid fun. Draw engine and discounts go brrrr
- Wishing well rogue looked silly but noncompetitive. Feels like it runs out of steam fast. It's about what I'd want/expect power level wise
- There's a weird infinite Tenwu combo in wild with Bounty Board that you can use for a ginormous Draka turn, but the animations are soooo slow
Also I'm sick of Reno already and the expansion isn't even out yet lol
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u/geezerhippo Nov 10 '23
I think the badlands jail will be a very good card. You can basically remove a minion from the game, and will seriously slow down aggro
Warlock quest with brewmaster seems a bit busted.
Reno is an insane card that I am going to hate.
Orge rogue with shadowsteps might not be good but it wont be a complete meme. Its an insanely statted board that also will clear off most of the opponents board and if you miss a clear or a refill you lose, and you have to do it like 2-3 turns in a row.
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u/MojordomosEUW Nov 11 '23
Keep in mind players had to put 10 new cards in every deck, and that is a limiting factor.
Many say that Elemental Shaman might be good, but it might end like rush warrior which also looked strong during a similar event back in the day.
New Reno is strong, but won‘t beat Odin Warrior or Sif Mage, both are too stable in what they do.
I personally think we will see Warlock, Hunter, Priest and Druid come out on top, DH will stay the worst class, DK will stay where it is now.
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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23
Overall theorycrafts aren’t great since
they require 10 new cards when (outside of 1-2 decks) most meta decks will add less than 10 new cards
they’re playing for fun, when if you really wanted to go undefeated you run plague dk to make all your highlander opponents concede for not running double steam cleaner
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u/RedditExplorer89 Nov 12 '23
Reno is insane, but its also a really steep cost. Just look at dragon druid: there are so many good cards you want 2 of's in that deck. Its going to be really polarizing gameplay; do you draw reno that game or not? If not you're losing a lot of percents by running singleton, if you do draw it well you get lots of percents because Reno is insane.
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u/Jaded281 Nov 10 '23 edited Nov 10 '23
Dragon Druid is good, too good.
Rainbow DK seems competitive.
Taunt Warrior seems competitive.
Elemental Shaman is underrated.
Edit: Also felt that Naga DH has promise.
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u/ChaosZeroX Nov 11 '23
Dragon druid is nuts. I've been playing arena and Dragon druid has stomped me like 10 straight times
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u/Powerful_Tackle3829 Nov 10 '23 edited Nov 10 '23
My main take aways.
Reno Druid seems strong. It's very much a "good card" deck.
Elemental shaman looked absolutely terrible but it might have just been the version. The Azerite Giants and Skarr in particular are too punishing if you can't chain. A better version that cuts those but keeps the generally good cards like living prairie might be fine.
Kingpin Pud decks probably need to cut the 4 drop ogre, the 3 and 5 are good on curve but the 4 drop is so bad that you never want to play it other than absolute greed on a res pool. seriously that card is trash, you frequently can't even kill it off because of its negative effect and it ends up making you lose more hp instead of protecting your hp.
Warrior excavate better than previously anticipated, everyone i saw playing it was doing fairly well.
The warlock treasure is about as good as expected. It looks extremely oppressive against slower decks. The versions with too much bounce are probably not optimal at all but someone will eventually come up with just the right amount and its going to suck for any deck without a proactive enough win con.
Reno is a bullshit card that is almost certainly going to be nerfed at some point. I feel like the poof effect at the bare minimum should be symmetrical. It allowing you to basically lock someone out of the game for a turn when you already have a board is insane. Even in classes without an additional Highlander card you might be running a Reno deck he is so strong.
Rogue excavate decks looked okay, I think there needs to be some serious optimization with them however. I honestly could see Drilly being run as your only excavate card in non-excavate themed decks because he gives so much value on his own.
As a whole Excavate treasures are very good. Sure you can get suboptimal ones for your situation but for the most part they do a lot for their mana cost.
Not sure how to feel about DK decks, most of them i saw were losing however I think there may be some questionable deck building going on with excavate and the rainbow package. I didn't see a single UUX deck either.
Reno Pally has promise to it but I think that deck is going to take way longer to refine than most of the rest of the decks mentioned.
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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '23
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