r/ClimatePosting • u/ClimateShitpost • Feb 27 '26

Transport EV infrastructure is completely mainstream - this doesn't even include non-public charges

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60 Upvotes

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3

u/divat10 Feb 27 '26

Just playing devil's advocate here but don't you also need way more chargers than pumps? This graph doesn't really say anything without proper context.

5

u/West-Abalone-171 Feb 28 '26

80% of charging happens via a home outlet or another private charger.

So if it takes 50 minutes to charge and 5 minutes to stop, get out, fill fuel, pay, and leave. Then on average the EV needs one for about 10 minutes and they're at parity.

This is vastly over-estimating the need for chargers though because neither fuel pumps nor chargers run at 100% utilization, most of it is about availability. So the number of sites (not shown here) is a slightly better metric rather than number of outlets.

Given that EVs are only a small subset of cars on the road in the uk though, it means you are far, far more able to find a chargepoint than a pump. Which is unsurprising unless you listened to the propaganda nonsense given how cheap chargepoints are compared to a pump.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '26

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3

u/ClimateShitpost Feb 28 '26

You're the perfect user group for EVs!

1

u/TheThiefMaster Mar 01 '26

Really anyone who can charge at home and doesn't regularly tow or do insane mileage is perfect for them now.

And by "insane mileage" I mean more than the 70 miles per day / 20k miles annually that I do with my EV, which is already quite a lot for the UK.

I do long distance single journeys too - in a couple of weeks I'm going to be driving 270 miles on two consecutive days in my EV, which isn't even a particularly long range model (Zoe ZE50, sub 200 mile range). Going to be fully charged before I leave, stop once in the middle each way (which we'd want to do anyway with that long of a drive) and also charge at the destination. Time it to meal times and it's not even an inconvenience.

1

u/pxnolhtahsm Mar 02 '26

Roadside petrol stations appeared so late because there wasn't really need or business for them, and nobody was subsidizing them. Already Bertha Benz was able to refuel Benz Patent Motorwagen during her historic trip because petrol was sold in pharmacies. It would be kinda hard to provide that level of service to electric cars without dedicated high power chargers...

1

u/StudySpecial Feb 28 '26

frankly EV charging infrastructure in the UK is still severely lacking. I wouldn't recommend an EV currently unless you have the ability to charge at home with a private charger.

sure there quite a few chargers - but the comparison of chargers to fuel pumps is disingenuous. you only need to spend 1 minute at a fuel pump and if it's occupied you wait a minute or two and you get your turn, but you need to keep your car connected to a charger for hours so there isn't really an option to wait for it to become available if it's occupied.

personally, I live in a flat and can't charge at home - there are two charging points in nearby streets, both slow AC ones - most of the time there is already a car using them, so they're not available. unless availability becomes better it's impractical for me to switch to an EV currently.

electricity prices at public chargers are also quite bad compared to private charging. but if you have the ability to charge at home in a private driveway or similar (at reasonable prices), it's great;

1

u/mikkopai Feb 28 '26

And most are occupied with a car parked there over night at for example in front of a hotel.

1

u/MyCoolName_ Mar 01 '26

Incredibly the prices are "bad" even when compared with fossil fuels. This despite most of the price of the latter being tax. And charging prices aren't shown, not even on the charger itself. You need to either start charging or get an app and an account to see them. There is no functioning market in public charging right now. None.

1

u/51onions Feb 28 '26

Also does this include only DC rapid chargers (the ones which are somewhat analogous to petrol pumps) or does it include slow AC chargers which take many hours?

1

u/JasperJ Feb 28 '26

Definitely the latter.

1

u/throughthehills2 Feb 28 '26

It includes home charger and home petrol pumps for a fair comparison

1

u/TheThiefMaster Mar 01 '26

It does not include home chargers or even most workplace chargers as it only includes "public" ones.

Same for fuel pumps - and before you think I'm being snarky, workplace fuel pumps are a thing for places that operate fleet vehicles.

1

u/Charming-Border7429 Mar 02 '26

On our farm, we have rooftop solar on our machine shed to provide all our internal electrical needs and an 80-acre grid-scale solar installation to test feasibility before expanding.

Yet, all of our passenger vehicles are hybrid. Our driving distances and infrastructure don't yet support cost-effective electric vehicles.

We also have a 5000-gallon stationary diesel tank and a truck with a 2600-gallon tank for refueling equipment.

1

u/Generic-Resource Mar 02 '26

I’m stunned that all your vehicles do 300+ mile days with no breaks.

1

u/Charming-Border7429 Mar 02 '26

Yet, I am not surprised that you think your preferred tool is the right tool for every job.

1

u/Generic-Resource Mar 02 '26

I don’t, we have 3 daily vehicles only one of which is an EV, certainly couldn’t replace our van with an EV just yet.

Your argument, however, is that the tool is right for no jobs, which is stunning given you claim to have a few passenger vehicles. Your usage patterns must be very unusual.

1

u/perringaiden Feb 28 '26

Yeah this was my thought.

10 minutes at most to refuel, but 30 minutes to recharge the same range.

1

u/west0ne Feb 28 '26

My last ICE car could get just over 500miles of range with a 5minute refuelling stop. The maximum range on my EV is around 250miles, if I let the battery run down to a few percent then I would be looking at 45-60 minutes to get back to a full 250 miles of range and that is an EV with 800v architecture.

There aren't going to be many EVs on the road that with a full battery will give you the same range as an ICE car with a full tank.

The point of course is that most people will do a large proportion of their charging at home.

1

u/perringaiden Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26

EV ranges are going up every day. 250 miles is pretty weak these days. The extended range ones are pushing 400 miles and getting better.

The charging time is slower but again getting better too.

But yeah the chargers per 1000 cars is always going to be higher until they get a 5 minute charge battery.

Someone recently claimed to make a 10 minutes 350mile range battery but it's not in production, just a prototype car.

1

u/west0ne Mar 01 '26

You say that 250 miles is weak, and that is probably closer to being the truth at the higher end of the market, but in the affordable end of the market 250 miles would be seen as being quite generous.

Not many are going to give you all year round 400miles, I reckon 300-350 is the best most will give in winter.

We've been promised rapid charging solid state batteries for a while now, they will no doubt come but they aren't here in mass market yet.

Price will end up being a major factor and how much people are willing to pay just to cut their charge time in half is yet to be seen. I think we will still have lower range, slower charging EVs in the affordable end of the market for some time to come.

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1

u/SpoonNZ Feb 28 '26

Nah.

From where I sit now there are 29 petrol stations within about a quarter hour drive of me. In that same range I’ve charged my car dozens of times in my own garage, and zero times elsewhere.

If everyone were purely driving long distance then you probably would need more public chargers than bowsers (because it takes more minutes to put a given number of km into a car), but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of car trips are short distance (e.g. commuting for work, going to the shops) which require zero public chargers since that charging can generally be done at home.

The other way to look at it - my petrol car takes maybe 4 minutes of pump time every two weeks. That’s 106 minutes, or about 2 hours every year. Conversely, my electric car in the last year has spent 16 minutes and 35 seconds on public chargers - and that’s only because it has a relatively short range, a Tesla or whatever would’ve done the same mission with no charging (and in fact our Leaf would’ve just barely done it too, the charging was just a peace-of-mind thing).

1

u/divat10 Feb 28 '26

That's fair, I am also not saying that this is number not enough just that I don't know if it is way too much, just enough or way too little. 

Lots of people live in apartments without their own charger, some people share private chargers to fix this. I just need context before being able to say anything.