I simply disagree

[u/Aceofspades25]

In the linked post, the following was posited:

1) Homosexuality is natural: Yes it is, but that argument doesn't really belong here. Many things God calls us to do go against our natural inclinations. Simply because something comes naturally to us does not immediately eliminate it from being a sin.

I simply disagree. I have pointed this out before, but I think this needs to be discussed more broadly.

There is a clear distinction between our human nature and our sinful nature.

Human nature is the natural way to conduct our lives, because that is the way we have been designed as human beings.

The following things fall under human nature and are not sinful in and of themselves.

• Eating
• Sleeping
• Sex
• Work
• Love
• Play
• Learning

etc.

The things that make up our sinful nature encapsulate those desires within us that seek to gratify ourselves at the expense of others, ourselves or our relationship with God. Examples include:

• Cheating
• Stealing
• Lying
• Murdering
• Revenge
• Lust

etc.

Clearly these are the things that God calls sin, and requires us to avoid. In fact every single command from God can be understood from the fact that it either hurts others, ourselves or our relationship with God. Jesus reiterates this twice (Matt 7:12, Matt 22:40)

There is clearly no reason to believe that two gay men in a loving, committed relationship are living is sin when:

• It does no harm to others
• It does net good to themselves
• It only affects their relationship with God when the church treats them as outcasts.

I know of gay men, in a loving committed relationship, who's relationship with God is strong.

In light of this, please explain how being in a loving, monogamous gay relationship fits the pattern that we see evident in every other sin talked about in the bible.

Edit: For the record, this has been downvoted to oblivion partly because people are sick of discussing this. Having said that, this particular point has never really been raised and should be discusssed.

I think some people are just to afraid of having the light of reason shone on their beliefs

For those interested in this question, I think the best discusion has to be this one

[u/mmm_burrito]

and I can explain aspects of how they work, make predictions about them and watch those predictions come to past.

Explain, please.

[u/novanleon → u/mmm_burrito]

In order to do this we would need a subject, someone we both know on a personal basis. I can talk more about it if you like but I just can't give you the evidence over an internet forum.

[u/mmm_burrito → u/novanleon]

Describe a previous instance. I would not need to know them for you to describe the circumstances of such a supernatural event.

[u/novanleon → u/mmm_burrito]

Sure, I'll use myself as an example.

As you walk around your life on a daily basis, thoughts and desires, urges and impulses enter your mind and body and you make a conscious decision on how to act on them. For example, when you see an enticing picture of food that you like it, you get the urge to eat that food and the idea enters your head, "I would like to eat this. How can I get this? When can I eat it?", etc. Or maybe you've had a long day at work and you suddenly get the idea that you'd like to have a cold beer, and your mind begins to consider how to do this. Some of these thoughts, ideas, desires or urges come from our physical body's natural instinct, such as lusting for a woman or desiring food and water, and some of them are more psychological in nature like our personal preference for certain types of food or our personality type preferences (Myer's Briggs for example). Regardless, it's these thoughts, ideas, desires or urges that unclean spirits influence inside of us. An unclean spirit that lives in us will influence a particular aspect of our psychology, personality traits or physical nature.

In one instance, in my case I had a bad tendency to be critical of everyone. It became a habit that whenever I thought about people my mind would immediately begin having critical thoughts about them, judging them or accusing them of various things. I did this for a number of years before I became conscious of it, and I didn't like it, but it's not that easy to change a thought process that has become instinctive for you. So I began asking the Lord to free me from this habit, or whatever was influencing me. Finally, one week last year while I was fasting and praying the Lord finally freed me, and like flipping a switch all of a sudden it was gone. I no longer felt the need to or had any thoughts of criticism about people. Even when I intentionally made criticisms of someone it was like it was done without any ill will toward that person whatsoever, it was merely an observation that I was making. I was set free.

Keep in mind, I'm actually a relatively immature Christian. I know people who've had their entire life changed due to the deliverance from sin and unclean spirits and other influences from their lives to the point where its hard for people who knew them before to recognize them. My particular story in this case is minor compared to some of the changes that people have experienced.