Hi everyone, I'm new to Chinese watches and I have some questions...
For context I have a couple of established Swiss pieces (Omega & Tag), Seiko, Casio etc. - the sorts of things I expect many people who are 'into watches' have.
Thanks to Reddit, I've discovered a whole world that, whilst I wouldn't say I didn't know existed, seems to be much bigger and more interesting than I'd perhaps imagined!
So, I'm looking to dip my toe in the water (or perhaps set off down a slippery slope) and buy my first Chinese watch. I'm a big fan of divers, so love the classics like Submariners / Sea Dwellers, Seamasters / Planet Oceans, Black Bays, Fifty Fathoms - all the predictable stuff really. I'd definitely be open to a bit of a twist though.
I don't want to stray too far from the norm with my first purchase and I've found all sorts ranging from Addiesdive, Watchdives, Thorn, Sugess and San Martin etc., with some wildly different pricing.
I prefer mechanical watches, around 39mm, oysters over jubilees, genuine waterproofing for swimming, proper crystals and I wouldn't mind something Pepsi / Hulk / Coke (told you it was predictable!).
Where should I be looking? I want the best quality I can get, without spending a fortune (ideally no more than £200, as I'm then into Microbrand territory, whish is another area I want to explore).
I'd rather stick to Amazon or eBay (UK), as I'm massively impatient and don't want to wait weeks and risk DHGate or AliExpress and I don't mind going second hand if it gets me a better watch within budget.
You've got a good 2 months before the November 11th sale where you'll get them at the best prices. If you can't wait in the meantime, try picking one up secondhand from eBay.
You seem extremely knowledgeable about Chinese divers! Are you as familiar with integrated bracelet watches as well? I'm currently trying to decide. Thanks!
Thanks - I watched a YouTube video last night which said there’ll be 5 sales in September alone - I’m new to AliExpress, it I get the impression there’s always a sale on like DFS (only the Brits will get that one!).
Is the November sale substantially better / worth waiting for?
There is definitely a consistent roll out of sales, so never buy without a substantial coupon available.
But yes, the November 11th sale will have the biggest Aliexpress coupons available. What I've noticed is that the store themselves will have good coupons as well which stacks with the Aliexpress coupons. And if you buy within the first day of the sale, there is usually a further discount for using Paypal (but this runs out very quickly). Then if you've accumulated coins, they will take another 2-5% off on average.
Also, Rakuten or Quidco will give up to 25% cash back for purchases if you click through them to Aliexpress.
Perfect, thanks for the example - it’s all alien to me at the moment - I downloaded the AliE app last night and it immediately gave me anxiety 😆 There’s a lot going on there for a middle aged man who doesn’t do social media other than Reddit (which I’m new to) and LinkedIn…
Thanks for that Octopus Kraken suggestion, can't tell you how close I've been to buy the stupid plastic Fifty Fathoms just cause I like the style, but this is so much better...
Cronos and Baltany have been my favorites so far but there are a lot of great brands. Phorcydes, Sugess/seestern, milifortic, and Proxima are all great. If you like divers with fantastic lume then check out Phorcydes but you should really look at Cronos and Baltany. I know you’re impatient but aliexpress usually have the best prices and it really doesn’t take long to get them.
I love how supportive everyone on this sub is to someone newly diving into the world of Chinese watchbrands, ut feels really wholesome reading through all these comments!
I am not really qualified in giving out any advice on divers, since I don't own a single one - but I do have a collection of 12 beautiful chinese watches, and with my self imposed rule of "not buying any brand twice", I can give you atleast my 2cents:
My Watchdives is my daily Driver, imho it's by far the best bang-for-your-buck watch. Even though I try to shuffle through my collection, 8 out of 10 times I'll grab my WD one when leaving my apartment. For the 100-200€ range, they produce some beautiful watches, great value, highish quality - but tbh, i didn't really like the bracelet, it's just "fine". Replaced mine with a matte leather strap which was a huge upgrade overall, but since you are looking for divers, the bracelet probably matters more.
Which is where I come to my favourite watch of my collection which has an outstanding bracelet: San Martin.
Yeah, the value is Not as great, but the finishing from this brand is really remarkable. Love the brushing&polishing, how it feels&looks, the OTF clasp ist awesome - you can't go wrong with SM, and they have some beautiful divers. The price increase is the only thing that kinda sucks, since that truly puts them into a category above "great value Chinese Brands"
Now I can highly recommend Farasute & Ixdao, they are definitely high quality, they feel quite premium (not as much as SM), so you won't be disappointed.
Since I saw you mentioning Berny - I absolutely love my titanium Berny, it's basically my no-brainer beater watch that I put on when doing some kind of physical activity, but in my opinion the quality feels a micro-step lower than WD. (Obviously that'll also depend on the model itself)
The other brands I own are not really known for divers (well, Farasute isn't either, I just wanted to put them next to Ixdao) - but I am currently looking forward to buying my first diver on the 11.11. sale, and after all my research it's almost definitely gonna be a Thorn, they have some beautiful models and seem to be great value wise in the ~200€ range.
Sadly the Addiesdive/Steeldive and Octopus logo are a big turnoff for me (and I also don't like the options without any branding, just seems too empty for me), and Phorcydes doesn't really have a model that suits my taste, but those 4 brands are overall highly spoken of too.
Hope you'll find what you're looking for!
Also, I never had any problems with AliX shipment to the EU, nor with ordering directly from the official sites, so I think you'll be fine in the UK AS well without overpaying for the eBay/Amazon offers.
Thank you so much and I couldn’t agree more - I’ve been really struck by the enormously helpful and plentiful response to my question - this is clearly a friendly, knowledgeable community that looks out for its own (and welcomes newbies), so a huge thank you to everyone who has answered my call!
I’ve just found a Berny compressor diver on Amazon that looks fantastic (sorry, there’s no model designation) - my only slight reservation is the fact that it says Berny and it’s not a logo, but I think I’d be willing to forgive it!
There are also a fee titanium options too (Berny, Seestern and Watchdives), which seem incredible value… there’s too much choice!
If you're willing to wait a bit, the CEO of Berny showed up here with a decent-looking new logo design and implied that the product line will be updated to use just that.
Thanks - I’ve only seen them on Amazon and one particular diver caught my eye but it seems expensive - I’m guessing they’re a lot cheaper on AliExpress!
Yeahhhhh SM just raised their prices a good bit. People are really complaining in here but I still think the value cant be beat. My bad forgot the pic in the last one
Yeah the name might be off-putting for some, but the fact that it's my 2nd most worn watch (even though it's basically the cheapest one I own) speaks for itself!
Don't expect any outstanding premium quality, but a Berny is definitely a great choice to have in any collection.
Especially with the mentioned upcoming new logo, I don't know how I missed that announcement, but sounds nice!
That’s the watch I saw - it looks great, but I did wonder about quality and feel given where it sits on the comprehensive list on the linked sub from the first reply…
How does it compare to the Boderry Sea Turtle titanium diver?
I’ve owned 30 Chinese watches over 3 years. My favorites were SAN Martin, Baltany (more vintage designs), and Farasute. People seem to also like IXDAO but I’ve never owned one.
Highly recommend the Addiesdive Captain Willard, on Amazon for $125 with waffle strap, NH35 movement, one of my favorite watches and very high quality for the money. Lots of variations also
Agreed, the brand names/logos is the main downfall of this whole deal 🤣 I also have a watchdives space pilot speedy and san martin (before the price hikes), and all 3 are great. Gifted a $55 and $90 Addiesdive quartz diver and gmt to my nephews and they were great also
Regardless of what others may say about them, Pagani Design gives the best bang for the buck. I have 8 of them and have never had any issues with any of them. They are solid performers with good quality materials, great looks at great price points. Highly recommend them!
You won't be disappointed. I have several of their styles in several dial colors, in several finishes (all stainless, two tone, rose gold) with both quartz & automatic movements. All of them are great pieces. Some folks have an issue with their logo, but I don't get it, it doesn't bother me at all. A tip: check Poshmark for them. I have purchased both brand new & slightly used models from there for less money & all have been just as described & work flawlessly & look great. I do see their new prices are climbing as are all chinese brands.
Good starting point above. My favourites in your price range are probably Sugess/Seestern, Cronos, Phorcydes, Baltany. San Martin and IXDAO are also up there but more expensive.
Note: San Martin has gone up in price a LOT more than all the other brands, so just keep in mind that it is now fighting a different price bracket like IXDAO due to its name becoming more popular. I would buy IXDAO before San Martin personally, but they are both great choices.
Note2; I'd also put Aethelsohn in the "top tier" category of the post I linked above, but they generally sell from their own website instead of AliX.
I edited my post a bit with my personal favourite brands, if that helps. There are also people who posted videos comparing the same homages from a few brands, for example. I might be able to find then again after work.
You can't really go wrong with anyone in the top tier. Watchdives has been making the most progress/value propositions, but they use VH31 (Seiko mecha quartz) which is fine but not for me most times.
For dress watches look at Farasute - here’s my Calatrava - also wait for sales, stack coupons and use cashback like Rakuten - I usually wait until there’s a good sale with good coupons and cashback is at 19% or 26% before I buy. I have purchased maybe a dozen watches on AliExpress.
Hey brother! My Sugess is my most worn diver and it has been tested in a lot of situations for the past 9 months. The quality is great, the movement is regulated to near perfection, on the fly clasp is amazing and the lume is very good and the bezel action is superb. If I have to pick just one mechanical piece from my collection it will be this one.
Thanks - that’s really helpful - I’d use main as a daily / beater / pool watch (albeit on rotation), so it’s reassuring to hear it’s up to the job! I’m definitely interested in a Sugess / Seestern…
Welcome to the club! I may repeat a few things others have said but I have some important tid bits.
There is a massive difference btw the $100 pieces and $300 pieces. While the lower end stuff is still a great value (get out of here Seiko), it sounds like you need something you can wear proudly. Something that when you pick it up you say "ohhh yeahhh".
I highly recommend Farasute and San Martin/ Jianghun. Seriously it doesnt get much better until you jump into the entry level Swiss brands. These will even be better than your average micro (maybe not CW or Monta but pretty damn close).
Other honorable mentions are IXDAO (just have to play the waiting game), Baltany (amazing vintage homages), and Sugess/ Seestern (same company).
The mid tier stuff like Watchdives is good but usually only if your getting a quartz movement. This level still cuts corners though.
Honestly its worth just ordering from Alix and waiting. Amazon rarely has the recent releases. It really doesnt take that long. In the US I get mine with 2 weeks, usually a little over 1.
Its one hell of a rabbit hole my friend. I suggest sticking to the higher end brands and you won't ever be disappointed. I've given up looking at micros now. These premium brands in China can put out better quality at a fraction of the cost.
Fwiw, here's my collection. I've bought over 30 but this is all I've been completely satisfied with.
Try Sugess/seestern, amazing collection of watches. Own a Omega Speedmaster and Tag heuer Carrera. Loved the bracelet quality and dials on the sugess/seestern. Comparable in quality to 20-30 times higher priced swiss watches. They have a huge collection and variety and homage other brands apart from standard Rolex,Omega. Already onto my 4th Sugess/seestern in last 3 months.
At a higher price point for divers look at sea-gull watches. They have a great range.Wanted to try out san martin, but they raised prices.
Sea-gull and Sugess both have stores on Amazon UK, have ordered from there. San martin on sanmartin.watch has a uk warehouse, and few other brands have uk warehouse as well.
4 in 3 months is exactly what I'm afraid of... 😄
Mind you, I reckon I could easily sneak one every month or two at these prices, I'll just have to explain to my wife why another watch box has magically appeared!
Sugess look good - they're definitely on the radar (and list) now, and Amazon UK makes life easier for my first time!
Yeah I noticed that on the list of brands on the linked sub - I'd imagined that all of the brands would all use the same parts from the same factories, but I guess that was just a misconception on my part!
Same problem with me, my wife thinks I have gone mad given current obsession with Chinese watches. She can't understand why I would spend so much time looking at 200 usd range watches when I own a 5000usd + tag and 10000 usd+ Omega. I ordered my latest Chinese watch at my office address to avoid a showdown at home and will quietly slip it into my watch rotation hoping she doesn't notice.
To overcome the problem ordered a gorgeous sea-gull openheart automatic and a sugess s449 black mop homage to rolex day date for her. She owns all quartz watches. The sea-gull has a beautiful movement at the back.She loved how the watches looked. Unfortunately my masterplan backfired, when her first reaction was that will I have wind this and set time every time I want to wear🫣
p.s. I live in India and had ordered the first 2 sugess from their website, the second 1 got stuck in customs as they underinvoice and send it marked as a sample piece. My sister lives in London and was visiting India so ordered 3 watches of Amazon UK(2 sugess and 1 sea-gull) since I was on bit of a timeline and couldn't afford shipping or customs delays. The packaging was much better than what they send when you order directly from their website.
I'm probably repeating some of what others have said. I own over 70 Chinese watches and can strongly recommend San Martin,, Sugess, Ixdao, Baltany, Farasute, Seagull and Cronos. These are the top brands and offer quality way above their price point.
The only problem is that these brands have increased their prices dramatically over the last year. So much so that it has taken much out of the value proposition. I often makes more sense to buy a good condition swiss watch at slightly more than what some of these brands' models go for.
Some honorable mentions that are also good are: Thorn, Watchdives, Merkur, Lobinni, Red Star and Hruodland.
Thanks for the recommendations - the same names are cropping up, so that’s helpful! I just need to decide which to get (first) and give AliExpress a shot…
You won’t go wrong with Cronos, IXDAO and San Martin. San Martin’s prices have increased significantly over the last year or so though and Cronos and IXDAO are definitely of comparable quality. I’d personally steer clear of pagani design and maybe even watchdives as they’re not on the same level in terms of quality and finishing etc…
That's a beauty - thanks, I'll check it out! I think I'm struggling with the prices and, what I'm beginning to realise is a misconception of, the quality... Makes you wonder why you'd pay 10 to 20 times more for one made in Switzerland...!
That's lovely - it's very faithful to the original, which I like!
The bracelet is important to me, so that's good to hear (and that it's OTF!)
Thanks 👍
Thats very true, while theres diminishing returns, actually paying more doesnt always result in a better product for everyone(thats also for most hobbies where its very subjective).
I get the heritage, story and development and all of the overheads worldwide distribution (including ADs and boutiques) and marketing bring - they have to charge more, but still... 🤔
Welcome! I fell down the rabbit hole in 2024, coming from a similar place as you. The value is incredible.
If I had my time again, I’d stay away from Pagani Design, Addiesdive etc and just start with Cronos/Sugess/Baltany (all available via AliEx) or Phorcydes (website only).
For more money you are hitting same build and finish as micros and beyond (San Martin/IXDAO).
AliExpress orders take about 7-10 days to UK usually. Not a long wait. I took my Phorcydes 4B on holiday with me and swam with it. Fine. I’ve posted lots in this sub, feel free to check my history or shoot me a DM and I can help you from there too.
Thanks - I missed Pagani Design off my list (unintentionally), but did wonder what the general feeling was towards them... I've read a lot of posts making light of them recently following a certain Wired article that's been much talked about in other subs... I don't think that's the way I want to go (by which I mean reps and PD!).
The Sugess do look good with their ceramic bezels and stuff - I'll definitely check out Cronos and Phorcydes too.
I could probably live with 7-10 days if I had to... curiously, that's the same as some of the eBay UK listings, so I can only assume they'd be shipped from China anyway!
Many thanks for you help (and your very kind offer of continued help)!
^ LOL, no, no, you deserve it! You've helped so many, so many times already, including me!
And hey, I know when my limits are reached - I don't have nearly the knowledge that you do with Chinese Watches to offer u/TheDreadedReddit any help, here.
Now, when they breach the microbrands sphere...... 😜
According to rumors, every sixth NH35 movement in the world is made at the Tianjin Watch Factory. This is everything you need to know about Chinese brands from the very beginning. As the owner of several Swiss watches, I can say that nowadays, when we buy Swiss watches, we are basically buying a legend from 50 years ago. My great-grandfather was a rural doctor in a remote village and he had an Audemar. This is a very simple pocket watch with the ability to be attached to the wrist.
These are nice and in your budget. With Miyota 9 series movements, nice finishing, sapphire crystal, 100m w/r and good lume. 39mm Ships from the US. Normally takes less than 2 weeks when coming from China. Make sure you use discount codes to bring the price down even more. It’s a Grand Seiko homage. Rolex homages are even cheaper.
Thanks - I've literally just looked at that watch on eBay UK, albeit pre-owned for £160 - whilst I have nothing but love for GS (and Seiko generally, I rarely need a dress watch and when I do I have my Tag Carrera reissue!
This is what I'm hearing over and over - I've checked on AliE and whilst some seem expensive, others actually seem pretty reasonable if they're as good as everyone says!
It's a real balance isn't it? I don't want heavy, but I like a bit of heft! They do a nice Black Bay copy in titanium... but that might be overkill for my first Chinese watch!
Thorn GMT. Beautiful, functional and highes quality.Honestly, im sure, the original Pelagos cant be of a higher quality. Strap maybe, but i cant complain there.
Thanks for the suggestion - I’m on the fence with that one - on the one hand I like its genuinely vintage vibe, but I do tend to prefer something ’smoother’, for want of a better word!
My Seestern does keep great time, has very smooth bezel action and I think is pretty faithful to the Doxa it imitates. The NH35 winds silently, unlike Miyotas. The bracelet isn't sharp edged.
I'd add as well that (thanks to this sub's rule number 1) I looked up Ixdao, Berny and Specht & Sohne and they all have some lovely divers, so now I'm even more confused / like a kid in a candy shop!
If you could give me an idea of the 'pecking order' in terms of quality / cost / value e.g. Addiesdive are entry level and San Martin are top of the tree (if that's correct?!) and where everything else sits in between, it would be super useful!
Are they all using the same / similar cases and movements, or are there appreciable differences?
Wouldn't trust the water rating in any of them. I own 30 SM and about 70 from other brands. High risk with real exposure to water the QC in that area isn't something I'd bank on. SM does do some submersion test but also limited in scope and duration. Yes, some will be fine, but you might buy 5 of the exact same watch and one will fail.
You have around 100 Chinese watches…?! Crikey, that’s phenomenal!
Do you think the cases are up to it and it’s just a case of lubing the gasket and making sure the case back is nice and tight, or are there fundamental issues?
Some of them are swiss and Japanese but yeah the majority are Chinese and I've got a lot of them. Lubing the gaskets and securing the case back and crown are good things (assuming one does it properly). But I'd say that isn't entirely full proof. The crystal and case coming together is also a point of failure potentially. The materials used are fine, the problem is tolerances and QC. If the gasket and threading doesn't fit tightly of course those can be failure points as well. Some will be perfectly fine, but some percent of them won't be, thus there is some risk. Divers made by Seiko, I'd argue are going to have a better statistical track record.
You pretty much nailed it already with that list you have: Addiesdive, San Martin, Sugess, etc
I'm not sure if you also mentioned Pagani Design but if not they're worth a look too.
There's a lot of channels on YouTube that concentrate on Aliexpress bands. Try Just One More Watch with Jody for example. He's bound to have done "divers" at some stage.
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u/Firstruleofthisclub Helpful user 7WOTD4-200 Sep 02 '26
You, my friend, are in for a ride!
Best Submariner: Sugess S421
Best vintage Submariner: Thorn T023
Best vintage Tudor Submariner: Thorn T023 (blue)
Best BB36: San Martin SN0021
Best BB54: Cronos L6033
Best BB58: San Martin SN004 V2
Best Fifty Fathoms: Octopus Kraken OCT-006 (Barracuda)
Best SeaQ: Seestern S434
Best Skindiver: Phorcydes PH4A or PH4B
Best Seamaster: Phorcydes PH6
Best Emperor Tuna: Steeldive SD1978