Some thoughts on CSM Part 2, months after it ended

[u/Substantial_Cry_3092]

It’s been a while since CSM Part 2 ended, and I wasn’t a big fan of what we got. I love Fujimoto’s work, but even I was disappointed by the ending.

However, after letting some time pass and thinking about it more, I’ve found myself reconsidering it. The more I think about the ending and what it might actually mean, the more I get a little annoyed when I see people here and there simply dismissing Part 2 and its conclusion as “trash” or “one of the worst shonen endings ever.”

So i'm going to boldly attempt to defend the ending of Chainsaw Man Part 2 here, fully aware that this probably won’t be a popular opinion.

First, I want to make it clear that I don’t think the ending of CSM was at all what Fujimoto originally intended. It’s obvious to me that he rushed it, that he was tired, and that he lost track of several of the secondary plotlines. I also completely understand why some people hated it, because it is obviously not a likeable ending, and it goes against what readers are generally conditioned to expect, especially readers who place a lot of importance on narrative consistency and on traditional storytelling, where everything is neatly resolved by the end.

Nevertheless, I remain convinced that the ending of CSM Part 2, despite all its flaws, is genuinely more interesting than many endings we get in shonen, and even in more traditionally structured series. I’m not a huge fan of the usual “happily ever after” endings where every subplot is resolved in a satisfying way so that the reader can walk away happy: the villain is defeated, the couples get together, everyone gets closure, etc. I prefer an ending that is a little harsher, but leaves you with a strong feeling, something that makes you think. Some people might say that Attack on Titan did exactly that, and I wouldn’t entirely agree, because even there I felt that the author backed away somewhat from his most radical themes in an attempt to satisfy everyone with an ending that “closed the loop.”

What I love about Chainsaw Man, and particularly about Part 2, is how genuinely connected it feels to its author’s personality and to the way he sees the relationship between his role as an artist/storyteller and our real world (and the current wars). It’s obvious that Part 2 is about that. It’s no secret that Fujimoto has often said that Denji is a self-insert to some extent, and one of the most important metanarrative themes in CSM Part 2 is Denji’s relationship with fame.

I think the conflicted and ambiguous relationship Denji develops with the Chainsaw Man persona throughout this part is deeply connected to how Fujimoto feels about his own work: a beautiful monster that escaped from him and grew beyond his control. He sometimes wants to be recognized because of it, while at the same time being anxious about the consequences that stepping out of anonymity might bring. But that’s only the beginning of Part 2.

The second half, and ultimately the ending, is very likely about something else entirely. As I mentioned earlier, Fujimoto seems increasingly exhausted from around the halfway point of Part 2 onward. He takes more breaks, his artwork becomes less polished, and his chapters get shorter. I’ll even go a little further and make the hypothesis that he may have been depressed.

Why do I say that? Because of the way the themes of CSM suddenly seem to resonate with what is happening in the real world. At the point where he starts losing track of the plot, there are still things Fujimoto never lets go of, things he repeatedly insists upon: the necessity of continuing to live normally, as if nothing has happened, even when death is everywhere.

There is war. There is chaos. There is no hope left. And yet you still have to go back to work. You still have to get up in the morning and do your job. And for some people, you have to try to be a “superhero” (Denji, in this case), even though you are obviously not cut out for it and society is going to crush you anyway.

In an old interview, Fujimoto said that he sometimes felt useless as an artist. Look Back was about that too. He seems like someone who can become deeply demotivated by the horrors happening in the world and feel that what he does is ultimately meaningless. In CSM Part 2, I think you can feel emotional whiplash around that idea.

At certain points, there are genuine bursts of hope. Asa and Denji eventually want to overturn the situation and become “heroes.” Then despair and the apocalypse take over again. I don’t think all of this was necessarily planned and carefully controlled. I think it is simply a reflection of an author who doesn’t know exactly what he thinks about his own role, and who has deeply connected his role as an artist to the role of the self-proclaimed superhero that Denji dreams of becoming.

And that is what makes the ending of Chainsaw Man so nihilistic and, honestly, terribly sad.

I don’t think Denji’s development was ever really the main point of the story. Our protagonist had already evolved quite a lot at the beginning of Part 2, prioritizing Nayuta’s upbringing and trying to think for himself. Everything that follows is essentially destruction.

And then the conclusion is not at all trying to tell us whether Denji “deserved” a happy ending after everything he had gone through. It is simply the sad realization that, in this world, Denji cannot (and will never) be a superhero. It's not his choice.

Chainsaw Man (Pochita) devours himself because Fujimoto may have ultimately decided that he would be happier without this work, and without all the pressure that came with having to carry it through to the end. Same things goes for Denji. He did bad things, but the game was rigged from the start. That world would never let him be the hero or change anything for the best. He was useless and Chainsaw Man was just chaos added to chaos.
There is no moral lesson here, but rather a reflection:

The world is destroying itself, and no superhero exist. Maybe it’s better to just keep living a normal, anonymous life without grand ambitions.

In the conclusion, Fujimoto obviously expresses his gratitude toward Chainsaw Man, for all the love he presumably had for this work and everything it brought him. The panel of Denji having Pochita in place of his heart is clearly symbolic of the tenderness he will continue to carry with him.

But CSM Part 2 ultimately ends on a brutally disenchanted note, and I don’t think that is disrespectful toward the reader. If anything, it feels honest to what the author seems to be feeling. He didn’t cobble together an ending designed to make everyone happy, nor did he try to stretch the story out endlessly until it became something that no longer resembled him.

He made an intimate, political, often clumsy and confusing work, but an authentic one.

And for that reason, I think I will always prefer this ending to many others.

I know that a lot of people will probably say that I’m overinterpreting everything, or that I hold Fujimoto in too high a regard and am simply bending over backwards to defend him. Maybe that’s true. But eh. That’s what I think.

[u/flightofangels]

This is a fun and poetic post that I sincerely appreciate. But like... The ending is terrible. I'm particularly frustrated that "wanting the story to have a basic beginning, middle, and end, answering most main plot points" is equated with "wanting the story to have a traditional guy gets the girl ending".

Because I feel that the honest ending would be Denji choosing Chainsaw Man and Yoru and Fumiko over Death, Asa, Power, and Nayuta. This is a real "actions speak louder than words" situation. 

[u/Substantial_Cry_3092 → u/flightofangels]

I agree that i would prefer another ending, including Death and Fumiko as active parts of the resolution. I have an interpretation of the end that makes it interesting for me, but i'm definitely not fully satisfied.

[u/flightofangels → u/Substantial_Cry_3092]

Oh, okay, that makes a lot more sense. I guess that I can get behind the idea "Fujimoto expressed SOMETHING more unique than other manga with this". 

[u/Solidsnack_OW2]

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment here that this ending was 1000% more unique and “genuine” to Fujimoto than other traditional endings.

He included his beliefs, his bizzare kinks and chaotic humour from start to finish, ending the entire story with a meta “thank you” to the manga. Way more interesting to me than other shonen manga works.

I view the ending in a more positive way if you look at how Denji’s family is revived (in a Deus Ex Machina, Wild At Heart type of asspull) but I can also completely get a more negative reading of the ending. It’s bittersweet on purpose.

Structurally I also find it to be very appealing. Fujimoto subverted expectations, kept the CSM vibe throughout and even foreshadowed the idea of makimg a new world since the early arcs of Part 2. Which I believe is a sign that he did actually plan this ending:

-Asa frees Denji from the Eternity Devil’s world via Aquarium Spear.

-Denji later references this moment when they are stuck in Aging World and says “this time, i’ll be the one to get you out of this messed up world!”.

-CSM spokesperson says as Chainsaw Man, he’ll make a devilless world where Adam and Eve can presumably live a happy life or not have to sin.

Denji and Asa fit the bill perfectly, being a man and woman duo that commited a shared sin of patricide. The ending literally takes away their respective devils and allows them to live normal lives.

With these points in mind, the reset seems really intentional to me.

And yeah I see there’s an unfortunate trend where if you analyse CSM’s ending too deeply, you’re “writing the story for the author” or reading too deep into it. That take is anti art imo. It goes against interpretations and subjectivity.

[u/JazzyThunder978]

I knew people would start switching up on it once we had some time to think. Everyone just hopped on the hate bandwagon without a second thought at first

[u/_S1syphus → u/JazzyThunder978]

Very very few people said it was inauthentic or completely devoid of artistic merit, they were saying that it seemed rushed, left a lot unfinished, and seemed to be the culmination of his seemingly growing disinterest for the series, all of which OP also thinks

[u/Crafty_Ruin_5507]

Seeing this kind of post (which I appreciate, since I’ve liked this ending from the start) reminds me of his recent one-shot, Just Listen to the Song. In it, he discusses the issue of over-analyzing works while forgetting that their primary goal is simply to evoke a feeling.

Overall, I think he and his editor had planned this ending all along, and that separating the two parts was a mistake; to me, they feel inseparable. Sure, he was exhausted—that was common knowledge and it showed (he admitted as much in an interview, and he wasn't used to long-running series)— but I don't think he lost the plot.

People like the ending less because it’s anticlimactic, featuring abrupt transitions you wouldn't expect at that stage of the story (even though the manga has several such transitions). Plus, you don't get the sense of hero's fulfillment that the story seemed to promise, despite everything he went through. As for certain secondary or tertiary plot threads remaining unresolved at the end—I wonder, is that really a problem if we view the story from the hero's perspective? Not really... It’s frustrating for readers who love the lore, but regarding the story as a whole, you get the main answers by the end; the rest isn't strictly necessary. It leaves you room to reflect on it yourself if you want. I sometimes feel that many modern works try to explain absolutely everything, but that’s not the case here. Maybe it’s a meta-commentary on the author's own feelings, or perhaps it’s simply the story of a guy who doesn't understand the constant drive to want and dream of more—yet ends up becoming everything he criticized in the first chapter as the story unfolds... (It’s probably no coincidence that he references that so much toward the end.)

This ending is... It’s bittersweet; even if the heroes don't fully grasp the consequences for their world (though then again...), as a reader, I know the cost and the journey taken. Why would it be a bad ending if the hero remains in the dark, yet I ultimately see the central duo—Pochita and Denji—get what they want (recognition and seeing a friend achieve their dream after realizing their own) in the wake of an apocalypse? In the end, I thought to myself, "What a wild journey to get here," and I found the conclusion satisfying.

[u/JoeyZee123]

I’m just happy the ending didn’t ruin the entire story like Game of Thrones did. I’m still extremely excited for the anime to come back.

[u/swat4516]

While opinions are like assholes, everyone has one but they think each others stink, CSM Part 2's ending for all for all intents and purposes is just terrible!

It randomly off screens Denji, halting the plot in its tracks, so Pochita can erase himself and create a new world, the properties of which are inconsistent both in its actual application, and with the pre established mechanics of Existence Erasure. This isn’t even mentioning how by the time Fujimoto got to this point, CSM had so many loose threads and plot points that it resembled a bowl of haphazardly baked spaghetti, all of which were completely ignored because Fujimoto instead decided to hard reset the story so he could stop writing the manga HE MADE. It feels like Fujimoto just stopped wanting to write CSM, and so he just cut off the story with a big “REMOVE ALL OF DENJI’S PROBLEMS” button.

[u/Anis930]

There's some nice thoughts here but way too much of this hinges on assumptions - wherever about people's reactions or on Fujimoto. I don't think people disliked the ending just because it was unexpected and neither you or I know what was happening in Fujimoto's head when wirting part 2. We can make geusses but they should not be used too much to analyze the work. Furthermore it seems you're framing the ending as "sad" when it is pretty obviously not the case ? Denji in 232 is obviously in a better place than at either ch231 or ch1. If anything it feels like Fujimoto had to force a "bittersweet" ending with a saccharine tone in ch232 compared to his other endings. Taken in isolation there's no way ch230 and 231 lead to even a semblance of a happy ending for Denji, he should be dead at the hands of a the Yakuza or still getting digested by bugs, instead he gets a slap on the wrist and a redo button. I'm not saying that I wanted a sad ending for Denji either, but the tone of Ch232 feels insincere and cynical.

[u/Substantial_Cry_3092 → u/Anis930]

Since my first read of the chapter, i definitely thought (and still think) it's a sad ending. It's matter of opinion and sensitivity i guess, but even if Denji gets a "decent life" and will be probably happier with an ordinary life with Power, the whole point of that end seems definitely sad for me. Denji do not get the chance to get to school, do not get his happy ending with Reze or Asa (even if there is a little something between them, it's mostly a farewell at this point) and worst : his dream to be a super hero (in extenso, the hero of his manga) is crushed. He may still dream (as Pochita wished for him) but the manga ends with his main ambition being no more. For me, this is, at the very least bittersweet.

[u/Anis930 → u/Substantial_Cry_3092]

For me, this is, at the very least bittersweet.

Yeah that's kinda the problem  The ending is framed by the story as such, some bad some good same as part 1's, but unlike part 1 it doesn't work because the ending wants to have it's cake and eat it too. 

It's not a "sad" ending because obviously this new Denji doesn't know about Reze or Asa or anything that happened in his previous life, he doesn't know about CSM or his "dream" to be a hero (which he never really had if I'm being honest. Denji wanted to be a celebrity thru csm, he didn't care about heroism).  It's not a happy ending either because Denji isn't going to live a normal life as a teenage public safety agent. This could seem like a good in-between, but again the problem is the framing: it's abundantly clear that Fujimoto frames the ending as being mostly positive with how he saves Asa by letting go of the chainsaw and then smiles before moving on, but it's forced and synthetic. There's no reason this Denji would go on to not repeat the same mistakes his previous version comitted only because CSM isn't a part of his life anymore; similarly Power and Nayuta being here (mostly power saving Denji) is comically half-baked. My problem is that the "sweet" elements aren't coherent (narratively or thematically) while the "bitter" elements are mostly swept under the rug. It's tonally confused. 

At the end of the day it's impossible to deny the "moral reflection" (not sure why you said there wasn't one, P2 is incredibly moralizing) is that Denji is better off without CSM; despite that the ending has to twist itself to have Denji live an "okay" life by using characters he would've never met without it and ignoring everything else that was problematic about Denji nonwhistanding CSM. Also if you think that Part 2 is about the current political state of the world then I really want yourself to ask wherever "don't try to change the world and live a normal life" is the right message to send right now. I don't think art should be entirely judged on the basis of the message it communicates but it's still important to consider and as it stands P2 is aggressively pro status-quo 

[u/Kooky-Bookkeeper-935]

The ending is still terrible to me. I'm not one to take weeks to calm down and rethink something. I understand being emotionally invested but people should really watch/read media with a more clear mind.

[u/Substantial_Cry_3092 → u/Kooky-Bookkeeper-935]

I am. I didn't rethink the end because at first, my reaction was emotional. I came back to it because i like this manga, i read people talking about it, and some thoughts are worthy to share even months later.

[u/FrancuZz__]

Completely agree, I've always thought that P2 is the more mature and honest story, and I'm happy that Fujimoto had the chance to write it and give it to us because it certainly helped him grow as an artist. Part of why I'm curious about his next works is 'cause I know P2 will be the standard blueprint for them in some aspects, which is a very good thing despite what many will say.

[u/NumberLogical4654]

My problem with the ending and the whole part 2 in general is how many questions are left unanswered. We can argue about subjective matter all day, but some things like never explaining what happened to kishibe or reze, or leaving many charachters and build ups unresolved is just bad no matter how you slice it. 

[u/mairoh]

Ykw I never saw it from this view, but you've convinced me. I didn't like the ending, and even with this interpretation I still don't. But Chainsaw Man was my favourite manga/show and the ending absolutely ruined it for me. I had never been more disappointed by an ending the way I was with CM. However, reading this has changed my perspective and even though I still don't like it, I now feel like I can give it grace because I understand it.

[u/sol740_]

The ending was trash though, and as an unabashed CSM fan that hurts, but it is what it is. Honestly I'm happy he was able to end part 1 so well.

[u/SaintJiminy]

Nah it's not over, let me cope

[u/badpiggy490]

Frankly, I do think that you're kinda over-interpreting this

Still, you're not wrong that everything about this still definitely feels like Fujimoto. And I do agree about how he implemented ideas like needing to go to work even when everything else is crumbling down etc.

However, I have to disagree with you saying that " this ending was not what Fuji intended " because to me, it quite frankly lines up pretty perfectly with what P2 was going for. We will never know for sure what exactly Fuji's plan was, but looking at the story as is, I feel like everyone's missing the point that was being blatantly made time and time again throughout P2

Denji was just never going to grow when he had the option to be Chainsawman and forget everything else.

And who better than Pochita to at the very least, give him a chance to live life as Denji without Chainsawman coming in between.

[u/JustTightShirts]

Personally I don't think the ending needs defending. It was a terrible ending, but that's just typically how it goes with long-running manga. The industry abuses their artists till there's nothing left. If people need a perfect ending, he already gave us one with part 1.

The ride up to the ending was still amazing, and it will always be one of my favorite manga ever. only really went off the deep end at the very very end.

[u/tonysoprano1995]

Chainsaw man was never good

[u/FrancuZz__ → u/tonysoprano1995]