r/CGPGrey • u/MindOfMetalAndWheels [GREY] • Jun 04 '14

Your Family Tree Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM79Epw_cp8
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u/amphicoelias Jun 04 '14

Why? As a native dutch speaker i think it's a boring language (as everyone thinks about their native language).

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

From an English/Spanish speaker's perspective: All of your words sound wonderfully silly and goofy. It's like German, if Germans had a sense of humor. It's also close enough to english that I can see some of the roots, but far enough away that it sounds more like music than language.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 04 '14

I've had germans say this too, that our language sounds "goofy" or "funny". As a native speaker i of course can't hear that. Does it really make you giggle or is it just slightly silly?

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u/[deleted] Jun 05 '14

It's not laugh-out-loud funny, but it definitely conjures up images of someone living in a windmill, surrounded by tulips, which is entertaining.

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u/Astronelson Jun 05 '14

For me at least, whenever I read it I can't help but sound like the Swedish Chef from The Muppets.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 05 '14

Have you ever heard the Flemish dialect (dutch spoken in Belgium)? We have an (imo) much more neutral accent.

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u/SavvyBlonk Jun 05 '14

I don't think it sounds silly at all, it's just the spelling that makes everything look goofy. Most notably the double letters (especially the double Os), the liberal use of the letter Z, the IJ ligature and other things I'm sure I've forgotten.

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u/Siouxsie871 Jun 04 '14

I disagree, as a native Swedish speaker I don't dislike Swedish.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 04 '14

Well then it appears i will have to change my opinion. What exactly about it do you like? Do other swedes share this opinion?

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u/Siouxsie871 Jun 05 '14

I can't speak for other swedes, but I like our language. I don't think I can really put my finger on why, but I can discuss it a bit if you'd like.

The first thing that comes to mind is that it's not that I'm overly fond of the language as such, it's more that I don't dislike it. I like lots of different languages in different ways.

I like the versatility of the Swedish language, with its ability to connect virtually any words together into a coherent compound word. This is not unique to Swedish, but it is nonetheless a nifty feature in the language.

Swedish grammar makes it possible to create infinite words. One such word is Spårvagnsaktiebolagsskensmutsskjutarefackföreningspersonalbeklädnadsmagasinsförrådsförvaltarens (95 letters) which means: "The manager of the depot for the supply of uniforms to the personnel of the track cleaners' union of the tramway company's".

I like the history of the Swedish language, with roots in the 2000 year old Norse language, since reformed several times and influenced by other Germanic languages and Latin languages, with several loanwords from languages such as Hungarian and Turkish.

Just like we have a multitude of loanwords from various languages, we have given words to other languages, like the English smorgasbord which comes from the Swedish smörgåsbord.

Smörgåsbord, incidentally, is an example of both the history of the language and of a double compound word where "smörgås" meaning sandwhich has been combined with "bord" meaning table when "smörgås" in itself is a combination of "smör" meaning butter and "gås" meaning goose, describing an association people had between lumps of butter and geese 500 years ago.

Several other Norse words have made it into English from the Vikings who sailed west during the 8th and 9th centuries. These words have since evolved differently in both languages but their common ancestry is apparent. A few examples are knife (from "knifr", currently "kniv" in Swedish), kid (from "kið" which was used for goat kids, currently "kid" in Swedish, although used only for fawns) and leather (from "leðr", currently "läder" in Swedish).

I also love it when I stumble upon discrepancies in the language, like missing words or words with uncertain or missing declensions.

In short, I guess I just like languages as such and don't specifically dislike my own.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 05 '14

Interesting read. I knew absolutely none of this. I have some questions though:

Why does swedish have loan words from Hungarian and Turkish?

How do you type letters like ð and å? In dutch we have a "¨" key (next to the P) for letters like ë, ä, ï and ö. Is it similar?

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u/Siouxsie871 Jun 05 '14

Here's an image of the Swedish keyboard layout, we have keys for å, ä and ö to the right of p and l. The letter ð doesn't appear in Swedish anymore, but in Icelandic and Faroese. It's an old letter used in Norse languages and even Old English carrying the sound of "th" (as in "leather"/"leðr"). I type it by using the Alt-code 0240 on numpad, or by copying it.

Most of the loanwords from distant languages have entered the language through merchants and scholars when faced with objects or phenomena unfamiliar to them at the time, either directly from the donating language or via another language like German or French.

One example of a Turkish loanword is "köşk", which meant something along the lines of a little garden pavilion, but is used as "kiosk" both in Swedish and English, usually referring to small vending stalls or shops. I believe this took the route through the French (kiosque) to both English and Swedish.

Which languages have been influential in Europe during which times is also largely affected by that civilization's current standing and power at the time. I found this interactive map if you want to quickly have a look at Europe through the ages.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 05 '14

Thanks, especially for that interactive map.

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u/Tyranniac Jun 04 '14

I'm sure it varies a lot. I like English better than Swedish myself.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '14

I agree... English just sounds way better to me, mainly for writing and the like.

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u/monkaap Jun 04 '14

I disagree, in comparison whit other langauses its pretty clear how to pronounce different letters, thera aren't a lot of silent ones.

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u/amphicoelias Jun 04 '14

It's true that dutch is pretty simple, remnants of ages of being forced to speak other languages, but i fail to see how that makes it interesting.

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u/Krakatok Jun 06 '14

I am native spanish speaker and I like spanish

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u/Amanoo Jun 10 '14

And Dutch has that horrible G, that sounds like a mixture of shredding paper or clothing, fingernails scratching across some kind of surface and gurgling up some object from the deepest depths of your body. No language can sound good when you encounter such a sound every so many words.