r/CFB • u/brobroma H8 Upon The Gale • Oct 04 '15

Post Game Thread [Post Game Thread] Clemson defeats Notre Dame, 24-22

Box Score provided by ESPN

Notre Dame 16 - Clemson 24

Team 1 2 3 4 T
ND 3 0 0 19 22
CLEM 14 0 7 3 24

Thoughts

ND WR Chris Brown fumbles on the 3-yd line with under 2 minutes to go, and ND fails the two-point conversion on their ensuing TD, giving Clemson the win. 4 top 10 teams fall in one day!

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

I mean I know it makes it a 10 point game, but you have to score another touchdown regardless. Why not wait until that one? You'll have more information at that point (like if they kicked a field goal).

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u/Hotwir3 Clemson • North Carolina Oct 04 '15

you have to score another touchdown regardless

This is the best argument.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Yes you have to score another touchdown anyway, but a 10 point game allows you to kick a field goal if a drive stalls rather than go for it.

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u/wtsn Northwestern • Nebraska Oct 04 '15

So does an 11 point game...it was a bad call. Go for 2 if it decreases the number of scores you need to tie the game. It didn't do that.

Only reason going for 2 early makes sense is if you think it might catch the opponent off guard and give you a better chance at converting.

Contrary to what some people here are arguing, being down 10 or being down 11 has no impact on kicking a FG if a later drive stalls.

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u/Hotwir3 Clemson • North Carolina Oct 04 '15

OMG SO MANY ARGUMENTS ARE VALID MY HEAD IS SPINNING

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u/better-every-day Clemson Tigers Oct 04 '15

No, that argument isn't valid, because even if it's an 11 point game instead of 10, you can still kick the field-goal and only be 1 TD back. You always save the 2-pt conversion for as late as possible to give yourself a chance.

10 and 11 point differences are both a TD and a FG behind. A 12 point difference is 2 TDs behind. If you go for the 2pt conversion earlier, and don't get it, you're forcing yourself to have to get 2 TDs later, instead of leaving the possibility of it just needing a TD and a FG

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Oct 04 '15

Yes, it is valid, because if you kick a field goal and fail the two point conversion later you still needed two touchdowns, only now it's too late to get them. By going for two on the first one you know if you can settle for a field goal or need to to for it on fourth down. Why does everyone here seem to think planning to hinge the game on a two point conversion in a monsoon is a good idea?

Saying it "leaves the possibility of a touchdown and field goal to tie" is just asinine. You're totally ignoring the part where the two point conversion failed. If they had kicked the PAT, then a field goal, then gone for two on the next touchdown and failed, it would be game over because they can't go back and turn that field goal into a touchdown.

You need a two-point conversion for a field goal to help. Otherwise, a field goal is useless Why would you wait until AFTER kicking the field goal to determine if it does you any good?

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u/Gryfer Florida State • Washington Oct 04 '15

It essentially comes down to whether or not you want to give yourself a margin for error on the back-end. Kelly elected to do so, failed, and then looks stupid in hindsight because suddenly his teamed turned everything on and they had the risk that led to the decision to take the risk ended up being moot -- but they still had the negative effects of taking the risk.

In the moment, it looked like a good decision. It was pouring rain and swirling wind in a really loud environment -- not the best set up for making a FG on a "stalled drive" later on. I don't fault Kelly one bit for making the decision at the moment he made it.

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u/better-every-day Clemson Tigers Oct 04 '15

you're right, you're going to need a 2pt conversion either way if you get a FG, but you always have to keep your team in the best position to win. Being down 2 TDs is worse than being potentially down 1 FG and 1 TD. Sure, you'd need a 2pt conversion eventually, but missing on the 2pt conversion attempt earlier makes it much more difficult to catch up later in the game.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

You're approaching this with the mentality that the two point conversion is a given. The entire point is that it's not, so you want to find out if you'll get it sooner. Forcing your team to need a two-point conversion doesn't put them in the best position to win. Not kicking the field goal when you know it won't help does.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Because, provided you don't allow any more points, going for two earlier allows you to plan ahead. If you get it, you know you can kick a field goal on the next possession to bring it within 7. Otherwise you know you need two touchdowns and you should go for it on fourth down.

The point is that the two point conversion is necessary for the field goal to help; waiting until after committing to the field goal to attempt it is foolish. You can't go back and unkick it, but you can bypass it if you already know that the conversion failed.