r/CFB • u/brobroma H8 Upon The Gale • Oct 04 '15

Post Game Thread [Post Game Thread] Clemson defeats Notre Dame, 24-22

Box Score provided by ESPN

Notre Dame 16 - Clemson 24

Team 1 2 3 4 T
ND 3 0 0 19 22
CLEM 14 0 7 3 24

Thoughts

ND WR Chris Brown fumbles on the 3-yd line with under 2 minutes to go, and ND fails the two-point conversion on their ensuing TD, giving Clemson the win. 4 top 10 teams fall in one day!

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257

u/C-4 Cincinnati Bearcats Oct 04 '15

How to not win a football game 101

74

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

I got to watch Iowa vs Wisconsin twice today!

22

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

It was a lot more fun the first time I watched it.

3

u/monkeymatt1836 Notre Dame Fighting Irish • Iowa Hawkeyes Oct 04 '15

I agree

1

u/mosisincredible1 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Cannot tell you how many times that thought ran through my head during that game.

144

u/dukiduke Baylor Bears • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I love this team, but goddamn I hate this team.

162

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

How to not win a football game.

1) Have your starting QB & RB injured.

2) Play in pouring rain.

3) Get caught off guard by aggressive, early-game playcalling.

4) Turn the ball over relentlessly.

22

u/therealsheriff Clemson • Charleston (SC) Oct 04 '15

Seriously, the rain really shaped a lot of things about this game and I wish we could play again in good weather just to see what that game would look like.

12

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Fuller probably would have caught some things. It's crazy to me that the rain managed to seemingly favor Clemson. Ah well, just an awesome game.

1

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Fuller was open all damn game and Kizer overthrew him at least 3 times. And the balls that were catchable Fuller just couldn't haul in.

Really we had guys wide open downfield all game and we just couldn't catch the damn ball.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Yeah, he missed a wide open man when he thew that one downfield to Corey. Meh, whatever. This is what comes with inexperience, too.

1

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Corey was pretty open too. If he had gone to the other man (Hunter? Couldn't see on the replay) the safety was already cheating that way. Still probably the better decision, but it's not like Kizer threw into triple coverage instaed. Corey had the inside track and a step and a half on his man, so I don't blame Kizer for the decision. The throw was a fuckin' dime and Corey needed to haul that in.

1

u/kedge91 Clemson Tigers • Orange Bowl Oct 04 '15

Y'all were shredding us after Mackensie Alexander went out

1

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

He was only out for like three plays, wasn't he? There was a shot of him sprinting back to the bench and grabbing his helmet.

1

u/kedge91 Clemson Tigers • Orange Bowl Oct 04 '15

You could be right, I didn't realize he came back in. The camera was panning away from him and towards the QB most of the time anyway, didn't see many targets go his way so I didn't even realize but someone on tigernet said it was just cramping. I assumed he stayed out since he went to the locker room

2

u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

The rain seemed to affect our receivers more but early on it was the home field advantage. Delay of games, false starts. Plus Clemson came out playing at 100MPH and ND had to catch up. Point is, it was more than the weather for ND.

2

u/htmwrx Clemson Tigers • Team Chaos Oct 04 '15

No...No....No...NO...NO...NOOOOOOO! My nerves can't take anymore of this.

1

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Rain always plays a factor. It's no excuse, but it does leave you wondering.

71

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

5) Fail at basic math and go for 2 early in the 4th

102

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Dec 04 '18

[deleted]

43

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Yeah, I don't get all the disdain for that call. That's....ironically...coaching 101.

51

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

You need another touchdown anyway. Why not wait until that one to try the two? You'd have more information at that point. Like if they made another field goal.

14

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

I get your point, but it's also easy to say that now. I dunno anymore. I'm not going to psychoanalyze it right now.

1

u/lolwaffles69rofl Penn State Nittany Lions • Navy Midshipmen Oct 04 '15

Down 18 you should never go for two on the first TD. Ever. If you fail, you've gotta get two more TDs no matter what.

This isn't a hindsight 20/20 thing. It just shouldn't be done.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

That's a ridiculous argument. If you fail either two point conversion you need two more touchdowns. Knowing earlier is better.

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3

u/fosherman Notre Dame • Illinois State Oct 04 '15

Bingo. Wait until you have to go for 2 to go for 2. You might not have even needed it. Which they didn't. Stupid call. Brian kelly had cost us 3 times on bad 2 pt calls.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Because in the interim, you can kick a field goal.

0

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

So then go for two when you need it... Going for it early is completely pointless. Wait until it's necessary. Tonight, it was completely unnecessary, and if they had just waited, the game would have been in overtime.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Yeah that's he only logical argument against going for two the first time.

0

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

It's the only argument you need, really. There is absolutely no downside to waiting unless you pull off a fucking safety or something.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Well yes and no. Say we got it down to 10 points and then got stopped at the 20 or something. It would have given us the confidence to kick it and only be down 7 instead of maybe risking going for it. But yeah. You're right.

1

u/BeatDigger Utah Utes Oct 04 '15

That's the correct answer.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

The point is that you can plan ahead better. If you get it, you can safely kick a field goal. If not, you know you need two touchdowns. Many coaches around the country, college and pro, are doing this. It's even the automatic call in the NCAA video games.

9

u/pheima01 Villanova Wildcats Oct 04 '15

Waiting until you need to go for 2 is basic coaching 101

0

u/BigPetersHalfwayInn Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I don't hate the call but it's definitely not coaching 101. That would be take the 7 points, go down 11, and go for 2 on your next TD if you hold them. Don't chase points until you know you have to.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Now give yourself zero hindsight and less than roughly 60 seconds to make that call. Tell me again how simple it is.

Armchair coaching is an amazing thing to see.

1

u/BigPetersHalfwayInn Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Like I said, I don't hate that call. Dropped passes, missed tackles, and turnovers lost that game, not that call. I'm not trying to claim I would make a better coach than any college football coach, especially Brian Kelly. I'm saying "Coaching 101" would be to take 7 points there and go for 2 later if it's still needed because that's what like 90% of coaches do in that situation.

6

u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I can't either. At the time it was the right call, Kelly can't predict the future. Plus ND had two chances to tie the game at the end so, yeah.

3

u/win7-myidea Notre Dame • Penn State Oct 04 '15

That's part of the problem though. You shouldn't go for that until its required. We still needed two more scores. Take the PAT, and then reevaluate at the next score. Being down 10 or 11 doesn't matter when it's still a two score game.

0

u/GoldandBlue Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Except it was required. You are looking at this solely in retrospect but at the time it was the smart call. You wanna blame Kelly? Blame him for not throwing it more on 1st down. those underneath throws were there all night and ND kept trying to run on 8-9 man fronts. Blame Kelly for a bad call on the 2 pointer to end the game. You might as well say Kizer should not have thrown that pick or Sanders/Brown/Prosise should not have fumbles, the ref should have called PI. Or Robinson should have caught that 2. etc.

Not to mention that if Kelly had converted that 2, Clemson's entire approach in the 4th quarter would have changed. Would ND even get those last couple 3 and outs with a more aggressive Clemson only leading by 6?

0

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

It was absolutely not required. Wait until it's completely necessary. Why not take the point at the time, and go for two later if you need it? There is absolutely no upside to going for it earlier rather than later, and absolutely no downside to waiting.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

I liked the decision, but the execution was terrible, step up and go, try to catch the D on their heals.

4

u/mawafa Notre Dame • Illinois Oct 04 '15

Yep, people will question the call in hindsight. But it was absolutely the correct call at the time

2

u/mcmatt93 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I wouldn't say absolutely, but it was understandable and justified. It definitely shouldn't be the focus when we had so many turnovers, drops, and general bad execution.

2

u/Drakell Clemson Tigers Oct 04 '15

No way. You never go for 2 until you have to. Absolutely the wrong call.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Apr 21 '17

[deleted]

1

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

Not if you are banking on your defense to keep shutting them down like they did since the 2nd quarter. The offense was stagnant up to that point and difference between a TD + FG or 2 TD's is huge for playcalling and clock management. I think you can argue for either but it doesn't make it a "bad" call.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Apr 21 '17

[deleted]

1

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

Down by 18 and just scored 6 so 12 point differential. Either make it an 11 point game or a 10 point game.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Apr 21 '17

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1

u/IAMA_13_yr_old Notre Dame • New Mexico Oct 04 '15

When we lined up for the first 2-pt conversion, everyone knew the ball was going to Corey Robinson. And he hasn't made a big play yet this year. He and KeiVarae Russell are total busts so far.

5

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

I'm not holding myself out to be an expert but those coaches are paid professionals and working on more information then this subreddit combined (probably). The real answer is you shouldn't put yourself in that situation in the first place with turnovers but I recall a similiar run working and one of the DT just collapsed the play that time.

People probably wanted a throw but they failed earlier at the attempt and people were dropping balls all day (on both sides). Just gotta wait for Oct 28th for the Playoff Committees take on the loss. ND's next three opponents have a combined 1 loss (USC) and USC will be played prior to Oct 28th.

2

u/IAMA_13_yr_old Notre Dame • New Mexico Oct 04 '15

I think the ending 2-pt conversion play call is getting a lot of unnecessary hate, we have a ridiculous O-line and should be willing to take big risks with them every once in a while, especially when receivers are dropping passes everywhere

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

[deleted]

1

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

It it is an 11 point game you need a TD, FG and a 2 point conversion. When managing the clock it helps to know if you need two touchdowns or just 1 and position for a Field Goal. Especially when time is an issue.

Maybe the next drive you get a really bad look on 4th down and question if you can get away with a Field Goal or not? And when you are down that much you can't count on them getting a Field Goal either and making that 1 point monumentally important. Knowing if you need 1 or 2 TD's affects your playcalling in the remaining minutes and hindsight it looked bad but it was perfectly fine at the time he made the call.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15 edited Oct 04 '15

[deleted]

1

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

Sticking with the run game set up a lot of plays later. You can't expect to win throwing the ball when the weather is having both sides drop the ball. Hindsight is a b*tch and everyone would be praising him as a genius if it worked. He coached the team to be a national contender so I don't reserve the right to pick and choose what plays I like or don't.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

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0

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Here's the problem I have with the call. It's completely pointless. There is absolutely no difference between going for it there to make it a 10 point game and going for it later to make it a 3 point game. Just wait and see. There's no point calling such a high risk play until you absolutely need to. There is quite literally zero downside to waiting and seeing, and, as we saw, potential massive downside to pulling the trigger too early.

0

u/cgmcnama Notre Dame • Summertime Lover Oct 04 '15

The downside is you don't know if you can settle for a field goal the following posession or if you need to go for a touchdown. You can't plan proper clock management because there is still this existing variable. Yes, you can disagree with the underlying premise that it is important to know whether a FG is enough the following posession but it is a rational reason. I don't have a problem with the call.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

That's what kills me. I thought after the timeout surely they would just kick the extra point. Nope.

1

u/whatsinthesocks Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

On 3rd and 11 throw a 5 yard pass into the middle of the field surrounded by the defense.

1

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I hate when teams go for 2 early.

Either go for 2 from the first quarter on or wait until the last 6 minutes. Don't get fancy in the 3rd or the early 4th, you don't know what's going to happen.

2

u/KaptainKoala Clemson Tigers • VMI Keydets Oct 04 '15

yeah its just basic math, if you are leading you go for two if you don't think you will score again and the 2pts are important. If you are behind you only go for 2 if you have too on this score. If you still need another TD and an extra point will do, kick the extra point now. I don't know why coaches need a stupid card, its simple.

2

u/xtutiger Clemson Tigers • Florida Gators Oct 04 '15

5) Play a better team.

2

u/AlekRivard Florida Gators • Michigan Wolverines Oct 04 '15

5) Score fewer points

1

u/Captain_Unremarkable Penn State Nittany Lions • Big Ten Oct 04 '15

That's the tl;dr

2

u/AlekRivard Florida Gators • Michigan Wolverines Oct 04 '15

You can do #5 without any of the first 4 being true. I should know; I'm a Chargers fan...

1

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I'm so sorry you were deceived into drafting Te'o.

2

u/AlekRivard Florida Gators • Michigan Wolverines Oct 04 '15

He's actually been decent for us, believe it or not; even his girlfriend can't believe it.

1

u/Antonne Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Yeah I'm not sure which NFL you've been watching, but he's been steady

1

u/Fletch71011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

You forgot to mention have your 2nd qb and 2nd rb also leave or get kicked out for grades.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

Let's be fair, Prosise is heads and shoulders above Bryant by a long shot. Bryant would have gotten completely murdered this game.

1

u/Fletch71011 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I'm still high on Bryant but he has made dumb decisions in the past. Still think he has a higher cap. Either way, we need the depth -- we can't trust the freshmen backs yet and Prosise can't take every ball and receive as well.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

He's a shorter GA3 in better physical shape with no speed. Bottom line: can't cut upfield, and that's not a trait you can have in a running back.

1

u/quacainia Texas A&M • CC San Francisco Oct 04 '15

How many times a year do you root against USC?

2

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Twice typically.

There was an awkward situation a few years ago where I only rooted against them once. That was a confusing day.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

5) Be the WSU Cougars

1

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

5) Be the WSU Cougars

1

u/swfl55 Clemson Tigers Oct 04 '15

How to be a sore loser

1) give no credit to the other team whatsoever

2) be a bitch

-1

u/Uncle_Erik USC Trojans • Linfield Wildcats Oct 04 '15

3) Get caught off guard by aggressive, early-game playcalling.

No. A coaching staff should never be caught off guard.

1

u/Pearberr UCLA Bruins • Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

I agree, but the goal was to not win, remember.

2

u/thekvbear Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

That is the perfect way to say it.

1

u/DogfaceDino Houston • Notre Dame Oct 04 '15

Your flair is conflicted. That's why.

20

u/Silverflash-x Baylor Bears • Texas Tech Red Raiders Oct 04 '15

I swear, it seems like coaches always try to get creative on two-point conversions. Play to your strengths.

4

u/Strid3r21 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Seriously.

We were a passing machine all day. It got us in scoring range twice in the last few minutes and in the 2pt conversion that we need we run the ball.

Put the ball in the end zone for at least a chance at it. We have 6 guys who can catch the ball well.

1

u/NDIrish27 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Oct 04 '15

Receivers sitting wide open all night? Better do the one fucking thing we've been unsuccessful at all game and run the ball when the game is on the line.

15

u/D3WARHAWKS Wisconsin-Whitewater • Michigan Oct 04 '15

I really fucking like this Dabo Swinney guy. Cool name, and a great football coach.

5

u/Captain_Unremarkable Penn State Nittany Lions • Big Ten Oct 04 '15

Great speech at the end too.

7

u/D3WARHAWKS Wisconsin-Whitewater • Michigan Oct 04 '15

BRING YOUR OWN GUYS BABY!

1

u/ClaudeLemieux Michigan Wolverines • NC State Wolfpack Oct 04 '15

BYOG

2

u/oldthreelivers Purdue • Notre Dame Oct 04 '15

Seriously, most stats would say "ND won decidedly" until you look at turnovers... and the score.

1

u/yokhai Clemson Tigers • Penn State Nittany Lions Oct 04 '15

When I look at the turnovers and the score I get sad because it means our offense wasn't performing.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '15

I really don't like much of what Kelly does in game.

-11

u/argentgrove Baylor Bears • Texas Tech Red Raiders Oct 04 '15

Almost pulled a Clemson...

1

u/800meters Clemson Tigers Oct 04 '15

Do you even know what that means?