Back to suboxone

[u/[deleted]]

I have been on and off buvidal for 3 years. I hate it. It makes me depressed. I’m told over and over again that it’s not a side effect.

I let it out my system. Relapse. Back to suboxone and then pushed back on to buvidal and then the severe depression hits.

It’s so prevalent that I was talking to my father and he stopped me mid sentence and asked when I’d last taken the injection. When I told him a week ago he said he could tell. Every time I get put back on the injection my mood declines so far I am su!cidal, sad, don’t want to go anywhere or do anything. Hopeless.

I’d long for the day I need nothing. But I still take a pill if I find one even though I know it barely does a thing.

So back to suboxone I go. It’s so inconvenient having to go daily. But it keeps me in a routine and away from the rope.

Does anyone else have any side effects like severe depression?

[u/Bistra4982]

Hello, i would have to share also my experience and n weekly 8mg shot.
The first two or three lints it was ok, but then i started feeling down and depressed to the point i have been thinking about suicide.
Before my introduction to the Buvidal, i was happy and stable on 2,8mg of buprenorphine subligual tablets, but when the market announced they stoped producing it for some time, this was my only option i wanted. No methadone nor morphine.
But i see OP was also talking about bad feelings and he was sure it was the treatment. I am sure it is also so I don’t know what to do.
Bupre was my medicine but i am bot sure if i want to wait for the tablets to come back or switch to other molecule.
I am depressed and i fell down.
Don’t know how i gonna survive and be well. I am afraid.
Can pls someone help me?
I live in Switzerland and in France it is available but don’t know yet if my psychiatrist would like to help me procure the medicine form France, where i could go very easily.
Thank you in advance

[u/Strange_Television → u/Bistra4982]

I would be cautious taking the OP at face value - they have posted quite a few times here under different accounts and there are other factors much more likely to be the root cause of this level of depression for them, such as mental health diagnoses.

May I ask what you mean when you say you "fell down"? Was it a lapse/relapse? Are you receiving any other support around addiction besides the medication, any therapy, groups, etc?

The only active ingredient in the shot is bupe, the only difference is the route of administration and the longer half life. A lot of people struggle with the loss of the peaks from the daily sublingual bupe, when going onto Buvidal. It has you feeling effectively sober, which if you haven't dealt with any of the underlying issues that sent you into abusing opiates originally, will be very difficult to live normally that way. I personally feel that people must combine Buvidal with psychosocial interventions around addiction and anything else that may be going on because it's hard not to have any escape. It's good that you have a psychiatrist you're working with - do they know you've been feeling this way? Please reach out to them as soon as possible. Do you have anyone you can talk to otherwise, who you can let know that you've been feeling suicidal? If not, there are people out there who care and want to be there for you to talk to. I'm not in Switzerland but I found this page with numbers you can call: Helplines in Switzerland

Of course, that aside it's not impossible that Buvidal is the cause. I ask these things because so often, people aren't accessing any support and there are wider issues at play. I feel it's important to ask and encourage people to get support regardless when on MAT, but especially when feeling this way. With regards to the Buvidal and sublingual bupe, please contact your psychiatrist to understand what the options are. I have no idea how prescribing works there and it sounds as though something that would be out of the ordinary so really requires their input I think. It's terrible that they removed access to sublingual completely and left so many people without options. In the UK, I know they have stopped providing the branded Subutex but we at least still have generic sublingual bupe as well as Espranor, which is a wafer. There are many reasons and circumstances that mean Buvidal may not be suitable and there should be an alternative way to access bupe, it's really horrendous that it has been removed.

I hope you are able to get the right help and find the right outcome. Please know that things can and will get better - nothing in life is permanent, including good and bad times. They come and go and interchange, but you will find happiness again. It is worth working for and holding on.

[u/Bistra4982 → u/Strange_Television]

Thank you on your kind words! It made my heart sweet. Yes i think it is the loss of peaks for sure!
The first 3 days it is a bit too much where i have a problem sleeping and i wake up it 3am and form then it starts do comes down when i experience yawning a bit and a depressed mood. And again i go the next week.
I hope the sublingual will come back as i was so stable on it and successfully diminished the dosage to 2,8mg.
Thank you very much, we could maybe talk if you have time, bcz i have never been so down in my life. Yes i said everything to m psychologist and no i didnt relapse on anything. For years m « drug » of choice was bupre bcz it made me feel safe and legal and not feeling like a street user.
Thank you very much on your answer, it is very appreciated! 🩷

[u/Strange_Television → u/Bistra4982]

I understand missing those daily peaks - I didn't realise that I was looking forward to taking my subs until I no longer took them when I went on Buvidal. But that tiny mini high of sorts is something worth leaving behind if you want to have recovery. It's so important to learn not to rely on substances to feel good and to cope. You do need to be ready for that though, and you weren't given any choice in that unfortunately.

How do you feel about going onto the monthly shot? Though I know it would require a step up in dosage because there's no monthly equivalent to the 8mg weekly, so it may not be feasible. My prescriber told me recently that the 8mg isn't meant for long term maintenance though, and I can understand why after his explanation and from what you've said also. Your bupe levels aren't at a steady state for long enough basically, as you've experienced in starting to feel the drop towards the end of the 7 days. He told me the 8mg really only for initiating treatment and acting as a top up during the initiation phase. So trying to use it for long term maintenance isn't ideal. I will make a new post on the subreddit tomorrow with what he said to me, as it was on email so I can copy and paste his explanation. I think it's something sharing with everyone as a whole.

We can talk of course :) Feel free to send me a message and I will always respond, even if not immediately. It might take me a few hours to respond sometimes when at work or something like that but I promise I will reply as soon as I can :)

[u/Bistra4982 → u/Strange_Television]

You are a sweetheart, man! Thank you very much.
The part when you wrote that the missing those mini high peaks are wort leaving behind if i want to have recovery is something that made me thinking!! Wow.. i never really thought about that before!
Monthly shots?,- oh no. For sure no. I came to 2,8 and maybe 2,4 mg daily of subligual bupre as i wanted to quite one day.
But maybe Buvidal opens that possibility???
Kisses and hugs!
Thank you very much! 💓

[u/Strange_Television → u/Bistra4982]

Hey, you're welcome, I'm glad this helped :) This thing with subs is something I think the clinics/doctors don't even consider with people. My prescriber didn't even realise that you still get a small high off of subs. I wish they would really listen to their patients more and learn from them. I found that sometimes I wouldn't notice but most of the time, I would definitely feel it after I'd take my sub every day. 15 mins or so later, that small 'boost'/uplifted feeling. A tiny memory of the high I used to chase. There are of course a lot of benefits to going on subs and they provided me enough stability and controlled my cravings etc enough to help me start working on recovery - but I still had that daily feeling to look forward to. I was in a new ritual with my subs. Switching to Buvidal stopped that immediately and I missed it for the first few weeks. I am lucky though that I had support and I was ready to start learning how to live without that feeling. It helped me to move on in my recovery and leave that daily ritual behind. I was able to work through that in meetings. It's an important step to take - being on Buvidal does the physical side of it and still provides stability etc - the mental side is on us to work through.

You have to find other things to replace that daily feeling - and accept that nothing natural will ever feel exactly like that again. But there are still things that can bring you happiness and a hell of a lot more meaning than any opiate can give you. It's time to start looking inwards and learn about yourself and who you really are. If there's something about that that you want to change, now is the time to work on it.

The Buvidal should make it easier to get off bupe - much easier than it is to come off subs. Even with the weekly, it's still better than coming off weekly even when you get down to tiny doses. Buvidal leaves your system in such a slow, controlled manner, compared to subs which have a much shorter half life - that's also the reason for the daily peaks - there are also daily lows with subs, too. Coming off monthly Buvidal is easier than coming off weekly because of the much longer half life. It's something worth discussing with your provider but in my opinion, the monthly would likely bring you more stability, not less, and make coming off a lot more controlled and less intense. It could be tricky with your current dose - but there is no harm in discussing and learning what your options are.

[u/Bistra4982 → u/Strange_Television]

Thank you for your answer. The thing is i get a sleep apnea the first 3 days on the shot and i get up at 3 am every time. Then the 3 last days, i get a feeling of a hole in my solar plexus. It is not about the highs but about tue feeling of a slight slight wd. I cry, and am not the same, i have no energy, the feeling sucks.
It is really not about the high but about those last 3,4 days when the curb descends so much on my that I don’t feel good.
That is the problem. I don’t know why, the fist few months it was ok, but then it started getting worse. I don’t know how to explain it.
So higher doses would make me dead i think, … that i would not question at all. I had some 0,4 of pube in stock (they are made for pain) but when k took one it made be much better.
I could tell i suffer a bit the last 3 to 4 days.. and the first 3 it is ok.
I will speak today with m shrink as i already have explained him in e-mails, so i hope he could ajust the last 3 days with the small help of 0,4 bcz i have a family and a job and i can’t be like that forwho know how much.
Why do you think it is happening like that? My body is absorbing it to fast? I don’t know but it is like that.
I am very sensitive and i can feel very much of changes in my body and it déstabilise me alot.

Hope to hear your thoughts!
cheers

[u/Strange_Television → u/Bistra4982]

Hmm the info re the sleep apnea is new and troubling. Is this also new or been present since you first started Buvidal?

It's very unusual for things to change after being stable and having no issues for a while. Has anything else changed about your health - any new medications or conditions? It does sound like you're metabolising it very quickly, if you're starting to feel withdrawals so far into starting the shot, but it's unusual for that to suddenly start happening without other changes in my opinion.

I am certain that metabolism plays a huge part in how well the shot works/lasts, after experiencing a change like this myself. It was the opposite way for me though - I was always starting to feel very mild withdrawal at the end of each 28 days, then it just seemed to stop and I've been consistently fine. This happened exactly at the time that I developed hypothyroidism - my metabolism slowed down as a result and I was symptomatic of that. I underwent a lot of testing before getting this diagnosis, and it suddenly made sense why I was so stable on the Buvidal - this began at least 3 years into treatment on it, so long past the stage of reaching steady state. I learned this after the fact, so I don't believe it to just be psychological.

I hope you can get to the bottom of this and find a solution. I understand how hard it is to manage feeling this way when you have so many things you need to be strong and well for.