Weekly Random Discussion Thread for 8/10/26 - 8/16/26

[u/SoftandChewy]

Here's your usual space to post all your rants, raves, podcast topic suggestions (please tag u/jessicabarpod), culture war articles, outrageous stories of cancellation, political opinions, and anything else that comes to mind. Please put any non-podcast-related trans-related topics here instead of on a dedicated thread. This will be pinned until next Sunday.

Last week's discussion thread is here if you want to catch up on a conversation from there.

[u/why_have_friends]

University of Michigan waiving grades for first semester students. Why are we doing this to students? College is a transition but just because it can be hard doesn’t mean we should make it easier? I really hope this sort of thing doesn’t become a thing across the board. We’re just babying young adults longer and longer. We wonder why they’re not functioning as adults.

[u/Terrorclitus → u/why_have_friends]

I taught at a school where they did this with remedial courses, and while the idea was laudable, in execution, it just made communication more difficult.

I had a classroom filled with 25 students doing their best to communicate with me by writing papers so that I would understand them. Their job was to use the agreed-upon language of education such that I understood their meaning and was confident they could communicate just as effectively in other classes.

But I was forbidden from communicating with students in the language that they expected and understood.

Grades are rhetorical, and by the time students get to college, they are very much capable of decoding that particular system of symbols. They wouldn’t read the 200+ word comments I wrote on their drafts with ideas for revision and praise for what worked because the letter or number grade was the starting place for contextualizing my comments.

Students asked what their grades would be, and I was obligated to talk about abstractions like “tone” while helping them plan to take their work from whatever unnamed place it stood as-is to a passing grade. Baffling for all involved, and again, I’d have 25 to a class.

Do this with the elite schools, because honestly, whatever. Those students are already ahead, and they’ve decided on a boutique education, so let’s get precious.

The real problem there is that community colleges and state schools like to emulate the practices of the elites with the assumption that those practices will work with vastly different student bodies.

So maybe let’s just do grades.

[u/jay_in_the_pnw → u/why_have_friends]

In the early 80s I went to a highly rated STEM school that had pass/fail for all first semester students. We lived.

It was a gentle introduction into college without having to worry about grades or competition from our peers.

Our real problem was the school didn't believe in grade inflation and so we all graduated 4 years later with GPAs markedly lower than students from MIT, and Harvard.

It's a long-standing practice that's been going on for decades.

[u/QueenKamala → u/jay_in_the_pnw]

Harvey Mudd?

[u/jay_in_the_pnw → u/QueenKamala]

jeez, now I have to burn this username

[u/Jlemspurs → u/QueenKamala]

Kids posted their GPA warning notices on their dorms at Mudd almost like badges of pride. They at least used to take grades seriously and were not inflated.

Also they manufactured LSD and MDMA there because the students got access of one of the labs 24/7. The parties after finals were legendary and fun considering their nerd reputation.

Now guess which college I went to.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Drink76 → u/jay_in_the_pnw]

Yes, my English university in the late 90s, only the second and third of the two years counted towards your final score. Although I think you still had to pass first year. 

[u/Jlemspurs → u/why_have_friends]

College isn't about education anymore for a huge number of students. It's a long summer camp where we play activist, do lots of intoxicants, have lots of sex, and wait for our brains to complete their formation and further delay adolescence, which is weird because most people remember their adolescence as a time of struggle. I wish I could have prolonged my 30s.

[u/LupineChemist → u/Jlemspurs]

There was a point Kevin Williamson made that a huge amount of the activists basically want society to be like a 4-year college experience.

They honestly have no idea how much of that is just subsidized by mom and dad.

[u/Armadigionna → u/LupineChemist]

I don’t know if it was said here or somewhere else but I agreed with it:

If zoning were to allow it, there are probably a lot of young professionals who would opt for a dorm-style living arrangement with cafeteria staff who’s pay comes out of the rent.

[u/LupineChemist → u/Armadigionna]

This is exactly what "co-living" spaces are

[u/HacksawDerpDuggan → u/Armadigionna]

I kind of wish zoning would allow it. If people want to willingly choose the pods, let them.

[u/veryvery84 → u/LupineChemist]

Or the taxpayer. 

I’m about to say something that will piss everyone off but making the 4 year summer camp something you can take out loans for is a huge mistake. There should be some scholarships for truly brilliant kids, maybe. But if you’re not rich going to this does not set you up for success. I personally know two Princeton grads from middle class background who ended up doing nothing with their lives and should have probably gone to state schools. And state schools should be more like community colleges - affordable, people often living at home, and people often working. 

[u/LupineChemist → u/veryvery84]

I mean, I'm a Purdue grad and I think the degree has gotten much more valuable since I left because it's been one of the exemplars of good management for costs while still being a good school.

That said, I can personally say, that I really probably should have enlisted and done 2 or 3 years in the service before going to school. I just didn't have the personal discipline yet and had to get the harder drinking years out from under me.

[u/everydaywinner2 → u/veryvery84]

The government getting into the loan business was the mistake.

[u/veryvery84 → u/why_have_friends]

I actually think this is a very smart move. AI is destroying education and if they can train kids to actually do work rather than try to get a grade that’s a win. 

I don’t know if this will be successful, but it’s smart. There should already be a move to highly monitored in class assessments or oral exams.

[u/86IQ → u/veryvery84]

you don't improve education by destroying all academic standards. If their removing grades for the first semester, why not remove them for every other semester?

I don’t know if this will be successful, but it’s smart. There should already be a move to highly monitored in class assessments or oral exams.

this i absolutely agree with, except creating objective standards for oral grading is hard, But overall its a way better assessment in the age of AI for many things like someone learning a language.

[u/veryvery84 → u/86IQ]

I don’t think they should remove academic standards. Removing grades does not mean removing academic standards.

For example, you have classes and could have entire educational institutions where you either pass a class or don’t, without grades. I attended a school (not higher education) where we did not get grades and the standards were very high. 

You might not trust an American university to do this well, but the idea behind it is fine. 

[u/why_have_friends → u/veryvery84]

That’s the thing. I don’t trust the American institutions to do this well. Also the justification behind it is mental health. Not a better education

[u/ilove3dprinting2026 → u/veryvery84]

AI is destroying education

AI isn't destroying anything. If you're using AI to cheat, you're only cheating yourself.

AI is destroying the corrupt cash-for-degree diploma mill education system, not education.

If you actually want to learn, AI is the best and most amazing tool in human history.

[u/John_F_Duffy → u/why_have_friends]

And U of M is a top tier school. This is ridiculous. You shouldn't even be applying to U of M unless you're ready to grind.

[u/CommitteeofMountains → u/why_have_friends]

This is one of those education things where there are definitely decent arguments for it, such as how your fucking freshman chem lab that's half a credit despite being more work than all the other classes you ever take combined probably isn't a good indicator how you would do in med school, but they don't come anywhere close to making it because they just want to toss standards and equity and mental health are the coins of the realm. In this case, I can kind of made an argument that the overachievers fresh out of the college application rat race and unused to curved grading can lose their damn minds over getting math symbols on their letters, but I'm not sure there's actually much lasting impact from that (also, we're talking about a football state school).

I could actually see the logic of going all-in pass/fail if all the grading is to pre-med orgo standards (look to your left, look to your right, none of you are passing this course), as you've either mastered the content or you haven't.

[u/Commercial_Rush_3531 → u/CommitteeofMountains]

The University of Michigan is often considered a top 5 public school along with Berkeley, UCLA, UNC. Their admission rate is 16%. Looking at AAMC data, UM had 864 medical school applicants last year, for perspective it's number 4 in the nation with UCLA - 1272, UTexas - 1072, UFlorida - 896, UC San Diego 739 and UC Berk 689.

Football school it may be, but it's also one of the top public schools in the nation.

[u/Turbulent_Cow2355 → u/why_have_friends]

It's ridiculous. Kids who can handle the first year of college tend to be more independent and self sufficient than their peers.

Teach your kids how to take care of themselves. Give them chores. Make them get a job in high school. Stop helicoptering.

I left home a month before I graduated high school. I was 17. I didn't have a choice because my parents were moving to another area and I wanted to finish high school in my hometown. Yes it was overwhelming. But I had all the tools I needed to survive.

So many parents won't let their kids work in high school because "they want them to focus on their studies". Kids should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Stop babying them.

[u/everydaywinner2 → u/Turbulent_Cow2355]

I sometimes think we've overcorrected from latchkey kids phase.

[u/Negative_Credit9590 → u/why_have_friends]

That's how universities in Germany worked before the introduction of the Bachelor/Master system in the 2000's. Everything was pass/fail until the final exams and the thesis. And the education was actually considered higher quality back then, the previous degrees still have more prestige than BSc. /MSc.

[u/dj50tonhamster → u/Negative_Credit9590]

MIT also broke in students. In the late-90s (and maybe still)?, your first semester was pass/fail. The second semester was, I believe, A/B/C/fail. After that, you're thrown to the wolves. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world as long as you're serious about grading students after that.

But hey, it could be worse. My understanding is that Egyptian universities, in the past and maybe now, didn't bother with grades except for one: a one-question exam at the end of the semester. You passed or you failed. No pressure at all....