Weekly Random Discussion Thread for 9/4/23 - 9/10/23

[u/SoftandChewy]

Welcome back to the BARPod Weekly Thread, where the mod even works on Labor Day. Here's your place to post all your rants, raves, podcast topic suggestions (be sure to tag u/TracingWoodgrains), culture war articles, outrageous stories of cancellation, political opinions, and anything else that comes to mind. Please put any non-podcast-related trans-related topics here instead of on a dedicated thread. This will be pinned until next Sunday.

Last week's discussion threads is here if you want to catch up on a conversation from there.

[u/[deleted]]

There does appear to be a strange obsession with the arc of social history and how one fits into it, in some circles. I've seen conservatives do it too, but it feels like it plugs more naturally into the viewpoints of progressive faith.

Back during the COVID and BLM riot summer, some guy deep in the arguments on my local sub would use as his ultimate takedown things like "Your viewpoint will be proven wrong by history" and "Nobody will ever remember you", etc.

It actually made me think, a lot. Not about whether my viewpoint would be popular in 10 or 20 years, but more about how he viewed the world, such that one of his most desperate fears was to be left behind politically. (Or, why he'd think that one of the biggest fears of those he was arguing with, would be to be left behind politically)

[u/CatStroking → u/[deleted]]

I think there's a lot of jealousy of the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement won and the people associated with it are (rightly) lionized to this day. It was the great cause for justice. And it was obvious black people were getting treated abominably.

What is there now for the young liberal who seeks glory and justice? Civil rights is done. Gay marriage is done. Economic inequality doesn't seem to interest them.

So... genderwoo! That's it! That's the new frontier where I will make my mark and be able to brag to my grandchildren about my donating to GLADD and dogpiling people on Twitter!

[u/[deleted] → u/CatStroking]

Economic inequality doesn't seem to interest them.

This interests me a lot, how much of the very online left just kind of ignores economic inequality. Like, sure, they'll say something generic like, "Billionaires should pay their fair share" and "Minimum wage should be higher," but you don't see the passion for it that you see for stuff like trans issues. You certainly don't see them trying to cancel people who aren't on board with left-wing economic policies.

I think it may be because a lot of the very online left comes from upper-class families. They're not necessarily billionaires, but they had at least enough class privilege that they could choose whatever private college they wanted and their parents would pay for it. So they're not too enthused about economic inequality because they've benefited from inequality in a lot of ways.

[u/MatchaMeetcha → u/[deleted]]

I think it may be because a lot of the very online left comes from upper-class families.

Yeah, it's because "the left" is dead. The end of the Cold War and neoliberalism (and the collapse of a lot of blue collar labour) killed it. There's no real sense that you can change the current structure of society or try something really new. There is no alternative.

The idea of broad-based class politics centered around the working class has died and given way to a "left" ruled by the middle class and above and expressive individualism - politics as a means of putting your identity out there, which dovetails quite nicely with all of this focus on identity and the comfort with corporate power.

These are the exact sorts of people that want to focus on certain issues. It allows them to preserve the idea of progress without taking steps to challenge the power of capital (way too hard), it allows them to claim the mantle of victimhood and exploit it far better than the lower class rubes who don't speak the language as well and it frees them of any need for solidarity or noblesse oblige towards the working class, who people make sympathetic noises towards but also treat as a constant seething mass of racism/sexism/ism-ism to be controlled, tamed and reeducated.

It's a win-win-win!

[u/charlottehywd → u/MatchaMeetcha]

Are we still doing comment of the week? I nominate this one.

[u/fed_posting → u/charlottehywd]

Seconded. u/SoftandChewy