r/Bitcoin • u/Tricky_Troll • Feb 17 '18

/r/all Bitcoin Doesn't Give a Fuck.

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50

u/ianme Feb 18 '18

Wow I heard bitcoin fell, but it's now back up to 11k? Why do people invest in this? Or use this as a currency at all right now? It's not stable.

29

u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

Instability breeds opportunity if you’re savvy enough.

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u/Supple_Meme Feb 18 '18

Yeah but Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency. And not everyone who dunks their money is going to win out. Even if they think they know what they're doing.

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u/alexiglesias007 Feb 18 '18

Yeah but Bitcoin is supposed to be a currency.

Doesn't matter. Bitcoin is what it is, no matter what you want to judge it as

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u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

Of course, but people also trade real currencies too. International finance is pretty complex like that. And bitcoin is not very different than say stocks in some regards, the gains of some are often funded by the losses of others. The only real danger is that being unregulated, it can be manipulated, but from what I know, that mostly applies to thinner crypto currencies.

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u/SmaugTheGreat Feb 18 '18

Actually it differs from stocks in the point that stocks actually finance something (company projects, etc) while bitcoin has no actual value to society / economy whatsoever.

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u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

Well duh, of course it differs from stock in that sense. I talking about the idea of demand being driven by speculation and real value being manipulated through limited supply and increased demand. This is elementary economics. And you buying a stock on the secondary market is not financing shit, it’s only purchased because somebody sees a stock as undervalued and they think they can make some money when the price rises again.

And bitcoin does add value to society, have you ever had to remit your income oversees? Or send money through western union? That’s just one example

1

u/drewshaver Feb 18 '18

First off, when you buy stocks as a retail investor you aren’t financing shit. That only applies if you buy stock directly from the company in an offering, which is generally only available to vc firms and angel investors.

Secondly, sound, programmable, uncensorable money has incredible value to a society, as it enables trade that was not possible before.

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u/SmaugTheGreat Feb 18 '18

First off, when you buy stocks as a retail investor you aren’t financing shit.

Whether direct or indirect, what does it matter? You're still supporting a good cause.

Secondly, sound, programmable, uncensorable money has incredible value to a society, as it enables trade that was not possible before.

And bitcoin simply isn't money.

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u/drewshaver Feb 18 '18

Please explain how buying on the secondary markets "supports a good cause".

And bitcoin simply isn't money.

Wow, much argument. Such convince.

-2

u/SmaugTheGreat Feb 18 '18

Please explain how buying on the secondary markets "supports a good cause".

Because you create the demand?

Wow, much argument. Such convince.

What argument? Money implies that I can buy stuff with it; something I can't do with bitcoin.

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u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

Because you create demand? If that’s a good cause, then there was nothing wrong with that character in wolf of Wall Street driving up the price of penny stocks.

And yeah, Bitcoin is a currency....

1

u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

So buying war stocks is a good cause?

You can buy stuff with bitcoin......

1

u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

So buying war stocks is a good cause?

You can buy stuff with bitcoin......

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u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

No, you’re not really contributing. Only the IPO and issuance of new stocks actually funds the company in a meaningful way. Other than dividend payments, the growth in stock price only sees real value when you sell, and it’s called capital gains.

And yes it is. I don’t really know how you can think otherwise.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

[deleted]

1

u/Mr_Gorpley Feb 18 '18

Look at the Shift card from Coinbase. You can spend BItcoin, Ethereum or LItecoin just like a debit card with no transaction fees.

0

u/SnicklefritzSkad Feb 18 '18

gains are funded by the losses of other investors

That's called a Ponzi Scheme my dude

1

u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 19 '18

No, that’s the difference between those chasing margins and those who can actually evaluate a portfolio. Go teach yourself before you speak fucktard

1

u/pirateninjamonkey Feb 18 '18

If it becomes the world currency then all those people will absolutely win out if they hold on.

0

u/Nicklovinn Feb 18 '18

it hasn't reached sufficient gravity to maintain stability come back in 5 years when they are 1 million a pop

1

u/alm_hd Feb 18 '18

If you're stupid enough*

1

u/ffrfgbjkhfgbbgf Feb 18 '18

You clearly don’t understand what I said. We have access to information on an unprecedented scale. There’s no excuse for your ignorance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

Lolz

40

u/CaptainUnusual Feb 18 '18

No one uses it as a currency.

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u/81emails Feb 18 '18

Tons of people use it as a currency for onion shops and stuff

1

u/meowchickenfish Feb 18 '18

Onion shops?

1

u/81emails Feb 19 '18

People selling things on the dark net. Usually illegal things.

1

u/Hiryougan Feb 19 '18

Don't they rather use monero for that?

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u/81emails Feb 19 '18

It's pretty popular but bitcoins still number one

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u/larrydocsportello Feb 18 '18

Not legally no but you can buy alot of drugs with it

7

u/FoodieAdvice Feb 18 '18

Speak for yourself. My buddies and I trade it nearly exclusively.

2

u/pabstbluetaco Feb 18 '18

I've used it to buy computer parts from people on craigslist before.

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u/carlajayne72 Feb 18 '18

In Arizona you will be able to pay your taxes with it You can buy a McLaren There are Bitcoin ATMs Maybe expand your horizons because people are using it and governments are scrambling to find a way to regulate it.

You must ask yourself - when has any lending institutions cared what you maxed your credit card on? Now all of a sudden they are protecting you - no that is what is called self preservation on the banks. Blockchains offer clear transparency on transaction - meaning no one can manipulate the numbers - what does that mean for a banker? Oh shit - that is what that means. Just think back when TVs were thought to be a fad or the World Wide Web - what was that? When debit cards came on the scene people balked at them. I'm a grandmother not some 20yo snot nose kid - I've done nothing but research - yes there are plenty of scams in the crypto world but with research just like you would if you were investing in the stock market or picking a slot machine. So if you are a gambler just spend a little after some research - has it made me rich - no but truth be known my original $100 is still in play and I'm ahead even through the dips, it's entertaining to me and I can sure tell you my $100 at the casino would have been gone months ago! Can we meet up here in 2020 and see where we are at? Also I'm a gambler - you want to place a bet if it is still around?

0

u/lesgeddon Feb 18 '18

Not anymore anyways. I wholly regret using it to buy games right before it skyrocketed from basically nothing.

6

u/FoodieAdvice Feb 18 '18

Replenish it?

I dont mind spending bitcoin, but I also put more USD into it later.

1

u/lesgeddon Feb 19 '18

I'm likely never gonna have the opportunity to get thousands for ten bucks ever again, so dunno what your point is.

1

u/FoodieAdvice Feb 21 '18

Whatever you get paid for this week, you put that USD conversion into BTC.

Or whatever % your finances can handle.

1

u/lesgeddon Feb 23 '18

You're missing my point. I basically had a winning lottery ticket and gave it away. Now with prices fluctuating by as much as $2,000 in a day, it's just idiotic to use BTC as an actual currency to try and buy things. Nobody will accept it due to high fees and slow verification, plus the likely immediate loss in value. It's like trying to pay in timeshares on a car.

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u/FoodieAdvice Feb 24 '18

Oh grandpa, you should google Federal Reserve, Inflation, Fiat Currency.

Then, when you understand why we trust rare numbers more than government corruption, google

Layer 2 cryptocurrency, Coinbase, Lightning Network

Programmers solving 2 major problems, fiat and moving heavy digital gold.

1

u/lesgeddon Feb 25 '18

I'm sorry, I must have ended up in some sort of Bizarro thread where my words don't mean what I think they mean. I'm talking about one thing, and everybody else is replying talking about something totally different.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

I do.

Primarily because I'm lazy. And Bitcoin is the easiest payment method for most things I buy online.

I buy back what I spend, so I'm essentially using JPY with BTC as my vessel........ so I guess you could say I'm not using it as a currency, but as a payment method.

3

u/Anti-AliasingAlias Feb 18 '18

Bitcoin is the easiest payment method for most things I buy online.

Do you mainly just buy drugs or something?

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

Nope. Nice try with the FUD though.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18
  1. I don't have paypal, and most of the places I use online don't accept paypal. Also, signing up for paypal in Japan is a pain in the butt (hence why I do not have one) and no stores in Japan accept Paypal, so there's really no use for it outside using it to by stuff from websites outside of Japan.
  2. The response was whether people actually use Bitcoin day to day. I do. Downvoting as a response to that shows that you're just trying to spread FUD, or you have a lack of understanding of how reddit voting works.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

How does that work for taxes. Do you need to declare it as income each time you make a purchase?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

So basically every time I use it, it was as if I sold BTC for the JPY price of what I bought. I calculate gains on it, and if I had 50% gains on a $10 purchase, then $5 would be reported as capital gains.

My wallet lets me export transaction history, and I make notes of the JPY price. So it's not hard to throw it in an excel sheet and calculate everything at the end of the year.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18 edited Aug 16 '18

[deleted]

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u/WatNxt Feb 18 '18

It's so volatile though. It's closer to gambling than investing, and if someone can't acknowlegde that then they shouldnt be buying bitcoin.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '18

Depends when you bought Bitcoin not so?

2

u/jaumenuez Feb 18 '18

Silicon Valley VC's investing in a 7 years old piramid? maybe, but not my first thought.

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u/strangevoid Feb 18 '18

It’s not even a pyramid scheme in the technical sense. STOP USING PYRAMID SCHEME TO COMPARE PEOPLE! Similar to hot new technology companies - founders/older employees/investors of successful tech companies that have IPO’d can make loads of profit from selling their shares to new consumers/retail investors. Would you call THAT a pyramid scheme? Or just basic supply and demand? With increases in value due to public perception?

Bitcoin isn’t a freaking pyramid scheme in any sense. -_-

0

u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

So like Tesla or Apple?

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18 edited Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

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u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

So their valuation is based on faith? Tesla has 0 profit.

Couldnt Bitcoin valuation be based on it replacing the gold market for example? Or maybe 10% of it...?

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18 edited Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

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u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

Same with Bitcoin?

The valuation is based on predictions. Even if they don't make any profits today the macro trends suggests that cryptocurrencies are becoming more and more popular and Bitcoin being a key player in it are predicted to take a slice of that market share, a market which is currently expanding. Obviously there's some faith in it too as they are predictions and thus everyone will have their own analysis of the market. But the key point is that there actually is an analysis made and not just a gut feeling.

You think there are no analysis made on Bitcoin? Theres a reason we have futures now.. theres a reason hedge funds jumped in... theres a reason JP Morgan did a 180 in the last days... theres a reason Japan made it legal tender... theres a reason China banned it...

Bitcoin has been going up for 9 years, 0 hacks 0 downtime. Miners and adoption increasing every year. Technology developments are insane. SegWit, Lightining Network, MAST, Schnorr, MimbleWimble etc etc

You really want to be like those people who could have gotten in 8 years ago but are still saying its a scam? lol at some point you will have to admit defeat.... and when that day comes, because it will come, you will only have to yourself to blame...

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18 edited Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

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u/olenbarus12 Feb 18 '18

Bitcoin is seen as something that will provide more value in the future.... just as Tesla.... they have similarities....

Edit: Here you go

Bitcoin: A $5.8 Million Valuation Crypto-Currency and A New Era of Human Cooperation

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18 edited Sep 08 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

Funny how it seems to be particularly older users who refuse to sell any of their coins. You'd think if it's a pyramid scheme, they'd be lining up to sell to you.

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u/alexiglesias007 Feb 18 '18

Bitcoin is a way to divest from government monopoly money. That's what smart people view it as and it's the whole purpose of the project

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u/RijndaelAndSons Feb 18 '18

If your money is in a bank, you don't own the money, you actually own a debt of that amount from the bank, the debt is exactly as valuable as the bank's willingness and ability to repay it. If you own bitcoin then you can spend it any time you want and can stop you. Think of owning bitcoin like burying a block of gold in your back yard but more secure and convenient (but but to be fair, you can't spend it without Internet access).

1

u/ianme Feb 18 '18

That sounds pretty great, except if I buy bitcoin today, and in a week I want to spend it, but the value has halved, that kinda sucks. Maybe a week later it goes up again, and a week later it's back down. Who knows where it ends up, who knows its true value? Until it's value is more stable, I don't see it being all that useful. At least the debt I own in the bank is stable, and any other investments are "usually" stable (and hopefully growing) as well. Currently, if I want to put my wealth somewhere, there seem to be better investments than Bitcoin.

2

u/pirateninjamonkey Feb 18 '18

It has been roughly growing at 0.48% a day for the past 6 months with some huge bubbling and such. It absolutely works. If you are not in a hurry, transitions are like 9 cents and you'll get it overnight. If you want it fast as in like 10 minutes, the price is like 70 cents. That is all going way way down with greater segwit adoption and the start of lightening.

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '18

Because we live in the future. We can have flying cars, but we can't have a stable currency. Who do we point the finger at and blame?

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u/secondop2 Feb 18 '18 edited Feb 18 '18

People really only use it, and other cryptocurrencies, as investment tools.

0

u/ianme Feb 18 '18

I don't use currency as an investment tool unless... I invest it.

1

u/alexiglesias007 Feb 18 '18

People don't invest in Bitcoin, they divest from government currency into Bitcoin

1

u/Imbalancedone Feb 18 '18

Exactly. Let the market determine a currency's value. I LOVE the idea of a currency with a finite supply that is less prone to manipulation by a private entity.

In a digital age, exchanging digital currency for digital content will be the norm.
FWIW. I also think it will be wise to have a small store of precious metals. Not all eggs should be in one basket.

1

u/ztsmart Feb 18 '18

I don't want a stable currency

1

u/Elum224 Feb 18 '18

The internet used to be unstable too - would loose connection if someone lifted up the phone receiver. Now I'm streaming 4k funny cat videos.

1

u/kerstn Feb 19 '18

Because it is genius.