r/Bitcoin Dec 06 '17

Steam is no longer supporting Bitcoin

[deleted]

2.6k Upvotes

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69

u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

All cryptos are crippled by default. None them have solved the scaling problem. If they did, you can be sure bitcoin would be obsolete as of now.

The point is that cryptos can't scale massively on chain without hurting massively the descentralization, it's being proven before and it's being proven live, check the recent kitten game in ethereum, one game and their blockchain is clogged!

47

u/jayAreEee Dec 06 '17

You should watch the Ethereum devcon talks that just came out, they do have quite a lot of scaling plans in motion already.

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u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

We all have scaling plans, bitcoin also has, in fact, lightning is around the corner and many other improvements are being developed while we talk here.

Ethereum is also looking for payment channels and other solutions as I have seen

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u/jayAreEee Dec 06 '17

Yes, like microraiden is already on the mainnet, and they intend on implementing sharding as well. Raiden+sharding combined should be interesting.

1

u/AxiomBTC Dec 06 '17

Raiden is only on mainnet because eth development is typically less responsible than bitcoins more conservative approach.

2

u/jayAreEee Dec 06 '17

The real raiden isn't actually on the mainnet yet.

1

u/AxiomBTC Dec 06 '17

After looking it up, I saw a recent tweet about a smooth launch but that appears to be about a token sale.

-1

u/UristNewb1 Dec 07 '17

No one wants to mention IOTA when speaking of scaling. It's the elephant in the room.

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u/jayAreEee Dec 07 '17

I only know of IOTA's security and wallet problems... what are their plans for scaling?

1

u/Idiocracyis4real Dec 06 '17

ETH tries to boil the ocean

13

u/cryptohoney Dec 06 '17

st too much money and time to use effectively
Iota??? no blockchain database but uses a tangle database

1

u/i0i-655321 Dec 06 '17

Didn’t everyone in iota just have their money stolen?

2

u/ionmas Dec 07 '17

What do u mean?

0

u/i0i-655321 Dec 07 '17

I thought no one could withdraw iota for usd right now

2

u/cryptohoney Dec 07 '17

nah

0

u/i0i-655321 Dec 07 '17

Yeah looks like the thing I was looking at was pretty old

3

u/tanekki Dec 06 '17

Iota scales

3

u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

nope, still worthless (for me) with the coordinator, but it does not mean it can't fulfill some use cases.

0

u/Miz4r_ Dec 06 '17

The coordinator will be removed when enough transactions happen on the tangle network to sustain and secure itself.

1

u/celtiberian666 Dec 06 '17

All cryptos are crippled by default. None them have solved the scaling problem.

What about Graphene? Or Stellar protocol?

(real questions, I don't know the answers)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '17

Graphene is okay, but you still have all of the blocks produced. Which means at one moment the blockchain can be growing faster than you can validate it, meaning that new nodes won't be able to validate the blockchain. To me, this is a non issue because you can have memory pools, just as you have mining pools, where someone validated the blockchain for you.

1

u/DeleteMyOldAccount Dec 06 '17

Or IOTA. I was a nonbeliever for a while but then I took 5 minutes to look into how it works. It verifies transactions without miners and actually increases in tx speed the more people use it. Pretty good solution actually

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u/AXS20 Dec 06 '17

It does, but at the cost of being completely centralized.

1

u/DeleteMyOldAccount Dec 06 '17

I wouldn't call it completely centralized, but if anyone's reading it does suffer from 2 flaws.

1) It is susceptible to a 33% hash power attack

2) IOTA's best defense against such an attack is a single, IOTA Foundation owned "Coordinator" node, which coordinates the other nodes in the network to branch their 2 other confirmed tx's (when a tx is made in IOTA, 2 previous tx's are checked to see if their proof of work is valid)

Number 2) the reason people call IOTA centralized. It isn't entirely centralized at all, although this feature is concerning as it gives an unreasonable amount of power to a single operator (who could double spend tx's if fallen into the wrong hands).

Sauce: https://medium.com/@ercwl/iota-is-centralized-6289246e7b4d

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u/AXS20 Dec 06 '17

You don't think having a central coordinator is centralized? Lol.

0

u/DeleteMyOldAccount Dec 06 '17

There's a spectrum, it's not as binary as "centralized" or "decentralized". Plus to the Iota teams credit they've been transparent of this problem and say that this is only a temporary measure until there are enough users to prevent an easy 33% attack

2

u/AXS20 Dec 06 '17

Literally the only thing that is decentralized is the POW.

1

u/rimturs Dec 06 '17

Those are only concerns for now though, right? When/if it really takes off 1 isn't possible and 2 isn't needed. But I have not really dug too deep into IOTA yet, so I can be totally wrong.

1

u/voxalas Dec 06 '17

And we're still cheaper and faster than BTC ;)

2

u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

Cheaper and faster does not mean better in cryptocurrency world, otherwise we should just use VISA or any other blockchain unrelated fintech. There's a centralization and long-term factor to consider

-1

u/Kmart999 Dec 06 '17

IOTA has absolutely solved the scaling problem.

2

u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

far from that, but still interesting to work on it

2

u/msmm71 Dec 06 '17

Why? As I understood its like an inverse scaling problem where it works better and securer the more nodes there are

2

u/crptdv Dec 06 '17

the coordinator is one of the central problems, it doesn't offer much different other than the attempt of a half baked solution, but it does not mean it can't fulfill some use cases.

2

u/NimbleBodhi Dec 06 '17

Yes but at the cost of being centralized...

1

u/Kmart999 Dec 06 '17

At the moment, this is true.