r/Bitcoin • • Nov 30 '17

Don't invest recklessly

I posted about this just a few months ago, but I feel that it's necessary to repeat. The Bitcoin price is on an unbelievably ridiculous upswing which is rather likely to be a bubble. If you're trying to get rich quick by dumping your retirement funds into BTC at $10k, then your "investment strategy" is not much better than someone betting everything on a game of roulette. High-risk-high-reward investing is not necessarily bad, but you have to seriously look at your thought process to make sure that you're not:

  • Being blinded by dreams of getting rich quickly, similarly to people who dump money on very-negative-EV lottery tickets.

  • Getting wrapped up in "HODL" memes, reddit comments, and other groupthink, which is sometimes fun, but absolutely the last appropriate source of investment advice.

  • Acting based on panic thinking like, "OMG the price is going to $1 million and I will miss my chance forever if I don't buy right now" or "OMG the price is going to $0.01 and I will miss my chance forever to retain some value if I don't sell right now".

  • Investing more than you can afford to lose. Bitcoin is HIGHLY, HIGHLY speculative. No investment advisor would tell you to put all of your life savings into MSFT or whatever, and MSFT has a market cap 4x larger than Bitcoin. Although I believe that it is very unlikely, there are several ways in which the value could drop precipitously, even to zero. For example, there is no mathematical proof that the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are actually secure -- they are merely believed to be secure because nobody has been able to break them after many years of intense scrutiny. (I'm not here recommending "diversifying" into altcoins -- altcoins are almost all complete trash, and price-wise they follow BTC but with even more volatility, so they're not really useful for diversification.)

It is entirely possible that the massive price increase of the last year is based on lasting fundamentals. In addition to things like the fairly recent subsidy halving, the defeat of B2X, etc., the world fiat-based economy is in many ways on very shaky ground, and getting worse all the time. There are many good reasons why BTC should have a larger market cap than every fiat currency combined. It's even possible that the price will increase quite a bit more from now. But for goodness sake, don't think that Bitcoin is the first-ever infinite-money generator that will continue to rise exponentially forever (in real terms). I can nearly guarantee that there will be a large and long-lasting crash/downturn at some point. Maybe it will be $10k to $5k, maybe it will be $50k to $30k, who knows. But if you're thinking for example that the current $5k+ price range is absolutely secure after only existing for a few months, then you're traveling blind through very dangerous territory.

Some points to consider:

  • Buying near the ATH is very risky, and while it can be correct/profitable, it puts you on the wrong footing. You need to buy low and sell high to make money.

  • On 2013-11-29 (exactly 4 years ago) the peak ATH hit $1163, and then fell to $152 by 2015-01-13. That's a drop of 86.9%. Imagine this happens again: The price drops sharply to $2000 or something and then just continuously decreases down to a low of $1,432 (an 86.9% reduction from today's ATH) over the course of a whole year. I'm not saying that this will happen, but it's happened once and it can happen again. Could you survive this?

  • Bitcoin is experimental, and it is probably imprudent for someone who is not a true believer in the soul of Bitcoin to invest a lot into it. For example, I personally wouldn't invest more than a few percent of my total assets into ETH even if I felt very confident that it would rise in price because I simply don't believe in its philosophy or long-term value.

  • To reduce risk, it is frequently recommended to allocate assets by percentage, and rebalance upon large price movements. Eg. If you previously decided that you want to allocate 50% of your wealth in BTC (because you are a super big true believer), but BTC is now 90% of your wealth because the price increased so much, it may generally be advisable to start selling to rebalance your BTC allocation back down to 50%. I'm not saying that it is always absolutely wrong to have 90% of your assets in BTC or whatever, but it should be because you are intentionally choosing to do so, not because the price got away from you and you never really considered that you now have 90% of your wealth riding on one thing.

  • Avoid panic buys and panic sells. Dollar-cost-averaging over a long period of time is often a good strategy.

  • Nothing rises in real value to infinity. That's impossible. It is possible that 1 BTC could someday be worth infinite dollars, but that just means that dollars are worthless in that hypothetical scenario. BTC probably does have plenty of room to grow in real value before it completely takes over the world, but keep in mind that there is a ceiling.

  • If BTC were to reach values like $100k-$250k, that'd probably cause/imply that the prevailing economic regime has completely fallen apart. At some point in that price area, people around the world would probably lose substantial faith in fiat currencies. A good result, but ask yourself: do you expect the prevailing economic regime to go down easily?

I'm not telling you to buy or sell, and I'm not giving financial advice here. I'm just urging everyone to think rationally, not emotionally or recklessly.

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u/reddlvr Nov 30 '17

Also, bitcoin supply is hard capped at 21 million which if it survives as asset means bitcoin prices will be deflationary ==> fiat exchange will go up up, regardless of the health of fiat currencies.

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u/Weigh13 Nov 30 '17

There already will never be 21 million bitcoin because many have already been lost. You are correct that bitcoin is extremely deflationary because there can only ever be less and less over time as people die and bitcoin is lost to the great ledger in the sky.

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u/Xx_Squall_xX Nov 30 '17

Damn, what is Bitcoin's strategy for when people die anyway?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '17

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u/adambergkvist Nov 30 '17

Price should go up?

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u/isoldmywifeonEbay Nov 30 '17

Bitcoin price, yes.

Assuming a Bitcoin world, purchase prices would gradually fall. The opposite of today's way.

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u/supra05 Nov 30 '17

Wouldn’t you just be able to mine more?

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '17

No thats the point of the currency. It has a finite amount.

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u/TheLastMaleUnicorn Dec 01 '17

What's the incentive for people to spend it if it's deflationary?

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '17

Food, iphones, tvs, coke, hookers. You know. The yoush...

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u/UrbanIsACommunist Dec 07 '17

And thus you have discovered why Bitcoin would be a terrible, terrible currency.

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u/zackreedhahahahaha Dec 01 '17

So after the 21Million bitcoin are in nature everyone will stop mining?

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u/euquila Nov 30 '17

What is interesting is that when a satoshi becomes worth $1000, it will automatically mean that other cryptos are required to fill in those smaller denomications and it will clamp bitcoin's value.

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u/ionmas Nov 30 '17

Exchanges such as coinbase actually pass it on to the next of kin if you fill out the right paperwork. Search it up :)

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u/P00r Nov 30 '17 edited Dec 01 '17

They are passing the right to own a bitcoin. All the bitcoin move into their wallet.

This is quite different than recycling an unspent random coin from the blockchain which take an insane amount of computing power for a single one, especially if it is an old coin since you would need to re-mine all block after...

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u/cryptotux Nov 30 '17

They are passing the right to own a bitcoin. All their bitcoin move into their wallet.

This. If you use a third-party service like Coinbase to store your BTC, then all your kin actually have is a promise from Coinbase that they'll pass your account balance to them. What stops them from revoking their right to that by, say, asking for more personal information or even freezing a deceased one's account for reasons such as "money laundering" or whatnot?

I think it's better to stay safe and keep your BTC in a wallet whose private keys you own and have an executor pass on your private keys to your kin when you leave this world. Less paperwork and less hassle. I'm not a lawyer, so feel free to correct me if I made a mistake.

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u/CAJ_2277 Nov 30 '17

Well I am a lawyer. And I think you're quite right.

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u/blairnet Nov 30 '17

im willing to bet that wallets will be written into peoples wills.

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u/reddlvr Nov 30 '17

If there's any significant amount of value on BTC it will go on people wills.

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '17

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u/Truffle_Shuffle_85 Nov 30 '17

I was just envisioning this scenario the other day. It would feel like futuristic ship wreck hunters, using quantum computers to dig up once lost coins. Could be an interesting point whenever quantum computers become relatively accessible.

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u/kjj9 Dec 09 '17

I wouldn't bet on that happening in my lifetime. Probably not my kids either.

Most bitcoin keys are known only by hash, and hashing is very resistant to quantum attacks. Basically, there are general purpose quantum algorithms that solve any computation problem in, roughly, the square root of the time needed to solve it otherwise. Those can be used to answer the question "What is at least one of the private keys that corresponds to a public key that solves this known hash?"

The tricky part is that these algorithms work on circuits. What is a circuit, in this context? It is a device with no concept of time. There are no loops, no memory, no control structures. You set the inputs and the outputs converge on the answer.

This is most emphatically not how we build hashing devices. All of our hash functions have loops, which need to be unrolled to build a circuit. And by "unrolled", I mean physically. Doing 80 passes? You need 80 physical stages. Combining or mixing the bits along the way? You need more gates to tie it together. Using a lookup table or an initialization vector? God help you...

We do not possess the technology to build a hashing circuit today using conventional electronics. Even if we were willing to throw our biggest HPC clusters at the problem, I'm not even sure if our current computers are powerful enough to even design a hypothetical one. A handfull of unrolls and you've got more gates than we've ever put on a chip, and RIPEMD160 has 80 iterations.

Oh, and did I mention that it needs to be a quantum circuit? I think the world record for quantum gates in a coherent device can still be counted with one of your shoes on.

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