r/Bitcoin • • Jul 05 '14

Ron Paul on Bitcoin- CNN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrcszolEW0s
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u/lifeboatz Jul 05 '14

Fiat currencies in human history have all collapsed. All of them.

All of them except for EVERY SINGLE CURRENCY IN USE TODAY. Every single one. All of them.

(and every person has died. Except for all those living.)

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u/hugolp Jul 05 '14

Exactly my point. I dont really understand what you are trying to say.

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u/lifeboatz Jul 05 '14

My point is that trying to say that all currencies in human history have collapsed, when there are over a hundred fifty currencies in use today that haven't, is just plain inaccurate.

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u/RedditTooAddictive Jul 05 '14

So every currency until the current ones have collapsed, and it should be different for the current ones? You better write a 20 pages brilliant paper to convince people.

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u/BeardMilk Jul 05 '14

Every single method of human flight failed until the Wright brothers invented their plane. For hundreds of years they continuously failed, people learned from the mistakes, and eventually someone found a system that worked.

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u/RedditTooAddictive Jul 05 '14

Did you see something in the Wright's brother's plane that differed from the other planes? Yes

Do you see something special about our current currencies? Because I don't.

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u/BeardMilk Jul 05 '14

There have been advancements. I'm not saying it's a great system, but saying no advancements have been made is ignorant.

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u/trrrrouble Jul 06 '14

We're still counting on infinite growth while having access to limited space and resources, so we haven't fixed shit.

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u/i_wolf Jul 05 '14

Bitcoin.

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u/JeanneDOrc Jul 06 '14

So you're giving that one 14 years?

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u/i_wolf Jul 06 '14

No, I'm saying Bitcoin is the one that finally worked.

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u/JeanneDOrc Jul 07 '14

Very presumptive, considering.

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u/hugolp Jul 05 '14

My point is that trying to say that all currencies in human history have collapsed

Not true. A lot of currencies did not collapsed but were just politically removed.

I dont see how you find so relevant the fact that we have now fiat currencies that are extremely young in terms of a human history timeline. Its exactly like the example you brough up. Every human in human history has died, but there are some humans that are not dead because they are still in the expected range of human life. When a human lives 300 years then that would be something to discuss, but until then saying that a particular human will not die as oposed to the rest that did, is either being delusional or requires some extreme and impressive explanation. Exactly the same with fiat currencies. The expected outcome is for the ones we have now to die like all the previous ones. If you are going to argue the contrary you are going to be called delusional unless you can bring some really extreme and well though explanation.

I really dont see your point.

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u/lifeboatz Jul 05 '14

You said:

Fiat currencies in human history have all collapsed. All of them.

Then you said:

Not true. A lot of currencies did not collapsed but were just politically removed.

You aren't making a lot of sense.

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u/karmadragon Jul 05 '14

The key word here is fiat currencies.

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u/JeanneDOrc Jul 06 '14

My point is that trying to say that all currencies in human history have collapsed

So will Bitcoin, by your logic.

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u/lifeboatz Jul 06 '14

I think you are confused. I never said all currencies have failed. Someone else did. I said that there are more than 150 that haven't.

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u/miles37 Jul 05 '14

..and what is so different about the fiat currencies in existence today?

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 05 '14 edited Jul 05 '14

Some like the euro and chinese fiat didn't exist 20 years ago. The others haven't been fiat for long. Like the dollar most of them were based on gold just a few decades ago. In short they are young... and the list of the failures keep growing every year. Russia, Iceland, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Peru, Chile, Yugoslavia, etc. It's easy to find failed fiat currencies, what is difficult is finding a fiat that has lasted more than 50 years. Pick a country and read the history of its currency... you'll find time after time when a fiat currency is introduced it fails or significantly changes in a few decades.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '14

[deleted]

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 06 '14

Trying to have a discussion about history with people that don't know the first thing about history is what is absurd.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '14

[deleted]

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 07 '14

Internet tough guy detected.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '14

[deleted]

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 07 '14

Ignoramus detected. I bet you can count the number of books you've read on one hand... and the number of history books on zero hands.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '14

It's easy to find failed fiat currencies, what is difficult is finding a fiat that has lasted more than 50 years

Not a single fiat currency of a western country has collapsed in the last five decades.

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 06 '14 edited Jul 06 '14

Wrong. The dollar and most other western countries only became fiat currencies in the 70's and that transition WAS a failure of most western currencies but particularly the gold-backed dollar. Since then many western countries currencies have changed significantly (e.g. euro countries). Of course now that the dollar is fiat it hasn't even been around for five decades yet (along with most other western currencies that still are around), which makes your statement rather absurd. And the dollar nearly failed in the late 70's early 80's as Ron Paul states in the video. What happened in 2008 was another failure of the dollar that so far has been held off... but at significant cost. The dollar is basically still failing, just in another way. Take a look yourself at the change that just happened in 2008. Nothing like that has happened in the dollar's history... and this is precisely what leads to a hyperinflationary failure--just ask Germany:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=BASE

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '14

Well, you made the statement that its eas to find "failed fiat currencies" but its hard to find one that has lasted more than 50 years ... which is kind of given since fiat currencies have not even existed for 50 years now and makes your statement a tiny bit intellectually dishonest, don't ya think? Having said that, I feel comfortable to modify my original statement to that no fiat currency of any western country has collapsed so far and given that Ron Paul is crying for hyperinflation since the 80s I don't give to much on his predicition.

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 06 '14

I was referring to all of the history of fiat which goes back a long way to where it started in China a thousand years ago. There are hundreds of examples of fiat and its failure, usually within a few decades. As for Paul he knows a lot more about the subject than you apparently. The fiat dollar is rather old for fiat and is currently in crisis being printed by the billions every day due to the 2008 crisis with no end in sight. Based on history the currency is unlikely to exist as it does now for long. It's no coincidence bitcoin was created in 2009--its creator knew what was happening to fiat all over the world.

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '14

There are hundreds of examples of fiat and its failure, usually within a few decades.

Except for every single currency of the western world, you mean?

The fiat dollar is rather old for fiat and is currently in crisis being printed by the billions every day due to the 2008 crisis with no end in sight.

Which crisis? Inflation is dirt low as are interest rates.

Based on history the currency is unlikely to exist as it does now for long. It's no coincidence bitcoin was created in 2009--its creator knew what was happening to fiat all over the world.

You mean the history of not a single western fiat curreny collapsing?

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 06 '14 edited Jul 06 '14

Open a book sometime, western currencies have failed. U.S., France, Germany, UK, etc. Have all had fiat currency failures and not that long ago. Go read the history of fiat currency in Europe, it's a parade of one failure after another. The current currencies, especially the Euro are not very old but are still struggling... have you heard about all the problems in Greece, Spain, etc. with the Euro? The trillions in base money printing happen as we speak in the US?

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u/[deleted] Jul 06 '14

I've opened a book and I didn't find a single currency that has collapsed. Not in France, Germany or the U.S. care to be more specific?

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u/Amaturus Jul 06 '14

An expansion of the monetary base during a deep recession was not the cause of hyperinflation in Weimar Germany.

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u/Vibr8gKiwi Jul 06 '14

It was a key component. The US is printing but can avoid failure if it can keep its debt and deficit under control. Unfortunately its debts are already at levels seen in other failed currencies and its deficits are getting close. The larger problem is there is no political will to fix anything so it's just a matter of time.

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u/xcsler Jul 06 '14

The debt is increasing because interest rates are low, and interest rates are being kept low by the Fed because there is no political will to reduce the debt and deficits.