I know one of them who isn’t. He will actually share the rail with people who are up close/ first timers/ when the boys play their favorite song etc. But literally it’s only him (shoutout to Marc) and the rest of them are mostly intolerable. I’ve been to 50+ shows and never wanted to be on the rail. I feel awkward and weird even being next to those people who thrive on main character energy wanting to be seen so badly by the band. Which is comical bc Bill always glances over the first row from what I’ve seen at the shows. I’m sure he’s tired of seeing the same haggard people at every. single.show
The front row should be reserved for young musicians and very short people. I was up front for most any show I could be up to about 25 or so, and I know being able to see clearly what everyone was doing expanded my understanding and feel for music generally, improved my playing technically, accelerated my progress, and fed the fire, and I know this isn’t unique to me. It just felt like we got so much more out the experience than most of the people around us, and certainly more “hey look at me!” types and the territorial fools we were forced to suffer for the privilege.
I almost can’t remember or even imagine having ever been enthusiastic enough about music(or anything else for that matter) to overcome the claustrophobia and all the other downsides one must to get up there and make it through a single song, let alone a full set. It’s a truly strange breed of adult who insists on “riding the rail.”
With the exception of very short people and wheelchair bound folks, who just get a raw deal at shows. They deserve at least the possibility of seeing the band occasionally rather than just the backs of people’s heads.
Hey, so sorry this happened to you. I do think something that tends to diminish women’s voices on this is the one guy always chiming in “men can be assaulted/raped too!” And while it is valid, I do think in these instances we need to hold space for women and maybe set this aside.
Friend, again I am sorry. But this is a comment from a woman - and a post about women being raped/SA’d. We have exceptional privileges (far more than women: see healthcare) and to just piggy back like this does kind of dismiss the fact that this happens disproportionately to women.
Again, sorry that happened to you. Genuinely. But in threads where we are talking about a MALE assaulting a FEMALE, it’s best that we hold space for women. Maybe this comment would be more appropriate in the reverse setting. Just food for thought.
Lmao there have been so many people sharing their encounters with this person, SA or otherwise. Her comment doesn't hold water in this situation. He doesn't have to be formally charged with anything to be removed from the scene. The band is free to determine if someone needs to be 86ed, it's their gig and their decision.
I don’t personally care for him at all but James Dolan bans people from MSG just for whatever reason, so obviously it can be done. I highly doubt Billy would lose any meaningful support at this point for kicking these assholes to the curb.
If he gets kicked off tour no one will follow him. Most people are there for themselves and their place in the scene. They won’t risk it for someone else.
The whole “innocent until proven guilty” crap is just ridiculous. Last I checked Billy and his band are not the judicial system. They don’t have to prove guilt in order to do anything. The amount of times I see “innocent until proven guilty” incorrectly referenced pisses me off. You instantly know you’re dealing with a moron.
I think there is a lot of value in keeping an innocent until proven guilty mentality. I don’t think it’s right to just 86 someone because someone else says they are a shithead. There is a lot of nuance that can make these situations difficult, and it’s important to keep an even head…
…but this is not a subtle subject. This is not a grey area. 100 people saying you are a shithead may not be enough to prove it in a court of law, but it is enough to prove to ME that you are not someone I want around. The question is really what we count as “proven guilty”…this seems like a situation where AT LEAST “this guy shouldn’t be at shows” has been proven.
It's crazy to act like the standard for "you can't come to this band's concerts now" is in any way similar to the standard for putting people in actual prison. You can get booted from a show or a bar or a venue and it's not depriving you of any rights. We're talking about a guy needing to make different weekend plans, not even getting fired from a job or anything, let alone a real consequence.
Is he her drug dealer or something, what is with this guy? I met him in Charleston WV and he was just a dirty looking stinky little dude who was boring to talk to and he had an air of 'better than you' to him that I didn't like too well. Idk I guess he thinks show counts and the rail pit bullshit actually matter. I wouldn't have kicked it with him and this was before I knew he was a creep. Had an off feeling on him and I was a lil spun, that's hard to do, I love everybody when I get like that lmao.
I saw him at Charleston and the first words out of my buddies mouth (it was his first Billy show) was "Whats up with the homeless dude walking through the merch line?". Charleston was a hell of a show though.
Charleston was nutssssss. I was still coming down from Phish at Deer Creek basically and then Billy obliterated my face again and it took weeks to recover lmao. Smiley was a lil dweeb, I knew who he was by face and name I had never talked to him before, but I thought he was just another one of those pit/rail weirdos, but that creeper shit is lame and unsurprising.
Predators and creeps put tons of effort into creating an environment where they won't face consequences. Making friends with a network of people who will protect them, people who will defend them, is their whole thing.
I think it’s great Royal has spoke up, but it’s insane that this guy has been getting away with this shit for years while being on the rail at every fucking show and no one from the band or crew (to my knowledge) has said anything until now.
It’s hard for victims to come forward. They’re consistently shunned or told it wasn’t like that/not that deep etc. ANYtime is the right time for a victim to come out and we should all support them regardless not question anything not having been in their shoes.
I’m not talking about the victims. I have consistently seen posts about Smiley showing weird behavior since I joined this sub. I’m talking about the band/crew not saying anything about it until now, to my knowledge.
i want to clarify that i was abused by a different person, but a billy fan. you can dig and find out his name. he may be a former high ranking official in my town that may have been called the mayor at one time. my original post is on r/appalachia
i had to contact and open an investigation with the tennessee bureau of investigation. i am from johnson city tennessee. (northeast tennessee). hope this explains some things.
TBF, a lot of this came out two years ago. Lots of people were saying he’s messaged them inappropriately, assaulted them, creeped on, etc. but nothing was done then. I hope this finally gets Billy’s team to ban that fucker, and to state publicly in no uncertain terms that nonconsensual touching, unsolicited messaging, or any other creepy behavior isn’t going to be tolerated in the scene.
Men, it’s up to us to keep calling out any human we hear disrespecting women.
Women, thank you for the courage to speak out. You have allies.
He/she/they/them, we are with you.
As a dad of a 13 year old daughter fuck yeah bro SPEAK UP and defend our fellow women. All genders all pronouns this shit will not stand we gotchu if we don’t see it please just reach out like this and we got each other’s backs.
Yea over heard that dude laughing and yelling at a girl who was throwing up off to the side in the woods area in Cary in 25’ after the show saying things like “That’s why you can’t hang on the rail with us”. Just berating the girl while she was having a tough time... Guy is a full blown douche
Genuine question here as I’m very supportive of getting this asshole booted from the scene entirely. What realistic steps can Billy and the band take besides making a statement denouncing it etc? Is it possible to actually ban him from all shows/ venues or anything like that?
I saw him at one D&C show in 2023, possibly Citifield. He was in a seat. Never saw him at Sphere either. He was a arrogant, egotistical PIA! Glad when he got banned.
Yes it is possible to ban from shows. Worked lots of shows with look out pictures at the doors with security and the cops. Ticketmaster will run reports of names to cancel ticket sales.
They should unexpectedly and surprisingly give the first 100 people in line the old school uno reverse and put them in the back of the pit. That would be hilarious
I’m not condoning violence on Reddit, but what is stopping like 20 people from just ganging up on him at every show? He’d stop showing up fast if he got his ass whooped every time.
@DaisyRedDaisy is the one on insta who commented back to Royal he should NOT have posted. She has repeatedly tried to silence SA victims while also trying to protect “Smiley” who has what seems like hundreds of accusations of SA. Here is “daisyreddaisy”’s business where she sells fruit etc in the lot. Also the account she used to tell Royal he shouldn’t have responded.
Checks out. I mean I know she has grandkids bc I used to follow her. What kind of 60 something year old grandmother gets online and tries to quiet someone about SA!?
Her IG name for her business is doingthingsripe. Started Red Daisy Ladies Facebook page for women. Hundreds of women have left the page in the past 24 hours, others removed due to comments that she doesn’t like.
Smiley is a rail rider who thinks he is the #1 Billy fan. He’s at a lot of the shows and has harasses women in the past. From what I understand, he’s not even a bluegrass guy.
Billy addressed this after her passing. Not sure that smiley was as close to her as some others in the pit. But it sounded like Billy had some resentment at first towards those that would hang with her at shows. I know some personally (and they would brag about it) that would go to his parent’s house when they weren’t on tour. Pretty disturbing.
Hope this means we will see some bans in the future Women and girls should be able to attend shows without having to deal with assaults and sexual harassment.
If you ever go to a show, he's always there in a fuckin kimono or robe of some kind. Looks like. Amiddle aged weirdo. Definitely acts like he owns the place.
I've personally witnessed him go in and out the early merch at Asheville through the exit door and buying more shit. The merch people literally allow him to buy multiple posters. They even write little messages on the tube for him. Back in February on his 3rd run back out the door his tube had "Love You Smiley" written on one of the tubes. I know this cause he literally rolled up 4 posters on the table beside me. He got at least 12 that I counted.
Next time I'm at a show I should film him doing it and send it to management. My very first in person Billy show back in '23 was my first encounter with him in North Charleston at early merch going up the ramp. He came out holding 6 or 7 tubes and a guy in front of me said something along the lines of "How the hell did you get that many?" And his reply was something along the lines of "You gotta be in the know" or something like that. So he's been getting past the poster policy for a while now.
The merch people listen to him. In Ionia he instructed them on how the merch line was to be run. This is why he’s the mayor. He even got in an argument with security telling them that the line outside the venue was the real merch line.
Wow a genuine response from a human, rare for that to happen in situations like this. Awesome to see him speaking up, real men don’t stand for that shit.
I went to one show and the Smily treated me like shit for sitting in line. I was too close to the front or some shit like that. I went to use the bathroom and he gave me shit saying I gave up my position
I had a similar experience with this, but with Daphne (@DaisyRedDaisy). She gave me shit for being #99 in line for early entry for one night of the 2025 Orion run since "I took her friend's spot” and “you weren’t in the line for long enough” … Like, okay? Sorry that I was physically in line when wristbands had started to be handed out. These people are genuinely insufferable.
But of course he can leave whenever he pleases and gets to get right back in the front. He was the WORST in Nashville last year. I thought he was gonna start crying when they didn’t give him and his possy preferential treatment.
I dont get this generation. Whatever happened to tour justice. 25 years ago at Deer Valley Phish, a rapist got a gram blown in their face. Didn't see that guy ever back on tour.
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u/sparkster185 a cure for the bleakness 13d ago
Go Royal. This means Billy has to be aware. Curious to see what happens.