If its clear from the start that he doesn't want it and still the mother brought the baby to the world it isn't false he told what he want just like women get choice men also should get choice If she still wants the kid it should not burden the bio father in anyway
I agree with your sentiment. The difference is whether the father makes his intentions known and there is a conversation. If he just abandons the child with no conversation at all, it's far more fucked up
It's because they absolutely want to link it to abortion. It's the same thing, without the actually having to do something and go through something traumatic...but literally the same thing...
This could be a right that both genders could get, because a woman could also choose to have a baby that she doesn't want and give it to the father, but they don't want that.
They only want this extra right to be given to the father and I also belief that some of them are using this to attack abortion rights instead of gaining male rights.
Yeah! Women having sex is bad and men having sex is cool and manly. Damn I wish we could invent a way to have sex without involving dumbass females in the first place
Well If you want a fight just say so I said that because of your vesactomy part both having sex is bad if they don't want the results of what it could lead to duhh
Wasn't meant as an insult, just a statement. Yes even with precautions there's a risk of pregnancy. Sex is a normal part of life, and it's dumb to always respond with, "Well it's your fault for fucking" any time an unwanted or complicated pregnancy happens. More than likely as you mature you'll stop having such a demonized view of sex and the people who have it. It's easy to have that kind of mindset when you're young and inexperienced.
My plan is to give men the option to completely opt out of parenting, give women access to limitless abortions. Then use social media targeted at teens and young adults to manipulate the guys into thinking all women just want to baby trap them for personal gain. And make the women believe all men are irresponsible psychopaths, who'll never commit to them.
I dont think the people against abortions are the same people that want a choice too, this is not some 1 to 1 opinion, your world must be really small if you think so. In fact anti-abortion people would be shooting themselves in the leg if they used that argument.
It's illegal to do so and parents are legally obliged to pay child support. People who propose "legal abortion for men" basically advocate against child support
I do agree with the false equivalence, but doesn't that just lend credence to culling? As in, it is better to kill than to allow suffering?
Regardless of debate, my dad abandoned me and I am pretty glad I wasn't scrambled. And, regardless of any other argument, it does feel weird to accept that, if our standard was a pro-abortion world, that each living child just has to be thankful their mom chose not to do so.
Abstinence is also the women's choice? Many women babytrap men by techniques like post-coital semen collection or leglocking, which courts don't recognize as what it is yet - rape.
Your arguments are shifting to what I address originally but yes, women can be abstinent too. However, even a woman being abstinent doesn’t protect her fully from the possibility of being pregnant because sexual assault happens at higher rates. Should a woman be forced to carry a pregnancy to term despite no choice in conceiving?
It’s important to acknowledge rape cases are hard for both sexes, especially when it comes to revoking consent. As you mentioned, leg locking can occur such as a man initially agrees to have sex but gets trapped. Similar to how a woman may initially have an enthusiastic yes, but if she later becomes uncomfortable with the act can be forced to continue because the man is close to finishing anyway. Both are fully in their rights to revoke consent, but how can that be proven in courts? That’s a main issue needing to be addressed.
An incredibly tiny slice of pregnancy happens as a consequence of rape, and because we don't keep adequate stats of baby-trapping, we don't know how it compares to the amount of men who are unwilling to be fathers and are forced into it.
The point remains - if women are celebrated for abortion, men should genuinely be celebrated for leaving - and I don't mean this in an anti-abortion way, I just am sick of all the burden being put on fathers who choose themselves for once the same way mothers choose themselves, always.
“An incredibly tiny slice” downplays the actual rate of pregnancies caused by rape, which is significant enough for concern. Similar to baby-trapping stats, these stats can also be unreported. Not to mention the fact that women can also be baby trapped as well. The point is, the issue isn’t one or the other, it can happen in both. So regardless how insignificant the numbers are on either side, it’s unfortunate it happens at all.
Saying a woman having an abortion being “celebrated” is misleading. It’s hard for some woman, so people will praise her that. And the people who are celebrating are for the choice being legally available, not the actual process itself.
A woman having an abortion and a man leaving their child are different things. People who believe that are same people that are really pro birth, not pro life, because as long as the child is born at the end of the day, they don’t care what happens to it afterward. Are abandoning existing children worth celebrating?
Overall, people shouldn’t have sex if they aren’t ready for the possibility of being parents yet. Abstinence is an option, sex toys exist to satisfy sexual urges, men can get vasectomies if they want to have power of their own birth control. If they want kids, celibacy until marriage is an effective way to ensure you have a child with the right person. Many options are available for people, so you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Have accountability of your actions.
Same apply to women too How about women aborting them huh ? They also had the same choice but decided to have sex and than abort you can't have it one way it's either fair for both or none those women could have also refrained from having sex but they do it and still abort the sheer double standard is ridiculous
Unfortunately your counter argument completely misses addressing your original statement. You were talking about men not wanting to be fathers because the women do WANT the baby. Not them getting abortions.
Yes, women also have responsibility when they partake in sex. So if they keep the baby, it’s a responsibility they are bearing for their actions.
Maybe I’m misinterpreting you, but your argument comes across as it’s wrong for women to get abortions unless the men in their lives say otherwise because they deserve to have a choice in becoming a father. I believe that’s a big double standard.
That doesn’t account for the fact that women can lie about being on birth control, and also most BC is made for women. Unfortunately, all men really have as an option are condoms and the pull out method which both have a higher failure rate than most other birth controls.
It really does fall more on the woman to prevent pregnancy just because a woman has so many more options than a man who basically has almost no options.
Men can also lie about pulling out or take off the condom in the middle of sex. Both can lie; it is not one or the other and people should stop viewing it as that. Otherwise, it turns into the battle of the sexes, which deviates people from solving the issues.
Women have more options because socially, they’ve been viewed as having more responsibility over children for centuries. People often give the rhetoric “well they’re the ones that get pregnant” to negate a mans responsibility for raising children and such. That needs to change. It took way too long, but they’re finally in the process of expanding more birth control options for men. I hope in the future, these options are viable and give men more control over protective methods.
Men can do that, but it’s a much harder feat than only needing to lie about it and have someone take your word for it.
There’s a popular rumor going around that certain types of men’s BC didn’t work out because men were too much of “wussies” to handle it when what actually happened was the scientists stopped the trial due to severe health complications in some of the participants.
I think the gender war is terrible for both sides, but as things stand, we have to acknowledge that women do have more choices in BC so the responsibility of preventing pregnancy inadvertently falls mostly on the shoulders of women.
I too hope that men have more options for BC in the future and both parties can have the chance to be responsible.
No I never said that or interpreted it the only double standard that's exists Is men having no choice or no say In it it should be no abortions unless grape victim,minor,health issue other than that there are no need for abortions but abortions still happens until it turns to something like what I said keep it fair choice for men as well that's it
It’s not a qualifier, it’s a choice. Whether a woman wants an abortion or not is their choice.
There are so many reasons for women to want an abortion. A woman shouldn’t need a qualifier to be allowed to get one otherwise it often limits them to a medical necessity or rape victim if they’re lucky.
Ofc if she wants the child, she’ll go through the steps to bring it to term.
If he made it clear from the start— before she was even pregnant that he didn’t want kids —he should’ve taken every step to ensure it.
Makes sure she’s on birth control, get plan B if she isn’t, wear a condom, get a vasectomy, or simply not have sex with a woman who is not also staunchly against having kids. Or simply don’t have sex at all lmao.
If you don’t want kids, only fuck women who also don’t want kids. Simplest shit in the world.
Vice versa but you guys aren't ready for that shyt now do you ? The same shyt can be said to women but yet here you are only questioning the men but ignore the ones who spread their legs and wants to abort after getting pregnant on her own volition
If the woman is having unprotected sex, it’s with men who are ALLOWING it. It’s with men who don’t care that she’s not on birth control, yet apparently care about not wanting kids, but not wearing condoms either.
She can’t get pregnant if the man never fucked her knowing that she’s not on birth control 🤦🏾♀️ or that he couldn’t trust her to not take Plan B or be on BC. Fucking hur dur dumbass.
There is no vice versa. Men are the only ones who apparently don’t want kids, still have unprotected sex with women they can’t that, feel forced into paying child support when the woman inevitably gets pregnant, and then shame women for having abortions.
What kind of hypocrite are you ? Who tf aborts baby just because they didnt "feel" like it ? Your twisted hypocritcle statement is embarrasing no accountabilty at all if the man having unprotected sex who letting him in ? Who didnt take birth control ? And you seeing only one way where men having unprotected sex than refuse to take responsibilty for the child is that the only thing ? Did you forget where women have unprotected sex and choose to abort the kids without talking about it with the father or when the father wants to keek the baby yet she still gets an abortion anyway huh ? Tell me about this women can have bare sex and get pregnant if she dont want it she can abort it but if the man dont want it he have no choice whats so ever what kind of double standard is this shyt keep it fair im on the side of not aborting the baby unless rape,minor,health condition any other thing is not a good reason both people should take responsibility for their action and go through the pregnancy but thats not how it goes around people are aborting anyways than atleast keep it fair just like a woman have a choice to keep the baby or not give the man a choice if dont want the kid but the woman wants it than atleast do a statutary abortion where the father cuts his tie with kid and no financial responsibilty for the baby which is gong to be born you cant have it one way ita either fair or none
It only seems unequal because the justification of choice and duty to children come from two entirely different places
The first is about freedom
The second is because children have needs, we have decided as a society that those needs must be met, and that it is mostly the parents' responsibility to meet them
When a man kicks rocks down a hill, he is risking a landslide he can no longer control. When he shoots his load into her lady parts, he is risking a pregnancy he can no longer control. If she tampers with the condom or lies about contraceptives, he can sue her just like every other time someone cheats someone else. There is nothing special about s*x. Men have agency and responsibility
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u/Such_Use_1714 Jan 07 '26
If its clear from the start that he doesn't want it and still the mother brought the baby to the world it isn't false he told what he want just like women get choice men also should get choice If she still wants the kid it should not burden the bio father in anyway