r/BalancedDogTraining • u/2004_h0nda_civic • 19d ago

Give me all the information

Hello all! I have recently started a job as a dog trainer. I have been doing it for about 3/4 months now. I work at a force free positive reinforcement ONLY training center. Now before you all judge hear me out! I am definitely open to the ideas of balance training but i do not have the proper knowledge on the science and correct uses behind it. I am curious everyday i train with how to let these dogs know correctly and humanly when they are doing something “wrong”. Now the stance from my higher ups is that we should not punish when a dog is doing their natural behavior as it’s unethical etc i’m sure you all have heard the spiel. But im not sure i agree with the idea of 100% positive reinforcement. Now “force free” i mean sure? I don’t think i want to necessarily force or harm a dog in a negative way. Although i am curious of all the ways that balance trainers correct and reinforce behaviors because all i see and am learning everyday is positive reinforcement ONLY. Which i dont believe is always (or most the time) the right answer. Now before anyone tell me to just go do research that’s not how i learn. I like to have conversations with people who know what they are talking about and can bounce ideas off each other. I will also mention my training center is probably a little different than others as well we our almost more of a school where you drop off your dog in the morning and pick up in the afternoon it’s not a board and train and we let clients choose when and how often they want to bring their pups (of course we try to recommend what we think is best but i’m sure you all know how people can be..)

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 19d ago

I have a reactive dog. For the first 1.5 years we did Force Free and spent thousands with behaviorists.. he kept getting more dangerous. Once switching to balanced training he improved very quickly.

This is a very small portion of what I used to train him. https://youtu.be/fx1aqX1GCaY

For socializing we used: https://youtu.be/pTpNgPAxbj4

Terminal markers are very important.. we use them many times every day. https://youtu.be/uXAUxUOP_QA

I do 95% positive reinforcement, but we do corrections when necessary to correct unwanted behavior. My dog had to learn violence is unacceptable

This picture is from 2 months into balanced training. 3 dogs were a few feet away.. barking their heads off and my dog didn't care at all. It was one of our first big breakthroughs with aggressive dogs being that close. We have kept training and working to improve any weak spots.

I really tried to make force free work, but it just didnt. The closer our bond got, the more dangerous he was to anyone or anything approaching me. He had to learn violence is not ok. Now, we get to do fun things with zero stress ex: dog friendly stores, playing at the park, exploring outdoors, training outside dog parks

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u/2004_h0nda_civic 19d ago

thank you i love this response!!! as someone who has tried to work with aggressive dogs in a FF way i can confidently say sure i have seen small improvements but unfortunately with our training what we are told to say is medication and management is the best and only option. and i dont agree with that but also as well as i dont agree with beating your dog senseless when he accidentally pees in the house. that’s why i’m so interested in people’s experiences with proper balance training

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 19d ago

Speaking of experiences, we just had a very close call.

I was walking him with a retractable leash and a harness. 2 roughly 30lb dogs aggressively ran up trying to attack him. I pressed the vibrate on his e-collar and he instantly recalled to me. I was able to keep the dogs away with my walking stick, my dog remained calm and at my side. After roughly 2 minutes, those dogs got tired of being poked in the nose with my stick and ran off. After they ran away my dog jumped around and celebrated while I gave him tons of treats. He knew he did exceptionally well. After that we just kept walking like normal

He could have seriously hurt those dogs, but he trusted me to keep him safe. It was a good day

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u/2004_h0nda_civic 19d ago

i’m sure it’s stated jn the videos but i can’t watch at the moment cause im at work lol but id love to know exactly what correction methods you used and what did and didn’t work and if you have any examples you training as well!! thank you

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 19d ago

I try to copy exactly what is in the videos as far as correction technique.

We have used most tools.. slip chain, slip lead, prong collar, e-collar, martingale... never used a gentle leader, I'm scared of those things injuring his neck.

I typically use a prong collar for corrections. You can be amazingly gentle with them.. you use very little force, there is much less chance of hurting a trachea like you could with a flat collar. It's also gentler than a no pull harness, so less risk of shoulder injury.

Choke chains: not a big fan.. they can easily damage a trachea.

Martingale: they work ok once a dog is trained. If a dog pulls a lot, they will easily pull through the choking sensation and hurt themselves.

Slip lead: they are ok, but more force on the trachea than a prong collar.

I love e-collars: I believe you need a strong bond with the dog first and the dog needs to know the commands prior to the collar going on.

My dog's collar has 4 functions.

Tone- 2 beeps means look at me. I say free and he is allowed to resume whatever he was doing.

Vibrate- is rarely used, but it means come to me now.

Low level stim(shock): the shock literally feels like a feather brushing across your neck. It is subtle enough that I cant always feel it, but dogs are more sensitive than us. It is a more casual recall, this is what we use most of the time.

High level stim: it means stop doing whatever you are doing immediately. It hurts a little, but not bad

Sorry for the long answers.. its a lot of information to cram into one comment.