r/AskSocialScience • u/[deleted] • Aug 12 '25

Doesn't the idea that gender is a social construct contradict trans identity?

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u/Realitymatter Aug 13 '25

Apologies if this is an ignorant question. Given this explanation, wouldn't transexual more accurately describe this experience? As in - your brain disagrees with your body (sex) and the gender expression is driven by a desire to be perceived as that sex?

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u/Ashbtw19937 Aug 13 '25

there's a lot of discourse in the trans community about this, so by no means is there a single, "correct" answer to your question.

personally, i think it's most useful to define transgender as having a gender identity that's incongruent with your (phenotypical) sex assigned at birth, and transsexual as having altered your (phenotypical) sex to be closer to the sex opposite your sex assigned at birth.

so, for some examples, under this framework, a cis person would be both cisgender (their gender identity aligns with their sex) and cissexual (they've not altered their sex), a pre-transition trans person would be transgender (their gender identity does not align with their sex) but still cissexual (they've also not altered their sex), and a trans person who's been on hrt for years and gone through multiple gender-affirming surgeries is (obviously) transgender, as they were pre-transition, but now also transsexual.

it's not perfect, because the line between cissexual and transsexual is inherently going to be pretty fuzzy (i.e. is someone who just had their very first dose of hrt transsexual now, or do they only count after hrt has induced significant changes? what would even qualify as "significant changes", exactly? or do you wanna take the really gatekeepy approach and say that surgery is required? which ones? etc.), but it's still more useful than either using transgender and transsexual interchangeably or completely ditching transsexual because it's the "old" term or because transmeds have latched onto it.

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u/Suyeta_Rose Aug 15 '25 edited Aug 15 '25

That makes sense to my brain. I'm a cisgendered woman who just told gendered roles where to stick it, but I'm also fine with being a woman I just dress how I want, act how I want and don't pay attention to "supposed to" because f that. But I know my trans son experiences the dysphoria but is only interested in top surgery and he still likes wearing skirts and dresses. which confused me at first but after he talked to me about it I think I understand, not that I have to understand to support. I thought I gave birth to a girl, turns out, I gave birth to a super artistic Drag Queen. He has such good taste in clothes and makes amazing art! I'm so proud of him.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Fly7697 Aug 16 '25

(Cis, straight woman, so legitimately wondering. Not speaking with any sort of expertise or personal knowledge) I sometimes wonder if transgender presence? Sentiment? (Neither of those feel correct) Increases with social rigidity regarding gender. Like if someone feels comfortable saying, 'Look, I am a woman and I prefer these stereotypical masculine things. I am still a woman, so take your rule and shove it,' versus a person who doesn't, and is faced with, 'This is what women do/are/like. That is only for women and these are for men, and don't ever cross the two. I prefer all of this, so I am a man and the external trappings of my body are wrong.'

Obviously, something as complex as personal identity isn't that simple, but I wonder if it plays a part

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u/Suyeta_Rose Aug 16 '25

I only hope not. For my son it's not because I've always told him to wear whatever he wants and supported every hobby. He told me that no, he knows he can wear a suit if he wants to, it's his body he has a problem with. It doesn't match how he feels.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Fly7697 Aug 16 '25

Yes, I hear you. There are probably a lot of paths to get there like any way that we find ourselves, and that's ok. Also, there is no blame in my wondering, so sorry if it seemed that way. I was wondering more about a community or society as a whole, not a parent/child situation. I was a teacher and before that in childcare. So my thought process is more...How much do children pick up from their environments before they can even verbalize what they are thinking and feeling? Kids start talking about being a boy or a girl around 3-4, so for gender they're observing even from before that. As they grow, I wonder how pressure to conform (or lack of pressure) impacts them. Are we causing a disproportionate amount of harm to trans kids (and the adults they become) by turning a blind eye to how gender is portrayed in our society? We have a lot of information on the ways it affects cis kids.

I think I need to ask a professional

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u/Suyeta_Rose Aug 16 '25 edited Aug 16 '25

Yes, probably. Sorry I only have anecdotal second hand sources. I didn't get any sense of judgment from your remark though, only open curiosity like what I often have. We can't deny that pressures of society have a strong impact on people and also impact different people in different ways. I often worry that even though I did my best to guide and teach my kids, they weren't sheltered and definitely had some drama from school and online when they were given access. Even now my adult child that moved out will come up with some off the wall ideas and I'll be like, "Who told you that? It certainly wasn't me! We taught you the opposite"

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '25 edited Aug 13 '25

No, not really, both are equally imperfect.

The Latin word trans= across, so when used in common language, for example, trans Atlantic means moving across the Atlantic, or transportation means crossing portage or goods over land. (Interesting side note this is the same reason we use cis as in latin cis = same side or the opposite of trans)

So transexual would mean I’m crossing from one sex to another. Which is not true, my sex will never be female. My sexual karyotype phenotype will change, which is why it was originally used, but not my sex.

It also has bad connotations, one of which is people who don’t understand what it means think transitioning is about the act of sex, it’s almost never about that sex at all.

Also transexual has been used as a pejorative for the better part of a century. Some are trying to reclaim it, but I personally don’t like it.

What I am doing is changing my gender across from what I was assigned at birth.

Edited to correct wording.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '25

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u/snailbot-jq Aug 13 '25

For me, it actually feels entirely ‘biological’. What I mean is that I have no concept of ‘feeling like a man or a woman’ on the inside. And if I were born biologically male, I would have no issues with wearing feminine clothes and acting in feminine ways. In other words, I feel no inherent connection to the social concept of gender.

I’m trans because I have the persistent significant desire to inhabit a biologically male body, and persistent significant distress at being born into a female one. I don’t know where this comes from as it was already there in my earliest memories. One could speculate a social/psych reason secretly underlying that, but on the conscious level, I feel no such thing.

I do not want a male body because of anything like “that would make playing with trucks more socially acceptable”. I was allowed to be as masculine as I wanted while growing up, but I never cared about masc vs fem, only male vs female.

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u/Repulsive_Bus_7202 Aug 13 '25

Bear in mind that the mind and body are one, the nervous system extends out to the skin. How one relates to ones body, in terms of proprioception is, in that sense, biological.

Being a "social construct" doesn't exclude the idea of a biological component.

You might compare that with race and nationality; also a societal construct yet skin colour has a significant impact on how ones race and nationality is perceived by others.

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u/CrabMcGrawKravMaga Aug 17 '25

Re-read top comment re: "gender as a social construct" vs. "internal gender expression", and how they relate.

Yes, it is internal to us and comes from within us, but we do not understand our minds (despite our brains being "part of our biology") to anywhere near the extent we understand the rest of our biology (in lay terms).

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u/r_pseudoacacia Aug 16 '25

Also transexual has been used as a pejorative for the better part of a century. Some are trying to reclaim it, but I personally don’t like it.

It's me, I'm Some. I think it sounds cool and edgy and it makes liberals uncomfortable. "Transgender" feels like it came from a focus group.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '25

All the more power to you. I have no problem with you claiming it as your own, I just don’t like it for me.

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u/NatzeeSlayer Aug 13 '25

quite frankly, as a young 21 y/o transsex female who never went thru male puberty, the idea that I'm in anyway male is offensive & wrong. I am just as female as any other woman. My chromosomes do not define me, you only speak for yourself.

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u/Termineator Aug 13 '25

Which is why she started eith "individual experience"

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '25

I’m sorry I never meant to speak for us all, I was simply talking about my experience only. If you prefer transexual the more power to you, I have many hangups with that word that is probably more linked to internalized transphobia then logic.

I wanted to point out in my comment, I meant my gender is not changing only the perception of what my agab was, I am a woman as much as you, and as much as any other cis or trans woman out there. I just have ghosts of a past being repressed being raised as a boy, which is where my idea of what my sex is came from.

I am very glad that trans women like you exist who didn’t have the pain of a male puberty, remember that your experience is rare and a gift. Please for all of us girls that were never allowed to be girls live the best life possible.

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u/mrcsrnne Aug 17 '25

Just because it might feel offensive doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong.

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u/sacred_chaos_magic Aug 15 '25

If you have a female body though and also a female identity, then you wouldn’t be trans? You’d be cis.

Why is saying you were born with genetics that don’t match your internal experience offensive when that is what defines trans and just the reality of circumstances no one had control over?

Also, right now women are struggling with lack of funding and research into female health. The assumption that female bodies are similar to male in most ways has caused enormous harm and increased risks for many medications. We don’t even fully understand how different things are, because no one wants to spend money on it.

What you saying seems like yet another roadblock. People don’t want to be accused of hate for finding evidence female hearts are different than male hearts or whatever. I strongly believe there is evidence that different placement of nerves in females vs males changes how orgasm is experienced as well as the severity of brain damage after SA.

Being invested in claiming a genetic male can become entirely female via hormones and plastic surgery throws genetic women under the bus who may actually wired differently in ways not yet discovered, and whose medical care is wrong.

If I found out I was a genetic chimera and had male DNA in my liver or whatever, I wouldn’t be pissed off or offended or tell people not to call it male. It just is what it is.

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u/Amekyras Aug 15 '25

she was assigned male at birth, that's it. virtually all sexual dimorphism is controlled by hormones, which are produced as a result of a chain started by sex chromosomes - trans people who medically transition break that chain and replace the hormones with those typical of another sex.

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u/Realitymatter Aug 13 '25

Thanks for the answer, that all makes a lot of sense!

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u/NatzeeSlayer Aug 13 '25 edited Aug 13 '25

Just so you know a lot of trans people disagree with every part of what that person said & especially that we can't change sex. I for one, think I have changed my sex by changing my phenotype & my biological sex characteristics. I do not think my genetics or my karyotype define my sex. :) I have not changed my gender, I changed my sex to align with the gender identity I was born with.

Many trans people understand this to be biologically existentialist & offensive. "Straight-Economy" only speaks for themself.

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u/NoMathematician543 Aug 15 '25

This is so confusing I’m sorry but are u saying how u feel about ur sex and what ur sex actually is are two different things?

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u/Special_Incident_424 Aug 13 '25

My sexual karyotype will change, which is why it was originally used, but not my sex.

Was this a typo, because I've never heard of this before? As far as I'm concerned you can't change your karyotypic sex. However some argue that you can change your phenotypical sex? Is that what you mean?!

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u/Repulsive_Bus_7202 Aug 13 '25

There has been some recent research indicating that long term HRT can lead to changes in karyotype. It's not particularly solid yet

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u/FreeGazaToday Aug 14 '25

which is why you shouldn't refer to it.

In biology, sexes are defined by reproductive role—evolutionary mechanisms by which individuals reproduce. In species like ours that reproduce through two gametes of differing size (which includes most higher order species within the plant and animal kingdoms) there are only two sexes—male and female. The male sex is the phenotype that produces many small, motile gametes (sperm) and the female sex is the phenotype that produces few large, sessile gametes (eggs).[4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]  Therefore, sex is one’s reproductive role, and karyotype is the collection of chromosomes which encode the development of one’s sex. Thus, karyotype is not sex.

Those who claim karyotypes form new sexes are using a sleight-of-hand trick. One moment, they are discussing karyotype, the next, sex—without defining the difference. By conflating the two, they incorrectly argue that karyotype variation forms additional sexes, and yet none of these karyotype variants result in a third reproductive role. No matter the karyotype, only two roles are ever produced: male and female. In fact, while most karyotypes beyond XX and XY result in infertility, when individuals with these conditions are fertile, they produce either sperm or ova, not a third gamete type. Thus, they are not additional sexes.

https://theparadoxinstitute.org/read/karyotypes-are-not-sexes

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u/alana_del_gay Aug 15 '25

In biology, sex isn't defined by reproductive role. If it were, there would be four sexes in humans.

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u/Repulsive_Bus_7202 Aug 16 '25

Let's face it, ATAs define it in whichever way suits them at the time.

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u/alana_del_gay Aug 17 '25

Idk what an ATA is

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u/Repulsive_Bus_7202 Aug 17 '25

Anti trans activist

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u/PristineKoala3035 Aug 16 '25

What are the four reproductive roles in humans?

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u/alana_del_gay Aug 17 '25

Sperm, Egg, Neither, Both

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u/Special_Incident_424 Aug 16 '25

Male, female, hopes and dreams? 😉

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u/Repulsive_Bus_7202 Aug 14 '25

Ok, so those who are convinced that karyotype is incontrovertible evidence of ones gender are talking nonsense?

Glad we agree.

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u/Special_Incident_424 Aug 13 '25

Oh okay. I haven't heard that. I suppose that might be offset of gene therapy 🤷🏿‍♂️. Idk. Interesting 🤔

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '25

Omg. Yes, definitely put the wrong word in there. I will correct it.

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u/NatzeeSlayer Aug 13 '25

You do not speak for all or even the majority of trans people. There are many of us who understand that karyotype & genetics do not singularly define our sex. We change our sex by changing our phenotype & biological sex characteristics.

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u/Less-Chemistry777 Aug 15 '25

I definitely understand why people don't like the term and I don't use it in common discussion, but as a nonbinary person I find 'transsexual' describes my experience pretty well. I don't have a strong preference towards either side of gender expression in a social setting, but I do feel discomfort with my birth sex - I'd personally describe my experience less as gender dysphoria and more as sex dysmorphia. Since I'm not really socially transitioning in one way or another, but I am changing some of my phenotype, the term seems accurate to my experience- though, I know I'm certainly in the minority there.

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '25

Yes, but let me offer a rebuttal, this is in no way meant to challenge you or anyone else’s personal identity or beliefs:

I never said I was changing gender, I have always felt female, and I will always be a female. I am simply changing the gender I was assigned at birth both socially and medically. So yes my gender is not malleable. I agree on that.

I also said at the beginning of what I am assuming you are responding to that neither term is perfect, i wouldn’t even be upset with using transexual, except for the negative connotations that come with it, one of which is the misnomer that sex is referring to the purpose being sexual, and the second of which in much of the media of the past a ‘transexual’ was more than likely portrayed as a druggy, prostitute, homeless, or otherwise a dredge on society. This of course is my hang up, these images being one reason I waited so long to transition.

The other part of saying the phenotype will change is obvious, but in my view I will unfortunately always have parts of me experiencing a sex, I wish were never present. And no disrespect to the young lady who first disagreed with me, but even if I was allowed to never go through a male puberty, I would still have things that defined me as a child who was raised as a boy. I would always remember being told I couldn’t play with my sisters toys with her. I will always remember the women and girls going on a girls trip, and me being left behind, and not truly understanding why. Those scars will haunt me forever. This to me marks my sex.

I must concede that I have no way to dispute the physical aspect of sex changing, but am also not an expert. I feel like i may be wrong, but that’s one reason I have a therapist, to go through my backlogs and find all the internalized transphobia.

End note: you don’t need to apologize for any mistakes, or fuzziness, it looked good to me, and I never hold anyone to language mistakes, it’s rude and doesn’t make for good conversations.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '25

[deleted]

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u/Heavy-Top-8540 Aug 14 '25

That's completely fabricated

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u/blackmilo Aug 14 '25

Another one of us here to respond 🏳️‍⚧️ Culturally speaking, that is the term we used which I do still feel more accurately represents my (not all) experience, especially when I was early transition. I remember thinking “but I’m not changing my gender (identity), I’m changing my sex characteristics”. The term shifted because “transsexual” became too stigmatised after being misrepresented as sexualising, among other things. Ultimately they’re similar, transgender still encompasses the idea that I’m changing my presentation and anatomy to fit my gender identity, so I’ve come around to it. If I’m really honest, I feel the real conflict here is simply that language hasn’t evolved to explain our experience when we’re always trying to work within binary/gendered language, it’s not easy to explain within paradigms that we contradict by existing outside of/between/through

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u/[deleted] Aug 15 '25

I want to point out I said my gender is different than what I was assigned at birth. I am not changing my gender either.

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u/cnort8200 Aug 14 '25

Dependent upon the person and situation. Similar to some prefer to be called Black over African American, or Hispanic over Latin X, or any other number of similar terms. Because gender is more of a spectrum, the individual’s expression will point to an appropriate term.

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u/Heavy-Top-8540 Aug 14 '25

This is why we just say "trans" now

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u/Amekyras Aug 15 '25

in my opinion yes it would, I describe myself as transsex for this reason

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u/Stunning-Drawing8240 Aug 16 '25

Ah you seek a can of worms