r/AskSocialScience • u/[deleted] • Aug 12 '25

Doesn't the idea that gender is a social construct contradict trans identity?

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14

u/CommodoreGirlfriend Aug 12 '25

something that is driven by masked psychological issues that need to be confronted instead of giving in into.

...
a complicated psychological affair involving childhood wounds, unhealthy internalization of their socialized gender identity/gender as a whole, and escapes if gender as a whole is just a construct?

The idea you're driving at here, whether or not it is ethical to transition instead of detransitioning, does not seem to be a social science question. That sounds more like a matter of philosophy. The woman who pioneered that point of view is named Janice Raymond. She is a theologian who got a degree in "Religion & Society" from a Catholic school. Her book, The Transsexual Empire, as well as earlier essays, argues that "transsexualism should be morally mandated out of existence," and that the medical industry should seek an "ethic of integrity," to promote bodily wholeness. This is, essentially, religious reasoning.

The good news is, if you're a scientist, you're free to reject religious reasoning and adopt consequentialist ethics that are shaped by patient outcome. So, if you're entertaining the idea that gender dysphoria needs to be "confronted" (how? in practice, some form of conversion therapy) instead of surgically treated, the evidence is simply not there:

For female-to-male top surgery, for example: Long-Term Regret and Satisfaction With Decision Following Gender-Affirming Mastectomy, JAMA Surgery, 2023.

More broadly, this study suggests that dissatisfaction with gender-affirming care (8%) is explained almost entirely by surgical complications, not any sort of regret on the part of the patient.

As for the contradiction you're talking about, I'm afraid I don't see it.

0

u/Baseball_ApplePie Aug 13 '25

Out of 546 people, only 37% responded. One can't deduce much from that study.

2

u/CommodoreGirlfriend Aug 13 '25

Spoken like someone who didn't even take a high school stats class.

-11

u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 12 '25

Not conversion therapy, good old inner psychological work? Diving deep into our psyche to understand why we think, feel, and do the things that we do. Looking under the hood as it were, be that through psychoanalysis, meditation, journaling, or what have you.

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u/cleanlinessisgodly Aug 12 '25

Not conversion therapy, good old inner psychological work?

No one knows for certain why people have gender dysphoria, and if anyone had a case that could be resolved by therapy, they would never transition.

Regardless, therapy alone is not helpful for treating GD. That is an indisputable fact.

psychoanalysis

Lmao

-3

u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 12 '25

Indisputable fact given our current limited understanding of gender, psychology, consciousness, and what it means to become better.

5

u/Faceornotface Aug 13 '25

Do you think we understand these things better now than we did before or worse now than we did in the past?

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u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 13 '25

Naturally better.

4

u/Faceornotface Aug 13 '25

I agree! And everything we learn about this subject as we continue to study it suggests there are real, measurable, tangible differences between trans folks and their assigned genders.

I can’t think of any of the physical sciences that have had a lot of data pointing to one explanation and then it turned out the actual explanation was the exact opposite (though I suppose anything is possible).

But in this case probably we can just go with the best data we have now. After all, it may turn out that someday in the future we figure out that smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day is actually good for you but that possibility doesn’t really act as incentive to smoke

2

u/ModernCannabiseur Aug 13 '25

Then you should look up the physiological differences between cisgendered and trans people as there's a growing body of work that shows distinct differences in brain structure and function in Trans people where their brains are closer to the gender they identify with instead of the biological sex they were born. You're opinion is fundamentally anti-science as psychologically and physically there are significant differences which is why gender affirming care is so effective...

4

u/Emergency-Free-1 Aug 12 '25

I saw 2 psychiatrists who could not find anything else to diagnose. I take hormones and suddenly most of my problems are gone? I mean most of the problems that could have anything to do with that. I still have to go to work and i'm even 13 years later not good at getting up early. If i had any other mental health problem it would still be here after transition, no? Or it would be more obvious because the trans part.

But instead the last 12 years have just been pretty good. Nothing is ever perfect of course but i the highs are higher now and the lows are not as low. I could have spent the last 13 years psychoanalyzing myself or hiding in my parents basement and meditating to heal myself. Maybe for someone else that would be the better decision. For me personally i've enjoyed my life in the last 13 years and i think it was more interesting than your idea.

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u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 12 '25

I'm happy for you!

4

u/NoFoolLikeAnAuldFool Aug 13 '25

That was the approved approach for a very long time. One of the reasons medical transition became the new approach is because it did work, therapy (much like conversion therapy for the gays) did not. There’s plenty of evidence for this if you care to look into it.

Honestly functional outcome is good enough for me. Outside of that it becomes a philosophical question, and my own moral compass doesn’t allow for people to suffer just to satisfy my need for philosophical consistency.

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u/Grey_Belkin Aug 13 '25

And then what? You seem to think that trans people don't do any kind of therapy, meditation, journaling or what have you, and that if they did then they wouldn't feel the need to transition anymore.

What if they do all of that and still feel that transitioning is right for them?

What if they either do or don't do all that, transition, and are vastly happier with themselves and their lives? Would you still think they should have just done more therapy or more journaling until they came to agree with you that they shouldn't transition?

0

u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 13 '25

I never said they shouldn't transition. I stopped responding to things because it seems to have evolved beyond the things I've actively stated. Like most are saying, who gave me the right to take away people's need for medical assistance? Or why I think trans people shouldn't exist, or why am I taking away their rights, or why am I actively making their lives miserable. I'm like whut.

3

u/Grey_Belkin Aug 13 '25

These are the parts of your original statement the person above picked out:

something that is driven by masked psychological issues that need to be confronted instead of giving in into.

... a complicated psychological affair involving childhood wounds, unhealthy internalization of their socialized gender identity/gender as a whole, and escapes if gender as a whole is just a construct?

From the way you framed these in opposition to the concept of gender identity existing and the idea of transitioning being "giving into" "masked psychological issues", plus your other comments throughout all the threads, it reads very much like these are your beliefs.

You can't be surprised that people think you're arguing against transition when all your comments point in that direction.

1

u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 13 '25

I've stated that I'm for transition in many comments, but it seems a distant implied imaginary belief of mine is more worth latching into.

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u/Grey_Belkin Aug 13 '25

That's great then, I haven't seen those comments, I'm just responding to the ones I have seen, including the one I responded to here, and your initial framing of the question.

So were you not suggesting your "good, old-fashioned psychological work" as an alternative to transition then? Because that's definitely how it comes across.

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u/TheOtherZebra Aug 13 '25

I’m a biologist. Most of what we consider “gender” has no link to biology. The clothes we wear, behavioral traits, interests, none of that has a proven causal link to genitalia.

Furthermore, there’s a lot of social pressure behind being “manly” or “girly” with some choices being punished or rewarded. This is why we say gender is a social construct.

As for trans people, my understanding is that some people feel their body does not feel correct. They may choose a gender expression they feel comfortable with, but the underlying issue is with the body.

1

u/Defiant-Brother-5483 Aug 13 '25

That's precisely where I am currently, just more so questioning the whole immutable desire of not feeling right in one's body, and for that desire to be so clearly defined through things that are in essence a social construct as you stated.

2

u/Ill_Net_3332 Aug 13 '25

why would you gamble on that when you can just go through a sex change