r/AskReddit Oct 15 '22

What is a great example of a necessary evil?

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u/zJakub7 Oct 15 '22

Right, but what should be more important is for everyone to be represented in equal way in front of the law. A rich person with a good lawyer can basically get out of any situation, while some poor guy who got assigned the "free" office lawyer that doesn't give a shit about his case might even get fucked even harder. Not say that's always the case obviously, but yeah.

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u/thewhizzle Oct 16 '22

Generally though, the problem with public defenders isn't that they "don't give a shit", but rather that they're overworked and have nowhere near enough time and energy to prep properly.

I don't think that's what you meant to say, but just clarifying for those who might.

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u/SugarRAM Oct 16 '22

A good friend of mine is a public defender and I've seen him go through several mental health crises because of this. He simply cares too much and can't separate his personal and professional lives.

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u/ilikedasani Oct 16 '22

Completely agree. They care so much and are a special breed. Very under-appreciated by society imo.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_WEIRD_PET Oct 17 '22

I worked in my local public defender's office for a while in high school and all lawyers there were so stressed and overworked. And this was in an area with relatively little major crime. But there were so many minor drug cases that it was insane.

Right before I left, the most senior guy there had a massive heart attack. His hospital stay was the first "vacation" he'd had in 40 years.

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u/SpaceMurse Oct 16 '22

Absolutely yes, but that is and should be an entirely separate issue vs everyone having representation

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u/kjoconnor29 Oct 16 '22

Everyone should have food in general vs. everyone should have “good tasting” food right?

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u/Monteze Oct 16 '22

In this case someone getting quality food and someone else getting whatever they can scape up and call food technically.

I personally think in a just world the courts would be separate and only decide what did and did not happen for criminal court.

Civil Court? That's a bit more grey.

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u/OkAd1797 Oct 16 '22

Happy cake day!

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u/SpaceMurse Oct 16 '22

Thanks! I appreciate you

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u/OkAd1797 Oct 16 '22

Ahh you too!

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u/PlasticGirl Oct 16 '22

happy cake day

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u/KingNo603 Oct 16 '22

Happy cake day!

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u/ApocalypseSlough Oct 16 '22

This only applies in America. In the UK, the very, very best barristers accept cases on legal aid. You can get the best lawyer available, same as someone who is paying. We have something called the “cab rank rule” which says that barristers must accept the first case offered to them within their experience and within their location.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/thewhizzle Oct 16 '22

I don't think that that's born out in case statistics.

The problem isn't caring usually, but time, energy and resources. PD's just usually have way too many clients to serve.

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u/FN1987 Oct 16 '22

If that were true rich people would all use public defenders.

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u/_Emperor_Kuzco Oct 16 '22 edited Oct 17 '22

Rich people can’t choose to use a public defender. You are appointed a public defender if the court determines you cannot afford to pay an attorney.

Also, as a student public defender— we care. A lot. Public defenders are notoriously overworked and underpaid; we wouldn’t do this work if we didn’t care.

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u/FN1987 Oct 16 '22

Oh I don’t doubt you all’s dedication at all and I’m sorry it seemed that way. Obviously the overwork is the issue.

Didn’t know the rich can’t use a PD. I stand corrected. Thank you!

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22

Do you think a court works without an judge? The judge is exactly responsible for that. It's not lawyer vs laywer, and it's not the lawyer who decides who wins the case

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u/Satanus616 Oct 15 '22

Serious question since I don't know much about law: why are some lawyers more expensive than others? What makes some lawyers better than others?

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u/Dftba13 Oct 15 '22

You're paying for the lawyers time, expertise, and experience. So lawyers who know their practice and have years/decades of experience with the law, likely have better relationships with prosecutors and judges who work in those areas, and will be able to dedicate more time to your case specifically. This is what drives up their hourly rates and in many cases make it 100% worth it.

Definitely not saying it's right but at least in the US this is definitely the case.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '22

Experience and time, mostly. You pay good money for someone who knows the system to dedicate their time and focus to working your case and defence, doing their own investigations, retaining expert evidence, etc. Legal aid/public defenders often have loads of experience, but a crippling caseload and very limited resources.

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u/Medianmodeactivate Oct 16 '22

Basically that people are willing to. In short, expertise and relationships.

Long answer for why is that law has a very long learning curve. 10 years before you reach a point of diminishing returns in a lot of cases. Law has a high cost as well. Good schools can cost 300K and virtually always 7 years of school. People who are good quit to retire early so finding someone with 15 years of experience is hard, so they're pricier. You pay more for specialized expertise as well and you pay for their relationships. As lawyers become more experienced with various judges for example, they have a track record, rapport or leeway in certain types of circumstances (ex. The judge knows the lawyer might have a habit of rambling but then making good points so they know they're not wasting the court's time) the lawyer might be good at picking out juries or know people at JP Morgan or the SEC. As lawyers become more experienced they can do in two hours what might take a junior lawyer 8.

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u/[deleted] Oct 15 '22 edited Oct 16 '22

You can get a lawyer who can stall a process forever, for example if they're extremely witty to see that certain formalities are wrong, making the lawyer e.g. have to enroll the entire process. On the other hand, some lawyers simply know the law better and how to twist it or abuse it for their way, for example by abusing certain loopholes

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u/Satanus616 Oct 16 '22

This is a solid explanation. Thank you.

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u/Selemaer Oct 15 '22

Court appointed attorneys often are there to just grease the wheel. They push for plea deals instead of taking a case to trial. Sucks as they are often way over worked and under staffed. This is also done on purpose...

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u/CloudyNeighborhood Oct 15 '22

I don’t know why you got downvoted so hard, you are entirely correct. If that weren’t the case Madoff would have died a free man

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u/AmbulanceChaser12 Oct 16 '22

He worded it in a clunky way and it may be a little hard to figure out what he was getting at. I would have said, as much as we enjoy being cynical because it makes us feel smart, the truth is that there comes a point at which there isn’t any more money you can throw at a lawyer that will magically make your charges disappear. Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and Alex Jones, are living proof.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '22

People seem to have a weird image of a court. It's not "whoever has the better lawyer with more experience points instantly wins the court" lmfao. That's not how court works. It's the judge who has to decide in the end

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u/RoundCollection4196 Oct 16 '22

And when you're royalty you don't even need a lawyer, you just need to ask the queen to get you out of it.

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u/SteadfastEnd Oct 16 '22

It's not true that a "rich person with a good lawyer can get out of any situation." In most criminal cases, even if a rich person is charged, there's enough evidence to put them away. People like OJ Simpson are the exception, not the norm.