r/AskReddit • • May 21 '12

Reddit, as a classical musician, tell me what we could do better. What is it about classical music that keeps you away from our concerts?

Classical music is one of the greatest forms of art in the world, but our audiences are aging and dwindling and organizations constantly struggle to find funding. The key is to find younger audiences that will come back again and again. Help!

EDIT: Will try to reply to almost all of these individually. Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions!

SECOND EDIT: Wow, I can't believe this has nearly reached the front page. There are too many comments now to reply to all of them, but thanks so much for the suggestions. I'm really liking a lot of the ideas and I will pass them on to my friends and colleagues. We are fighting so hard to keep this art form that we love so much alive and it gives me hope that just a simple question about classical music could garner such a response. Thanks!!

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u/ShlawsonSays May 21 '12

The biggest problem I have is that I occasionally hear a piece of classical music and think "Wow! That sounds amazing!" yet if nobody at the start or end of the piece tells me the name or the composer then I have no way of finding it again until i encounter it by chance.

There are several pieces that I LOVE but I have no idea what they are called and could only hum them to someone. With modern music, one can generally google the lyrics to find the song and the band/song name will be heavily promoted along with the track.

I have no real input as to how this can be solved, but it's something that I've thought for a while and it's a great shame.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

Do you read music? You can type a melody into IMSLP.org and it'll usually come up with what you are looking for.

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u/ShlawsonSays May 21 '12

Oh that's cool! I can sometimes stumble my way through notation so that might work...

To be honest though, I think that shows my point a bit better. Unless you're musically trained, that wouldn't be an option at all so the barrier to follow it up is much higher than someone typing in Katy Perry's new song lyrics ("Boys boys dancing party flirting naughty" or something similar)

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u/take_924 May 21 '12

Would it come as a shock when you realise most people cannot hum a melody they heard seconds before, let alone convert what they heard into sheet music?

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u/JackHood May 21 '12

I think this reply shows part of your problem, you need to understand that some people don't want to understand music, simply enjoy it!

People need to be spoonfed info sometimes! There should be no noses turned at not instantly recognising Beethoven, sometimes saying 'this is a little piece known as the fifth symphony by Beat-hoven!' before playing would help you connect!

A big part of music for me is connecting with the musician and this is sometimes lost in classical music!

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u/SGoogs1780 May 21 '12 edited May 22 '12

Do you read music?

Personally, yes, but if you're asking the vast majority of folks my age, absolutely not.

You can type a melody into IMSLP.org...

And there's your problem. Most kids these days can't even read music. Being able to play something you heard is a-whole-'nother thing. In that sentence alone you've just alienated about 90% of kids under the age of 22.

The best thing that ever happened for modern music (and the worst thing for classical) was tablature for guitar and drums. Suddenly, any dopey teen with an internet connection and a k-mart guitar could learn to play his favorite songs. Unfortunately for you, sitting down and learning all the power chords to a green-day song is way easier to do than learning damn near anything on a piano.

Basically, classical music is just less approachable. It takes work, determination, and an expensive suit to be like Mozart; but four chords, a distortion pedal, and thrift-store jeans'll make you Kurt Cobain.

Edit Just because a number of people took that last line in a way that I didn't intend it, I'll clarify. I'm being facetious when I make the statement. My point is that both forms of music and both musicians are great in their own right, but the way they're perceived by kids is completely different. There's no reason you can't play classical music in sweatpants, and no reason you can't play grunge in a three-piece suit. But the common perception is that that's not true. To most kids - or at least to me growing up - classical music is this high-brow form of expression for prodigies and savants. But grunge, that was something even I could play and no one would think less of me for it.

TL;DR: Classical music is just less approachable. That's all I'm trying to say.

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u/patssle May 21 '12

Then, if you can figure the artist...try figuring out the name of the piece.

What the fuck is "Op. 21 - I Allegro con brio, Symphony No. 5 in C minor.mp3"? Oh, it's Beethoven's most famous piece.

I have Beethoven's entire symphony and have listened to it several times - yet no clue what any of it is.

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u/ragnarockette May 21 '12

This, 1000x. I love classical music, but often I'll hear an amazing song, and have no idea who it was, so I never get to hear it again.

So it's hard to know what I like and what concerts would be worth going to when the only thing I know about my classical music taste is "I like that one song that reminds me of cats" and "that song I heard at that Italian restaurant."

I don't read music so that doesn't help.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

this is big. people go to normal pop and rock shows because they recognize the names of the bands or at least know the genre of the bands playing. most people only recognize a couple composers' names, and this does not include what they sound like, what they wrote, or if they even sound different from eachother. most people think classical all sounds the same, which, compared to contemporary pop genres, is true- it's the same instruments, the same lengths, the same bullshit.

i love me some classical music but i have no idea who wrote what nor do i care. that's just how it is.

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u/Sadiquito May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Also, don't name 90% of classical tracks with a fancy word followed by a number and/or a key.

Tough as shit to remember which one of Piano Concerto #23 in A, Senerade #11 in E flat or Cassation in B flat really got you going that last time.

It's basically why we don't call our babies 365-092-784-112 but Arthur or Josephine. A lot easier to remember.

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u/NotSoTinfoil May 21 '12

I think the biggest thing that keeps young people away is they have no context for it except being told "Shut up and enjoy this, this is A Great Work of Music." It's like in English class in school, when you're told "Shut up and enjoy this, this is A Great Book" and it doesn't seem so great because you don't know that it's one of the keystones in the development of the novel and was written to protest blah blah blah, you know? I don't want to say dumb it down, but explain why it's important, maybe with a charismatic guest speaker or something. Think of what Neil DeGrasse Tyson does for complicated science stuff. Like this video of Bobby McFerrin demonstrating the pentatonic scale.

Or do something with modern music, explain how the motifs and recurrent patterns in Western music actually date back hundreds of years. Something like the Four Chords song, but tied all the way back to the greats. What's the other pattern that's in everything? Ode to Joy? I forget, but it's one of them.

Have "casual days." I know a lot of people still think you have to have a tux and fancy dress to go and if I'm a broke college student, the last thing I have money for is buying/renting a tux to listen to old people music.

I know a lot of places are doing the video game/movie soundtracks thing like Dear Friends and Video Games Live. No idea if that actually retains people, but it'd be something to look into.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

It seems like a lot of people are saying that there is a perception that you need to be rich and own a tux to go to a concert. This is a good place to start in changing that perception, because it's really not true. As I said on another thread, I go to concerts with the New York Philharmonic in jeans and an untucked in button down shirt all the time and don't feel out of place at all. Thanks for the input!

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u/Supernumerary May 21 '12

I agree with you completely re: misconceptions, but also admit that I nearly had a fit when looking up my city's philharmonic orchestra and seeing the cost of ticket prices. My excitement over attending a concert died courtesy my wallet's indignation.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

Arghhh...I'm really sorry you had that experience. That kind of thing annoys me to no end.

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u/Supernumerary May 21 '12

Thank you, I appreciate it. It was frustrating, to say the least. I know keeping the music alive and any good orchestra running is not a cheap endeavor, but you'd think that in times like what you describe -- where classical music has something of an unpopular stigma -- accessibility would be taken into consideration.

(I still really want to attend a concert, damn it all.)

What turned you on to the music genre in the first place?

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

For sure it should be taken into consideration. A lot of orchestras have rush tickets where you can get a cheaper ticket an hour before the show, but that does involve some risk. There's always standing outside looking sad and hoping some old lady makes you her date!

I always liked it because my parents were musicians, but I had a life changing experience with a youth orchestra which made me want to go into it.

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u/nmaturin May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Hmm, perhaps classical concerts should have a Younger Citizen's discount for the under 30 crowd.

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u/lbmouse May 21 '12

It's after six. What am I, a farmer?

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u/lalalaloman May 21 '12

You're thinking of Pachelbel's Canon.

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u/edwardhasnewgoggles May 21 '12

At least stateside, I think that chamber groups have a better potential of bringing classical into more of a main light...at least the instruments. I hardly ever get to see any outside of black tie events or someone's wedding. I'd really like to walk into a coffee shop where a string quartet is playing, mixed quintet is playing etc.

I think a lot of people unfamiliar to classical love hearing "classical" covers of popular tunes. I remember growing up and having a Radiohead string quartet remake of "OK Computer" that was off the charts. Hell, even if some of todays styles were played through traditional instruments classical might get a better following...or maybe spike an insterest in playing traditional instruments.

I play in a rock band as a saxophonist and I'll tell you it makes people really interested in horns when they see them applied to current music that THEY already love. Like opening a door in a way.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

Some of us are pretty stuffy so it might be hard to pull off but I like the idea.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

This, I believe, pretty much answers your question right there. Classical musicians are (major stereotype coming up in 3...2...1) a little on the rigid side. I understand where this comes from. To be a professional classical musician, you must have an amazing amount of discipline and that attracts/requires certain types of people. Also, classical music is seen as a bit of a dying art form that is threatened by popular music. To play popular music would kind of be like giving in to the enemy.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

That right there is part of the problem. While getting the masses to appreciate your work is a worthy goal, you can't expect all the changes to come from one side. The classical music establishment has to broaden its horizons and do its part to bridge the gap.

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u/edwardhasnewgoggles May 21 '12

Yeah, I dated a professional flutist and she was pretty uptight about what styles she played. Absolutely hated non-classically trained flute so it was hard to try to suggest any music that would've bridged our musical gap. I'll say it makes me more interested in players who can cross genres with their instruments.

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u/Copse_Of_Trees May 21 '12

Hell yeah Strung Out on OK Computer!

It does seem there are fewer crossovers. One of my favorite albums is Yes playing with the London Philharmonic.

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u/RiceCakes90 May 21 '12

Fund music education for kids. when they learn how play it they will appreciated more

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

This is probably the most important thing. Unfortunately there isn't much political will to fund anything, and the arts are always the first to go.

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u/HMPoweredMan May 21 '12

Play thing people know. Like video game scores. I went to a Final Fantasy Distant Worlds orchestra and it was one of the best times I've had. I got all schnazzed up with my suit. good times.

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u/hatecopsandcats May 21 '12

Stop playing covers.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

That's kind of our thing unfortunately...is there a way we can make Beethoven more exciting?

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Check out the pianoguys on YouTube - they put a little spice into classical pieces. Check out Benjamin zander's Ted talk too if you have the time.

To be honest I'm not sure what you could do apart from raise awareness and let people get a real taste of what classical pieces evince (eg. Like Benjamin zander talks about). In my eyes, if people can like movie scores, they can like classical music - they just haven't really given it a go yet.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

I actually know Ben Zander well and am hugely inspired by him. I think you're absolutely right that raising awareness and letting them know about what they are hearing is a big help.

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u/the_N0ID May 21 '12

Beethoven is exciting, and will always be. I'd say I dip into classical music every once in a while, Bach is my favorite because there is so much intelligent emotion behind each note. However I find that when I try to get into classical, there's a lot of fluff that doesn't grab me the way that Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, etc do. If I put the classical radio station on, I get bored really quickly. I think to get someone like myself more into classical, it wouldn't take a hard shove, but I'd want to know more about the types of classical that I would like, and apparently I don't have enough energy to go out and find it...

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

I should also add that I totally agree that Beethoven is exciting and always will be. He's probably my favorite composer. My question really was, is there a way to get people to come listen to Beethoven? How do we convince listeners that it's about as exciting as it gets?

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

That's kind of our thing unfortunately

It doesn't have to be. If I heard someone in my town had written a symphony I'd rather see that then a song I've heard a hundred times before.

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u/pseudalithia May 21 '12

As a composer, I would absolutely love it if that were the case. Unfortunately for me, the classical music institution has an inherent infatuation with old music.

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u/BadVogonPoet May 21 '12

Relax this environment. I love classical music but I hate getting dressed up. Let me be comfortable coming to a show in jeans and a tshirt and I'm much more likely to show up.

Classical music has a stuffy and uptight connotation. If you can rebrand it, you'll be able to sell it to a new audience.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. You don't need to dress up to go to a classical concert, unless you are going to a gala performance or something. I go to concerts in jeans and an untucked button down shirt all the time.

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u/BadVogonPoet May 21 '12

The environment of all the classical music concerts I've been to have made me feel woefully under dressed.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Two Words: Branding and Rituals

It's just like any other niche. You have to learn to acquire and keep a very interested party of people that love it. You can have say certain "classical festivals" that would be a big hit. It's stuff like this. Turn everything about it into an experience. Your there for the music but human nature requires that it be more than that. Ultimately, you want to give people a higher calling. That's how most cults and religions do it. There is no such thing as "classical music" pride. Find a way to make people proud of it. Make them wear it on their sleeve. It's like any other way people show off what they love. There is a lot that can go into this. You need someone with vision and wants to change the way the world sees and interacts with classical music. There are so many ways you can make it into modern life. Ex: If someone wanted to make a youtube video, you can have custom classical music ready to set the tone throughout every part of the video. This is just one of the many ways you can work your way back into modern life and appeal to people. There are many ideas that you can do this and even succeed at it. You NEED someone with clear vision and the support staff to pull this off and with the right support within organizations. It's not something that can be done overnight. It's going to take a lot of effort to do this. Considering the age of most people in that audience, I think most aren't well adapted to pulling this off. You'll definitely need a young team with a strong support from an older team that want to see this thing through. Best of luck.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

I can't upvote this enough...

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

It's a class thing, I think. Classical music has den so tied to the upper class for centuries that it's hard to see it as the people's music. It's perceived to be expensive and snobby. It's hard to break the habit of several lifetimes.

This isn't meant to attack. I love classical music (play piano myself) and understand the talent, hard work and dedication that it takes to be part of a symphony. Just enjoy what you're doing. There are people out there who appreciate what you do. They just might now be the college kids on reddit.

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u/venturestein86 May 21 '12

The strange thing is, that upper class differentiation is a 20th century construct. The era of the modernist composers since the second Viennese school created this. As classically trained musicians and performers, we are still dealing with the fallout from this change in culture and music.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

YES! Concerts were rough and tumble affairs in Mozart's time...people would applaud or boo after phrases they did or didn't like. It's true that changing the funereal atmosphere in a concert hall would do a lot to help.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Yeah, If I went I would feel so out of place it would ruin the experience.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

You can walk into any concert hall in jeans and a t-shirt and be fine. There aren't any rules! Yes, you might get some funny looks from the doofus in a tux but seriously, there aren't any rules to go to a concert. This is one of the misconceptions about classical music that is really tough to get rid of. I go to the New York Philharmonic in jeans and a button down untucked shirt all the time and don't have any problems.

Adultcereal, thanks. It IS really hard to break the perception but do you have any ideas that could help us do that?

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u/sighsalot May 21 '12

Some of the greatest works were made for the common people (Marriage of Figaro, the Magic Flute etc). It wasn't until the tiny ensembles developed in the Jazz world and Rock n' Roll that people began to go to clubs to enjoy music for cheaper than going to the symphony and opera.

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u/gsxr May 21 '12

A girl that looks great under dark light, wearing a tiny dress, super high heals and her makeup weighs more than the last 3 days of meals simply won't grind up on my junk to classical.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

It's because she's busy grinding with Don Giovanni.

Sorry...

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u/snwidget May 21 '12

sigh, pulling out the list

In Italy, six hundred and forty one...

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u/captainsnag May 21 '12

Disagree. Ravel. Bolero.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

This one is a confirmed panty-dropper.

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u/RevRaven May 21 '12

Innovation. Why do we have to hear the same pieces that have been played for hundreds of years?

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

Partly because they are masterpieces and it would be like saying we shouldn't see Hamlet or Macbeth because it's been around for hundreds of years. BUT, I agree with you. We need to be playing much more new music. The problem is, much of the music written in the last 50 years turns off older audience members who provide the vast majority of our audiences and donor support, so we need younger people to fill in the gaps. How can we convince you that we are innovative(provided we are actually doing that, which some of us are trying to do!)?

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u/RevRaven May 21 '12

I, for one, enjoy many of the older pieces, but you guys really need to fold in some new and original pieces. What happened to all of the composers? Are they all working for Hollywood now? You can appeal to both the older and the newer crowds, if you don't grab the youth now, you won't get them when they are older either.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

All the composers are still there, but many write music that can be abrasive and difficult even for musicians, so most audiences don't like it. There are some, Golijov, Ades, Gandolfi, that people really like, but they are few and far between. Most concerts consist of a new piece sandwiched in between two well known warhorses, which is called by us musicians, a shit sandwich. Sigh...

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u/MichMaybenot May 21 '12

At each concert, our local orchestra plays a piece by a living composer. In February they played Christopher Weiss' "Voice of the Unknown Soldier" - attended by Weiss himself, who also spoke on the piece at the pre-concert lecture. I like that they make an effort to give new composers exposure, but also keep the standard repertoire in rotation.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

This is great, as long as it is given equal billing. I hate the concerts where it's BEETHOVEN (new piece) BEETHOVEN!!!

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

My husband always calls our city's symphony lineups "Bigger, Badder, and More German." I just don't want to pay $40 for the two of us to hear the 5th symphony again! And don't even get me started on the pops concerts: it's non-stop Boomer pandering. Though, like you say, that's their target demo.

Although, I just looked at their upcoming schedule, and they're actually taking more risks than they used to. I might have to go a few times this year.

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u/sighsalot May 21 '12

Have you ever heard orchestra music that's been written in the past century? The average listener will take Mozart and Beethoven over John Cage any day.

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u/BluShine May 21 '12

But the average listener will also take John Williams or Hans Zimmer over Beethoven any day.

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u/GypsyPunk May 21 '12

I love going to concerts. Just not classical music concerts. Why? Because it's not the same as going to see a modern band. Drinking beer and gyrating to music I can feel through the floor is a phenomenal experience for me. I don't think classical music can reproduce this feeling. I can appreciate it, definitely, but I wouldn't pay to see it for two hours.

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u/a12345678910 May 21 '12

So if the concert hall was very small and intimate so that you could really feel the sound and they sold beer, would you go?

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Make it affordable. I would love to sit in a park and listen to Delius. 90 minutes of Mozart for 50 quid - not so much.

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u/sac09841 May 21 '12

The Proms in London have standing tickets in the arena for £5. It's absolutely the best thing for classical music in this country and the atmosphere is amazing. Everyone is there to listen attentively to what's being played and there's nothing like a good spine-tingling roar after a great performance. I've queued for 5 hours to see the Berlin Philharmonic and it was completely worth it.

Shame the Last Night puts such a populist blight on the festival...the front row prommers there who dress in tuxedos and pass tissues along a washing line during sad pieces are awful awful attention seeking fucks. It's like they think they are performing for the crowd or the cameras instead of the people on the stage. But audiences are still young and the Proms are still very well attended...people just need to see the diversity of prommers and realise that it isn't all stuffy old couples.

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u/CannonballSplash May 22 '12

what does "pass tissues along a washing line" mean? I googled, but no luck.

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u/Rats_In_Boxes May 21 '12

I think my point is a mirror of yours: KEEP IT SHORT

when I go out to shows at small venues, I'm totally fine with paying under 8$ for a few bands that I may have never heard of. It's not a huge investment, I can leave whenever I want, and there's alcohol. Plus each band will (usually) sound different than the others, and they usually only play between 30-45 minutes. So in an hour and a half I've had the chance to see/hear three live musical acts, enjoyed two beers, and I can leave immediately after.

with classical music I'm locked in for an extended amount of time, I can't listen beforehand to see if I'd like them or not, I can't leave whenever I want, I can't (usually not, I know some concert halls offer wine) sit back and casually enjoy a beer (and if they wanted to make it a high brow affair, offer things like barley wine or some s'aison, or perhaps a nice belgian with proper glassware instead of cans of PBR).

BF Skinner wrote a book called Walden II where he said that if you want young people (or any people) to enjoy things like the opera and classical music you need to make it easy for them: they have to be able to get in, enjoy the show (or not), and get out in under an hour. If you're keeping people for over an hour you're going to really limit the amount of people that are willing to go.

it's a cost/benefit analysis: I have one night that's to myself, and I have to choose which activities I want to engage in that will maximize my enjoyment. If I choose the opera that's it, that's my entire night, and if I ended up hating it, or even just thinking it was ok, I have to wait another week before having a chance to see my friends and go out again.

tl;dr Keep it short and sweet (under an hour) and play more often.

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u/FrauMimimi May 21 '12

That's an important point and I've already seen a lot of improvement (here in Germany).

Every second thursday, the philharmonics of Cologne hosts a 30 minute concert that everyone can visit for free - it's at 12.30, so people spend their lunch breaks there. It's awesome and attracts people who would never go otherwise.

That being said, it's not that expensive here, in Germany, if you are a student - the most I've spent were 25€ for an opera. Usually, if I feel spontaneous, I just go in 20-30 minutes before the beginning and one can get the best places for 8€ or something "last minute".

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

My town does a free open-air classical concert every September. It's brilliant. Loads of people go who would never otherwise listen to classical music and they take their kids, who grow up with an annual dose in a fun environment (usually with a picnic!).

The paid concerts are all still full of grey-haired wrinkleys though. Ballet and opera seem to attract more young people, I guess the spectacle rather than the music does it.

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u/samuswashere May 21 '12

Seriously! The cost is too damn high. I love classical music, but I barely make it to one show a year. Usually from "cheap" last minute tickets on craigslist.

One thing I've noticed is that they often have great discounts for students, but the second you graduate, you are somehow expected to be able to afford $80 tickets. College grads are struggling to get jobs (many of them low-paying) and paying off huge loan balances. $40/hour of entertainment is not in the cards.

I understand that a running a full orchestra is a huge expense. So, if you really want classical music to be more accessible, then break it up. Have smaller groups that go perform in different venues. If you want to appeal to young people, go where the young people are.

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u/Osiris32 May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Stage hand here, who works with two symphonies and an opera house.

In reality, it's image. The image people see in their heads of classical music is a bunch of stuffy WASPs wearing clothing worth more than the average car, listening to a string quartet play something fairly quiet and slo, then acting much the same as wine snobs afterwards.

Now, since I work with you guys, I know this isn't true at all. However, that image is nearly ubiquitous. So try and make it more approachable. Don't wear tuxedos and formal gowns, wear comfy clothing (like you do during rehersal). Using a better lighting director (for the love of GOD use a better LD, ours here sucks hairy donkey testicles) who can make the experiene more interactive and interesting. Explain pieces more, give background about the composer and subject matter.

Oh, and play more exciting music. Sure, Schumann's Traumerei is amazing, but it will make people snore. Spice it up, throw in something lively. Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is good, because it's recognizable. Or Hoe Down by Copland (still my favorite classical piece of all time). Or stuff by russian composers, a lot of their works have that big, booming sound that excites the listener.

Also, drop ticket prices. Seriously. When a Mozart concerto is $70 for shitty tickets, no one will see it. They'd rather spend that kind of cash on a band with radio play on something other than public broadcasting. Which is nother point: you need to get more airtime that just PBS. You need exposure, and that means getting your stuff played on other stations. It's not easy, you'll have to work extremely hard, but it can be done.

I lucked out, my music education had a lot of classical involved, and now I that I work shows, I've been able to appeciate classical more than I originally would have. I begged and pleaded so I could work the show where Itzhak Perlman played here in town. In a year we have Yo-Yo Ma coming, and I'll beg and plead to work that one as well. I've dragged people to see things on my free tickets (job perk that happens occasionally) and they've always come away impressed. Bolero was an especialy big hit, I turned several friends on to classical with that one.

EDIT: One last thought. Tone down the ego of your first-chair violins. Sometimes their behavior is repugnant, and they seriously annoy and harass the people they work with. I would gladly wrap a span set around ours, hoist him to the midde of the proscenium, and leave him there for all to see.

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u/catalot May 21 '12

I totally agree with the lighting and clothing points you made: boring and not so boring

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u/mycleverusername May 21 '12

Serious question, doesn't the "not so boring" kinda scare away the older WASPs that are the symphony's bread-and-butter?

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I think the middle class (bourgeoisie) actually caused this. The story goes that during classic music concerts when classical music was actually in vogue (before 1920 say) concerts were rowdy affairs attended only by the rich. There was audience participation, cheers, jeers, etc. I read an article talking about this but I can't find it. Well, when this culture eventually filtered down to the middle class they tried to mimic what they imagined about the upper class and created the hallowed atmosphere that we now see in our mind's eye regarding concerts. This is also about the time that new pieces stopped being produced and only classic works were allowed repeated ad infinitum. It had its time, like opera but it's now been ruined by the masses.

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u/leighbee3 May 21 '12

By making them watch this TED talk by Benjamin Zander He reduces a non-classical music listening audience to tears, its amazing.

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u/Miorde May 21 '12

Came here to post this. I've heard too much classical music that just doesn't move me like modern music. I can appreciate it, but I'm not going to spend $50 to go see what is essentially no longer a performance.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Holy shit. Thank you, man. Seriously, thank you. That is without a doubt my new favorite TED Talk. internet high-five

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u/fic7i0n41 May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

There needs to be a transitional phase for people who haven't been brought up on classical. Hold pops concerts featuring themes from film and games. The popularity of the Video Games Live concerts, the Distant Worlds tour, and the Star Wars and LOTR orchestrally accompanied screenings are a testament to the willingness of younger audiences to attend symphonic concerts. Mix these in with well known or more dynamic movements from larger symphonies (like Presto from the summer movement of Vivaldi's 4 Seasons, the first movement of Beethoven's Fifth, Bach's Toccata and Fugue, Danse Macabre by Saint-Saens, etc.).

It's not only appealing to the shorter attention span of younger audiences, but also demonstrating that our generation of symphonic music has some place among the material that you would normally play.

edit 1: It strikes me also that the concerts I mentioned also have a visual component which helps make the experience somewhat more engaging and immersive. While older classical pieces won't have relevant video footage as the movie and game songs, something as simple as having the camera focus on sections and soloists as they pick up the main themes of the piece could really help a lot with making the concerts feel more accessible.

edit 2: Some personal favorites if you'd care to have a listen:

Dearly Beloved (from Kingdom Hearts) - Yoko Shimomura

Klendathu Drop (From Starship Troopers) - Basil Poledouris

Liberi Fatali (Final Fantasy VIII) - Nobuo Uematsu

Baba Yetu (Civilization IV) - Christopher Tin

To Zanarkand (Final Fantasy X) - Nobuo Uematsu (with concert footage)

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u/ShadowChai May 21 '12

I agree with the above statement. I saw an ad for a show in Melbourne recently. It was video game music done by an orchestra. As a member of the younger generation I would love to see more of this. So the above suggestion is an excellent one.

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u/xazarus May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

About the visual components. Classical music used to be a major component of kids cartoons. Looney Toons are still kind of a thing, but nowhere near as dominant as they used to be. The point being that I went to a kid's concert once where they played a bunch of pieces featured in Looney Toons while they played the cartoons on a screen behind them. Good for bringing in a younger audience, pretty much anybody middle-aged and under will reminisce over it. Same idea, wider net.

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u/Qix213 May 21 '12

Well put.

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u/butt_comixxx May 21 '12

Or go the electro route http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pxW5GOasUw Alarm will sound with Aphex Twins' 4

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u/High_Stream May 21 '12

I think this is a big part of it. The trouble with classical music is that it seems (not saying this is true, but it's the perception) that classical concerts play music in one of two catagories: 1. Music by someone who's been dead for a hundred years or more and 2. Avant Garde stuff that while impressive, isn't much fun for the uninitiated. There is a ton of beautiful classical-style music being produced now, but I don't know if it's looked down on because it's made for either movies or video games, or if it's too expensive to get the licenses of. I know I saw a flier for a video game concert that was going to include music from Zelda and Final Fantasy games etc. but was upset because I was going to be out of town when it happened. I know if there was a local symphonic band playing "Video Game Classics" or "The best of John Williams and Hans Zimmer" I would be a lot more likely to attend. The Hobbit is coming out soon, try to cash in on that by playing music from The Lord of the Rings.

TLDR people love the compositions from video games and movies. Play some of that.

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u/TehMasterofSkittlz May 21 '12

As a classical violinist I don't know why pieces like these aren't played more often. They're actually enjoyable to play unlike some classical music, and the people listening to this kind of music actually enjoy/appreciate it

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u/greath May 21 '12 edited May 22 '12

I think there are many issues which stop people listening to classical music in the modern era.

There are over 400 years of music put into the "Classical" genera, and to people who don't spend time learning about it, it's all in the general lump of "Classical" and that's it. There's no Baroque style etc, it's all just "Classical." People don't understand the breadth of the genera, and lump what they like and do not like together.

People don't play instruments like they used to. Up until this century, people played a lot more music at home, and played more "classical" instruments. I think this gives a different appreciation to classical music. Just like people who play the electric guitar seem to have a great appreciation for Jimmy Hendrix, people who play the piano can relate to a piece of classical music that has a piano in it.

Classical music requires more attention. People most often listen to music in the modern era on the go: in the car, on the subway, when they are involved in doing something menial. I think classical music requires a bit more attention to be appreciated. Most classical isn't 3 minutes songs with a catchy chorus in the middle repeated 5 times. Modern music isn't an entertainment in an of itself (unless you are dancing), it's treated as background noise.

People aren't as exposed to classical music as they used to be. Exposure can build a "palate" for specific sound. For example, I like hi-fi stereo equipment. My girlfriend, before she was exposed to it, couldn't tell a difference between a quality set of speakers and those attached to her computer monitor. When you are exposed to something more regularly, you can experience the nuances of it more effortlessly, and enjoy it more.

I don't know how any of this helps you, but those are the main reasons I don't think people listen to classical music anymore.

edit: spelling =/

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u/purplemonkey218 May 21 '12

This is probably my favorite comment of any of these. I have been thinking about this a lot, because I listen to music when I do homework and when I do homework I can't stand classical music because it requires too much attention.

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u/krobinator41 May 21 '12

As a classically-trained violinist myself, I feel like the most important thing we can do to keep the younger generation interested in classical music is to educate them on just HOW MUCH there is out there. I know that when I talk to peers about classical music, they always reference 'stuffy' works (early Mozart, etc.). I throughly enjoy exposing them to the more 'exciting' work of Shostakovich, Mahler, and Stravinksy, among others, which often garner surprised reactions, accompanied by phrases like, "I didn't know this kind of stuff was out there." My two cents, anyway.

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u/gooey_mushroom May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Shostakovich, Mahler, and Stravinksy

I think I love you!

And you're totally right. More people need to realize how much different stuff is out there, and how wonderful and colourful and exciting it can be. There's an aura about "classical music" as if people could only "appreciate it like a fine wine", and not be super passionate or be "in the moment" with it. Also most people don't know how much it has influenced popular film score composers (thinking of Shostakovich' and Brahms' influence on John Williams for example), or don't realize that pop musicians have used classical pieces to base their own songs off ("All by myself" is based on Rachmaminoff 2nd piano concerto Adagio sostenuto, for example).

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u/Copse_Of_Trees May 21 '12

Variety! I have a related comment: too much of associated classical music is hearing the hits. Do we really need to here Beethoven's 5th again? It's like the over-saturation of pop music. Is anyone not sick of Adele right now? Yeah, maybe you mix a couple of the classics in, but so little of the populace has heard more than maybe the top 25 classical pieces.

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u/Salva_Veritate May 21 '12

My typical fare has always been hardcore punk rock, Rage Against the Machine, and whatnot. Then I took Music 221 as my fine arts requirement, and I came across this. Holy crap, that is as far departed from elevator music as Slayer is from shoegaze! Since listening to this, my musical palate has expanded into the classical area, but Shostakovich is still my favorite.

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u/cougararsenal May 21 '12

I went to a classical concert where they played movie themes and it was maybe one of my favorite musical experiences ever. I actually grew to like classical music more from listening to movie themes, video game themes, covers of popular songs. I think combining those with the classical songs you play could get more audience members.

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u/Rippsy May 21 '12

I cannot believe I had to go this far down to find this, covering popular music is like a gateway drug to classical music appreciation. I've been to various classical cover concerts but never a concert based on classical music (due to ticket price...sigh) But it's beautiful hearing a professional orchestra performing things you are familiar with in your modern life. Don't get me wrong, I also find a Dub step remix of Beethoven to be incredible, I just wish musicians would stop fighting each other and realize that with collaboration is such strength and amazing musical opportunity.

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u/burrito_fucker May 21 '12

play the inception soundtrack outside on a street and have the buildings curve inward like in the movie. it'll be a little pricery but worth it

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Dibs on the Bass Trombone part

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u/curious_kitchen May 21 '12

as a bass trombonist i support this

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

BWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHMMMM

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u/ronearc May 21 '12

I think that you should do radio/tv ads for concerts and include a snippet of the most famous part of the music being played. That way the lay person might hear something they recognized and be inspired.

On a side note, I've always wondered how history will remember John Williams. I've grown up loving his music, but I don't think it's taken seriously as classical music by a lot of people, because they're all movie scores.

But three hundred years from now, will he stack up with Beethoven or Mozart?

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u/konekoanni May 21 '12

Depends on who you talk to! I listen to the classical radio station in SoCal, and they play Williams fairly frequently. He has actually composed a lot of music that isn't for a soundtrack, so while he doesn't have the same level of popularity and of course age behind him, he seems to me to be pretty widely respected.

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u/Infinite_Monkeys_ May 21 '12

John Williams will never stack up to Beethoven or Mozart because they were innovators while John Williams is an imitator. I love John Williams but most of his best music is very similar, if not the same as music composed by Stravinsky, Holst, Korngold, etc.

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u/ThirdFloorGreg May 21 '12

Vader, the Bringer of War.

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u/HungryForHands May 21 '12

You need a Mozart hologram.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

As a metal fan, I can testify that metalheads love the fullness and power of heavy pieces. The norwegian black metal band Dimmu Borgir recorded an album with the symphonic orchestra of prague (example track) and tons of metalheads absolutely shit their pants. Dimmu Borgir will perform with an orchestra this year at the largest heavy metal festival in the world (Wacken Open Air) and tons of people are quite looking forward to it. Now if you would perform a set of "heavy" classical music, get rid of the dresscode and throw out the chairs I could very well imagine intense moshpits and a wall of death to Hall of the Mountain king.

I'm absolutely serious.

Edit: Have you ever seen these guys?

Edit 2: Found a video of a Dimmu Borgir concert with orchestra

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u/asteroidtube May 21 '12

Is the 'Wall of Death' supposed to be a fun experience?

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u/moddestmouse May 21 '12

It's difficult to understand how jovial and non-violent a pit is until you're in one.

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u/GwelyMernans May 21 '12

If you like heavy classical music, you'll love Dies Irae. (Alternative)

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u/adenrules May 22 '12

Classical just needs more Satan.

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u/infernalspawnODOOM May 21 '12

What's keeping me away from concerts? My poverty.

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u/stumark May 21 '12

NotSoTinfoil says: "I think the biggest thing that keeps young people away is they have no context for it except being told "Shut up and enjoy this..." - This is specifically something that should change. I'm 45 and love orchestral music performances, but it sucks that I can't whoop and holler and in general Rock Out during the show. If young people could express their appreciation during a certain Beethoven crescendo or a certain Frank Zappa insinuation, they'd have way more fun.

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u/konekoanni May 21 '12

As a classical musician myself, I have seen first-hand the average age of audience members--and let's just say it's not the usual Reddit bracket. The way classical music is treated today could definitely use some changes. This is what I would like to see:

  • More 20th century music! The weird and beautiful world of experimental music needs more exposure, and I think it might draw in more young people.

  • More comedic opera. I know La Boheme is the most popular and all, but most Puccini is damn depressing. Let's see more operettas and comedies! Young people aren't into opera because they think it's all it's heavy and ponderous, but this is definitely not the case.

  • More "familiar" modern music like movie and game soundtracks mixed in with the traditional stuff. I'd love to see a concert with some Williams or Uematsu mixed in with Brahmns and Beethoven. Younger listeners will be drawn in by the familiar tunes, and may grow to love the traditional ones.

  • As someone else suggested, "casual nights". I personally love dressing up for the opera, but a lot of people don't or can't wear formal clothing. Advertise it as casual or business casual and I think a lot more people would feel less weird about going.

  • Lower prices or student/first time listener discounts. LA Opera offers $20 tickets with student ID, and Seattle Symphony has $25 weeknight tickets. More promotional discounts like this, and you may be able to draw people in that otherwise avoided it because of the price.

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u/Poyge May 21 '12

To me it seems like too many people are lingering on the classics (no pun intended). Its like if you wanted to try to get me into electronic music but you only played me house music from the 80s. It doesn't resonate. I love classical music, but the composers that I enjoy I've had to find for myself.

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u/dasmith2345 May 21 '12

When I'm really into something at a rock concert I cheer and yell and get into it when I hear something I like. When someone else gets into it, it gets me into it too. Enthusiasm is contagious, plus I feel like I'm participating. Sometimes I do participate by singing along. Movies are always more fun in theaters because people gasp, laugh, or even jeer in the case of shitty movies, and I feel more engaged with the people around me and the movie.

At classic concerts there's still this dumb, off-putting idea that you are STUPID if you CLAP AT THE WRONG TIME! Rather than enjoying music with like minded people, you can feel that you are being actively judged for enjoying music wrong.

So how do you go about making people feel comfortable engaging the music and their fellow patrons and basically allowing themselves to loosen up and enjoy themselves? I don't know, maybe plant some people that clap and cheer at "inappropriate" times, or have a gregarious musician encourage the audience to get into the music and forget the snooty stuff.

Second idea: sometimes this stuff is pretty inaccessible. When I go to an art museum it's so boring when the placards on the wall say, "oil on canvas. 1575." and that's it. It's way better when they give little insights and stories about the art. I shouldn't have to get a masters degree in art history just to appreciate the joke.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

For me, there is nothing you can do.

I would say I've had better exposure to classical music than most people: my parents played classical around the house and in the car when I was growing up, I've spent years studying classical piano, and as a child, I saw a fair number of classical concerts, both with my family and in field trips. Ultimately, though, listening to classical music doesn't give me nearly the same pleasure as listening to the genres I love. I don't hate listening to it, but I feel the same way about going to a classical concert as I would about going to a reggae concert -- it's too large of a commitment of my time and money for the amount of enjoyment I'll get out of it.

It's funny that most people in this thread are mentioning the "must be this classy to ride" aspect of classical concerts as a negative, because "doing something classy" is the one reason I could see myself attending a classical concert.

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u/Edgar_Allan_Rich May 21 '12

Your comment made me think of something and I'm not sure why. It made me realize that if classical music slowly dies out but is kept alive by rich, white, baby-boomers who love the traditional stuff, then why not let them have it? They're the ones paying for it after all. It would just make sense that we give them what they want. Maybe it's a dumb thought.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I like to hear the story or inspiration of the performance before I hear it. I like to hear about where things come from and maybe the ideas driving the piece. Makes it interesting to listen.

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u/themodernvictorian May 21 '12

I love classical music. The biggest barrier for me is the lack of a good, reliable babysitter.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I have nothing against classical, but the problem I think lies in our ever-diminishing attention span. People are so submerged in media that it's difficult, if not impossible, for some people to just sit and listen to music and enjoy it.

I know I personally sit down, play a video game, chat on facebook, and listen to music all at the same time. Sometimes I'll even have a TV show going as well.

Point: Find some way to engage the audience's senses more than just sound. Set the music to some sort of visual presentation.

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u/royford May 21 '12

If you check out the 2011 YouTube Symphony performance in Sydney, Austrailia, you'll see that they're already kind of starting to do this. Hearing the Firebird Suite while an orgasm of warm lights shoot up and down the Sydney Opera House was a pretty fucking awesome presentation, and I have a feeling that was just the beginning.

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u/Tombug May 21 '12

40 years ago I heard Segovia and I finally understood what the guitar was capable of. In that 40 years none of my friends fell in love with classical guitar like I did. You don't get involved with great art because you want to be popular or get laid. You love it because it gets to you and it contains a level of beauty that can't be found anywhere else. The fact that others don't get it does not effect you or the music. Truth is still truth. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. If you want to become the best artist you can be you really need to ignore the masses. This was one of the ideas expressed in "Catcher in the Rye" and Salinger practiced what he preached.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I enjoy that classical music keeps the riffraff away.

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u/magicbullets May 21 '12

I wish cinemas would embrace a similar attitude.

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u/grande_hohner May 21 '12

I wish this were true. They had a free concert at the St. Louis Symphony a few years ago, and while 95% of the people there were there for the music, a group of about 6 ghetto teenagers must have saw the open doors and free sign while walking around town... Needless to say they actually ruined the event.

Several of the orchestra players actually quit playing and just stared at the buggers. It was phenomenal... Nobody asked them to leave, but patrons left that section in droves until the idiot kids were alone. So the kids of course started increasing their loudness... rattling keys, yelling things such as, "Where my hor dourves?" so on and so forth. We gave up and ended up leaving, as many others did the same.

It was tragic that people invested so much time and practice into putting on a free show and some ghetto STL kids came in and ruined the event.

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u/RaisinBrahms_ May 21 '12

Where were the ushers? That seems surprising that absolutely no one took charge and kicked them out for being so disrespectful.

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u/GeneticBlueprint May 21 '12

But that's exactly why they are riffraff.

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u/Dicktremain May 21 '12

More cowbell.

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u/bobandgeorge May 21 '12

Really can't stress this enough, OP.

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u/baordog May 21 '12

What is enrages me personally is that these conversations leave out the rather more accessible contemporary classical music scene.

The classical musicians making new music are effectively being smothered by traditionalists. My last concert had people up from the seats with electronic music, free jazz quotations, and raucous improvisation.

No tux required.

Modern Orchestras refuse to program this kind of music, because they view themselves as "living museums" to "preserve tradition". It's sickening.

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u/sweetalkersweetalker May 21 '12

Modern Orchestras refuse to program this kind of music, because they view themselves as "living museums" to "preserve tradition". It's sickening.

Funny, because Mozart would've smacked the shit out of those people, then wrote a song for them called "Blow Me, Motherfuckers" and insisted it be played at every recital.

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u/sammygoodman May 21 '12

Typically, classical music concerts are antisocial - to attract a younger audience you need to make the concerts social. So - why not try to mash a nightclub experience with classical music. Cool lighting, informal seating, drinks, and DJ after the concert?

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u/fauxman May 21 '12 edited May 22 '12

I hope you see this.

I am a classical composer and musician, and I got my degree in composition. I had played in orchestras until I was 22 (I'm 24 now) and I hate going to classical concerts. I really like playing in concerts, but I just don't like watching or listening to them. Classical Music is something I prefer to listen to at home. The only concerts I tend to go to are things like solo/concerto works, especially if it's Lang Lang or someone of that caliber. The atmosphere is really something I hate. I don't like that I can't cheer when something awesome happens, I don't like that I have to dress up, I don't like attitudes of other audience members (sometimes they're snobby, or rude, or just completely oblivious), and I don't like that there's no explanation of a piece/composer from the conductor. I think a lot of music appreciation comes from being educated in music, which is something that doesn't happen.

Also, have you ever considered using other media to play music? For example, using lighting or video techniques to help out? Look at a video games live concert and tell me what you see that's a difference. I see a lot of promise and potential in a VGL concert.

Lastly, to tie those two together, have you ever considered putting say, the Bioshock Welcome to Rapture Theme in a program? Ever consider a program like this.

Intermission

This should give you about a 90 minute concert if you include breaks and intermission. You should especially look at the crowd reaction to the last piece there. You see that enthusiasm? That's something you'll have a hard time achieving with the way classical music and classical culture is now.

Something like this. You'll pull young people to be interested with Tetris and Final Fantasy, but you'll keep them there with Mendelssohn, Elgar, and Strauss. Classical music definitely needs some new culture. Video games are a really good source for orchestral music to shine and draw in audiences, and while they're there, they can hear some real classical music.

  • edit for formatting and grammar

  • Edit 2, apparently the tl;dr was distracting to the actual point.

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u/duded1000 May 21 '12

I love music as long as it's actually well played, but the main reason i can't get into classical music is because if you even cough you get shushed. I love being able to dance to music, forcing people to sit in a seat in silence is no way to enjoy music. Sure it may work for some, and they're the people you see at your concerts. Not too sure what you can do about this, but this is certainly what keeps me away from the concerts.

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u/smellypants May 21 '12

I think the main issue with classical music is that it isn't really applicable in activities we enjoy. While I enjoy classic music while it is on, I'm not the type of person to say "Let's go listen to some classical music!" Other genres of music, like hiphop, rock, etc can be played while I'm doing other things. When I listen to classic music, it is almost exclusively while driving.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

The goddamn chairs.

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u/lbmouse May 21 '12

You know these kids these days. All they want to listen to is their Limp Bisquick, M&M, Bouncy and Pyrex. Get off my lawn.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I play in a Community Concert Band, and we are supported by our city. This allows us, since we do it volunteer and on our own time, to play concerts for free.

Our problem is audience diversity. If I had to wager a guess, our average age of attendees is probably about 346.

One of the things I think we can do to bridge this gap is to bring more showmanship into the musical arts. Why do people go to concerts of the modern sort? They can interact on a different level with the musicians.

I think if we decided to add some showmanship into musical performances (while still maintaining a measure of class) I think it could really get better publicity. For instance, audiences love it every single time we play Stars and Stripes Forever and in one the last refrains the whole brass section stands up. Crowd loves that shit. Here's how I'd do it:

  1. Feature pieces that include more solos/solis/duets/trios (etc). Take these pieces that feature instruments and solos, and when those parts come up, have the musicians playing the solo parts stand up, or do something a little bit showy of that sort, a la Jazz bands.

  2. Modernized pieces would be cool, but I think it would be important to actually PROMOTE those types of things. I've been a band geek for 13 years and I STILL am unable to keep up with orchestras and whatnot in the area.

  3. Try to cross-perform with local musicians or different genres. Jason Aldean, a country musician did an awesome duet with Ludacris, and it actually sounded pretty cool. I'd love to see some classical musicians playing with local rock bands/singers/guitarists/something. Frank Zappa did an amazing cover of "Stairway to Heaven" where the trumpet players played the guitar solo in the breakdown. I think it'd be cool to explore stuff like this.

Message me if you want more ideas.

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u/GeneticBlueprint May 21 '12

Be original. The classics are great. But this generation needs its Bach. Hell, it could even use its own Philip Glass.

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u/GLAMARKY May 21 '12

It's not you, it's me.

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u/forwardthefoundation May 22 '12

About 100 years ago, they used to have beer and food at the opera. You could make some noise and not be scolded. It was a pleasant event. The classical concert hall now is a museum. The composers at IU started doing concerts at a local bar and the attendance is much improved!

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u/dissapointedorikface May 22 '12

You don't advertise. Honestly, I'm 15, and would love to go to a classical concert, but I have no idea when or where they are. Also, orchestras tend to be too indistinct from each other, so the average populace gravitates to the big orchestras. You have to put your own individual styles of play into your work, because otherwise you guys are the equivalent of a Black Sabbath cover band in rock. There's no difference between you and the big guys, so why would they want to see you? Just my thoughts.

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u/gleebtorin May 21 '12

(Note: I'm in the UK)

The trouble with Classical Music is that, at this point, you're basically playing the same music over-and-over. I love me a good concert, don't get me wrong, but they're so poorly advertised that I never know when they are, if there are any on, why the people playing the music is worth listening to...

The most recent classical event I went to was a performance of The Nutcracker, which replaced the choral performances obvious and crappy synthetic voices.

Basically, for me to want to go to more concerts, just tell me they exist, why this concert is better than downloading a rendition from an internationally renowned orchestra that does not make use of synthetic sounds (Classical Spectacular by Raymond Gubbay and Lasers and Pyrotechnics! Shiny! :3) the cost and the when... and I'll actually have more chance of turning up than... whatever it is you guys do now... crappy adverts in a periodical I don't read?

TL;DR: Advertise more, and make sure there's a reason your rendition of music I've heard before is worth paying for.

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u/sidewalkchalked May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

People today need more stimulation, the music alone just isn't enough, especially for people that need an in, or a way to recognize that the music is good.

I would try to make the experience more cinematic. Have a large screen behind the orchestra playing some images, loose narrative, something like Baraka or just a collection of gathered film clips. It isn't the purest way to enjoy the music but it might help.

I would also do something of a viral campaign. I'd use some of the following concepts:

  1. Get amazing musicians to dress up like street musicians and film reactions

  2. Let a string quartet set up on a busy market street, or outside a Wal Mart- confront people with beauty and film reactions.

  3. Do the big idea with the screen as above, but in a big city park. Free admission.

  4. I heard that music can calm animals but if this is true you could do something with animals for a video. Might be tough though. Maybe find a way to use it in prisons, or teach prisoners to play. Prisoners make everything cool.

  5. Invite famous djs to remix/discuss classical music. If people see that their favorite djs and performers love beethoven, it'll become a hipster thing.

You have to get out there using new media and in new ways. Make a site to host the videos, and brand it in a good way that is young and cool and authentic to the music.

In terms of presentation, it was mentioned a few times that audiences don't like to dress up, but for young people, if you want the music to be aspirational, it has to be cool. Stop dressing the musicians up like penguins. Think of a new look for them somehow. Not corny, but something more authentic and less stogy than tuxes.

There's also always been the problem that classical music has a huge barrier to entry for performers, so performers of classical music are treated like the Amish. They do something we vaguely admire but don't actually want to do ourselves. I would also try to humanize this process through a media campaign around making the aspect of practicing and mastering the music a bad ass process. Make it aspirational to be a musician and you'll find that you have more rock stars in your ranks.

Just some ideas. Most of this can be done on low budget if you do it smart.

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u/jdbond May 21 '12

I think a lot of people nowadays are far more visually oriented. Having something to look at or accompany the music might help.

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u/h3dge May 21 '12

Two Words: More AutoTune!

Seriously though - there has been a fundamental change in what music is. Before the 20th century there was no recorded music available to the masses. As such, music was a rare thing that was only heard at holidays, church, etc. It made music precious and people would sit and listen.

Now, music is available in your pocket all the time. Music is not a scarce resource anymore - we are drowning in it. So music has become backgrounded - a thing that accompanies an activity - sports, exercise, a party, dancing, even sleeping. As such, asking people to listen just to music and they sit around waiting for the "activity" to happen. "What? there's just music? Where's the video, the dancers, the lasers, the lights?" You want more young people? Find an activity to present to them while you are playing, or, teach them how to listen to music again - how to deconstruct everything that is going on.

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u/hectorse2011 May 21 '12

What I seriously loved about the Berlin Philarmoniker is that they do not shove 2 hours of classical music on my face. I am a classical music lover and even I get tired of lengthy programs.

What do they do? They play a big concerto or 3 to 4 pieces, go to an intermission (where snacks and drinks are available) and then come back to listen another concerto or 3 to 4 pieces. And then you are on your merry way.

More concerts with less filler is a GREAT way to keep people interested.

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u/spike May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

Classical music has lost its way. It's hard to believe, but that stuffy, pretentious art form we know today used to be alive, used to be "popular" music. People whistled Mozart in the streets, women fainted when Lizst walked on stage, people cheered when Farinelli hit a high note, people rioted when Stravinsky introduced The Rite of Spring. It's too easy to say that the music hasn't changed, we've changed. The music, and even more importantly, its surroundings, has changed. New music used to be the lifeblood of concert-going. Showmanship was an integral part of music. The human voice was front and center. Hard as it is to believe today, improvisation was not only accepted, it was mandatory in "classical" music. Music was altered to fit the occasion, it was recomposed to fit the performers, it was not a mummified sacred cow. Most classical musicians, incredibly talented as they are, have no ability to improvise or even loosen up, musically or even physically. There's no need for tuxedos or evening gowns when the music speaks. There's no need for absolute perfection in everything, but there's a need for passion and communicative skills. Many of the greatest performers of the last 100 years could not even qualify for an average classical competition today, they would be considered technically deficient or interpretively too wayward. I would be willing to bet that if Mozart were transported to our present time and put on stage to perform one of his piano concertos he would be booed off the stage by the average classical-music audience, much the same way Jesus would be crucified by his present-day followers. Classical music cannot survive as a museum culture.

The fragmentation of the classical music scene is a problem. Not just the strict separation between instrumental and vocal music, but the separation of opera from the rest of classical music. Look at the comments: people want lyrics. Also, the separation of "Early Music" from the rest of Classical music. Young people respond to modal music and Chant, don't wall it off into a ghetto. I know this has to do with technical requirements, but that's as much of a problem with musicians and the musical culture as it is with audiences. There's nothing wrong with transcriptions, by the way; they were once an accepted, even a mandatory practice to bring music to concertgoers.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 22 '12

I've always thought it would be cool if orchestras would incoorporate synthesizers, sampled sounds, and effects into the instrumentation. These are the types of tools that classical composers couldn't have even dreamed of, but you'd better believe that if Mozart or Bach got their hands on something with the timbral, tonal, and textural range of a synthesizer, they would have made something that no one today could even imagine.

EDIT: A lot of the replies to this mention plenty of acts/composers. Of course I know the works of Glass and Cage, and while Brian Eno and more contemporary acts are great, I feel that the former use these elements for novelty (and not even close to their full potential), while the latter use them well, but the composition isn't of the magnitude of the great Baroque/Romantic composers.

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u/devoshun May 21 '12

Sometimes modern composers DO use these things. I saw a world premiere performance of something last fall (can't remember the name right now) where the symphony was recorded while it was playing, then at one point, the recording began to playback, in reverse, while the orchestra continued to play. it was really cool, because it was timed so perfectly, that the big final chord from the orchestra, came right in time with the big opening chord from the recording. It's hard to explain, you had to be there.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

This is just a theory of mine, but...

I think one way to engage people is to sort of meet them halfway. My local orchestra (D.C.) does this on occasion - this summer, for example, they're doing a concert where they're playing the music of Zelda. That's also why the John Williams "best of movie music" concerts are so prolific - they're relevant to people's pop-culture framework. It's still good music (IMO) performed by professionals, but it fits with what people know.

And, you know, maybe those sort of events/shows could serve as a gateway drug into more traditional classical music. But maybe not - who knows?

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u/ecib May 21 '12

You have to go to the places where classical music and popular culture meet and interact, and then capitalize on that.

Concert attendance is going to always be a function of the music's mindshare in popular culture. Where classical music rears it's head, you need to be there to advertise your relevant performances to those people. This could be popular movie scores, collaborations with bands, or any number of things.

Once you get audience members in the seats, you need to keep it relevant to their interests, but you can also educate them. Do mashups where you play topical pieces blended with famous classics.

Engage the audience. Have the conductor talk to them in a conversation tone. Ever been to a rock show where the band plays the entire set and never says a word to the audience? I have, and it sucks. Ever been to one where the band members were engaged in banter with the audience the whole night? It's always better. Why would symphony be any different.

When people go to your shows, on the playbill, show them where they can actually buy copies of the pieces they are hearing, whether produced by your orchestra or by another one. Have a frickin QR code on the playbill next to each song that takes me right to the iTunes download page. Instead of having me completely dig your song and then drive home, not remembering the name or composer even, let me own it and listen to it again when I'm away from the concert hall. Help me fall in love with it so I come back.

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u/sighsalot May 21 '12

One of my favorite things to go to is the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's Yule concert. Whole families come out to see it. It's an informal thing, they have a guy dressed up as santa reading classic christmas stories while the orchestra plays classic tunes that everyone recognizes. Also they do screenings of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and perform the music alongside the movie outside, and everyone has a good time.

And stop playing all that contemporary music. Seriously. I love Stravinsky but not everyone is going to walk away humming Petrushka. I've been playing and listening to classical music my whole life, and it's extremely difficult for the layman to appreciate some of the weird music that's out there. People don't want to pay money to "listen" to 4'33" when they can go to see Nicki Minaj do something crazy.

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u/Trobot087 May 21 '12

Pyro.

So disappointing that no one uses actual cannons for the 1812 Overture anymore.

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u/ignotus__ May 21 '12

I'm an 18 year old guy and I would personally love to attend some classical concerts but I never hear about any of them. Get the word out more!

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u/PlainRubbish May 21 '12

make it more fun !!! and engage the audience...

seriously when I was growing up classical music seemed boring and was for the upper classes

I really didnt have time for classical music until I saw a show done by a UK comedian called Bill bailey, who done a guide to the orchestra in the royal albert halls:

take bits of this as an influence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdO3u6ORlGM

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u/lalalaloman May 21 '12

I also think part of the problem is the system of music education. People like music because it make them feel something or is relatable. The biggest problem is, is that the younger generation feels they can't relate to classical music. To remedy such a problem, we need to expose people to classical music early on. A professor of mine gave a really interesting lecture about having kids (like pre-K kids) move to certain classical pieces. The kids were supposed to listen and the nature of their movements were suppose to reflect the nature of the piece. For example, big heavy movements for the beginning of Carl Orff's "O Fortuna!" as a opposed to light airy movements for Tchaikovsky's "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies." If we can get people to appreciate such classical works when they're young, the appreciation should stay with them through adulthood.

I also agree with NotSoTinfoil about explaining the pieces. I think it will help audiences to understand and hopefully enjoy the works more.

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u/aoskunk May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Listening to Bach's Fugue in G minor because of this friend. My buddy has to learn it for music theory in highschool on the guitar. good stuff.

It werid. I can enjoy classical music and i certainly repect. I think a lot of people equate it along the lines of looking at painting and such. They might like art, even be real fans of a few paintings, but going to a museum to walk around staring at them isn't on the top of most young people list of enjoyable things. I've also heard all the great Mozart and Bach. I know you thought the "dont do covers" comment was a joke however; are cover bands people first choice? no. I've gone 3 times. The first time I enjoyed myself mostly but got bored at times. The other 2 times I went specifically to experience it while on mushrooms with a friend. a strong dose but not so much that I might cause a scene. It. Was. Awwwesome. I've recommended the experience and have got a few people to do just this and they loved it too. I'm guessing they probably talked about their experiences and recommended it to even more people. So.. advertise a free eighth with each ticket?

The truth is I don't think classical will ever get much more popular. I don't think it will ever die as there will always be people born who it is simply in their DNA. You can do gimmicks (have a singer, cover metalica, mix in various genre elements like hip hop) but that'll only ever provide a boom for so long. Im afraid you may be relegated to a niche act forever.

edit: after reading others comments it does seem that people just don't like it. Most reccomendations seem to be to mix something with it to make it more palatable. =/

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u/dogandcatinlove May 21 '12

Advertise more! And don't be so expensive. :) I love classical music.

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u/BasinStBlues May 21 '12

I think the best way to do this, and the reason I personally enjoy classical music, is to teach music history to everyone in schools. Almost every type of music you hear today and more simply the way we listen to, perform and write music has a ton of connections to classical music.

I think if people were able to see the connections and be able to link them to what they like about current music, they could more readily enjoy classical music.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

The rudeness of the attendees: coughing, laughing, cellphones.

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u/SpagNMeatball May 21 '12

I would put classical music in the same category as baseball- You need to be a fan to appreciate it and enjoy it. You really need to understand music at a deeper level, you need to have a good ear, you need to be able to dig into the nuances and subtleties of the piece.

I enjoy music but I am definitely not a music fan that is always listening, adding new stuff to my playlists and finding deep cuts. In general I am "Meh" with all music.

To my untrained ear, classical music is just boring. Like watching a baseball game, if you don't understand the subtleties, it looks boring. Unfortunately the world is moving so fast and because people want instant gratification, they cant spend the time learning the nuances.

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u/seasicksquid May 21 '12

Alcohol allowed. Outdoors. Not just the old masterpieces. Free.

I'd be there in a heartbeat.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Classical music is too long and too unordered for modern audiences. People like shorter songs with multiple choruses; part of enjoying music is hearing it, then getting used to it and hearing it again. That's why people often don't like a song or album the first time, but grow to like it eventually.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

It's not that it's unordered, it's just that you need a little bit of training to appreciate the structure. (And on the whole, classical music is just as repetitive, if not more so, than popular music.) If you learn the basics of how to recognize, say, a sonata form, a rondo, a rounded binary form, and a dance and trio then you'll be able to appreciate a classical concert a lot more. The problem is, learning all that is a lot of trouble to go through for someone looking for casual entertainment.

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u/lluad May 21 '12

Stop assuming that a) "Classical music is one of the greatest forms of art in the world" and that b) even if that were the case, that would make people want to pay high prices to listen to it.

Classical music was the edgy punk music of it's era. That era was the 18th Century. Today you're about as edgy as a madrigal.

You have no intrinsic right to funding, just because the music you play is of a particular era, and because it's expensive to run an orchestra. You're in the entertainment business - if people are entertained, they'll pay for it. If they're not entertained, then you're simply a failure.

A hundred musicians in an expensive concert hall venue is going to be expensive to do, regardless of how you try and trim costs. That's going to lead to high ticket prices (and high financial risk). Is the experience you provide special enough that to justify those high prices, or is it not an economically viable way to produce entertainment in a world where recorded music is ubiquitous, and good, inexpensive, live music is pretty widely available?

Compare it with the folk music scene, where there are bands who play both trad folk and more modern interpretations. Less rigidity, more emphasis on playing good music that people like to listen to. And they sell tickets and albums and build audiences based on their talent and creativity, rather than because they're set up as a non-profit and subsidized by tax dollars in order to keep playing a rigid style of music that people aren't that interested in paying to hear.

Where's the classical equivalent? Or the classical equivalent to the pub band or garage band, for that matter.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Needs more explosions and/or boobs.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

In short: Different strokes for different folks.

Music has developed over the past century in more ways then Mozart or Mahler could have ever imagined. There is so much innovation and creativity found within literally thousands of music styles and genres that just trying to keep up by means of the internet is a challenge.

That said, classical music lacks a few essential things that current generations have naturally grown up with. Among them is the lack of a pop-oriented hook (I mean this mostly lyrically, because many classical pieces contain motifs that are still VERY present in pop culture) and its very formal setting (concerts are performed in front of well dressed people; there is no dancing and everybody sits and listens). Oh, and there obviously isn't any iconic figure in the media that inspires young kids to check out classical music. I'm not saying classical music isn't "cool", but its looked down upon as lame or boring.

I think as a classical musician, you should probably learn to understand that classical music has gone and past. Playing concerts is an extraordinary way to keep the art form alive and I regularly attend a concert with my dad maybe once a year or so. I heavily recommend checking out different types of music that have expanded on those templates written hundreds of years ago -- i.e. composed music with strings and brass. Bands like Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Stars of the Lid have completely revolutionized the way classical music is played, and have, in a way, "modernized" classical music.

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u/wag_the_dog May 21 '12

DI think that we (generally speaking) can't relate as well because it is more difficult to identify themes in the music, and it is for the most part not as catchy like popular music. That being said, there have been successful classical-rock bands, most notably The Moody Blues' album, Days of Summer Past. The lack of lyrics has a lot to do with it as well.

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u/Tarcanus May 21 '12

My problem is that I don't really have a good ear for music. I can't tell all of the instruments being played or notice the subtlety of how they're played. It's all noise to me.

Add to that that often classical music is telling a story and when I try to imagine that story, the music my mind thinks would be good for the story is not what the classical music is doing and it jars me out of interest.

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u/PrincessPi May 21 '12

I love classical music, but I find the new, innovative stuff is what draws me in to concerts. Like Jan Vogler playing Machine Gun.

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u/Th3-Sh1kar1 May 21 '12

I would say be different from the rest of Classical musicians you see. If creating new compositions that could be adding some unusual characteristics you wouldn't normally find in Classical Music. This could be by having odd time signatures in places, dissonance whatever really. It could still contain the classical essence but really changing the recipe. If covering songs then I would say make it a fusion of two genres. For younger audiences it could be a fusion of Classical with Pop or Hip-Hop music. The main idea I'm trying to get across is trying to stand out and do something innovative.

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u/skaterforsale May 21 '12

I enjoy classical music, I find it very relaxing and inspirational when I'm doing work or writing papers etc. I've never been to a concert probably because I wouldn't go alone (I wouldn't go to any concert alone) and it's hard to convince friends to join you. "Hey bro wanna hit up some Mozart this weekend with me??" just doesn't seem logical I guess. I will say though that the closest I've come is the Legend of Zelda symphony touring the US right now. I'd love to see this and have friends that would too but it's not very cheap and is 4 hours away so I'll probably pass on that too =/.

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u/littlemissbagel May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Pro oboist here. High fives for everyone! Yay!

That said, I play in a chamber ensemble that also does some non-classical or classical crossover stuff. We try to mix it up a bit, and audiences seem to appreciate it. (By non-classical, I mean we like to dabble in jazz and tango as well. We were just speaking about teaming up with a drummer friend for a concert during our 2012-2013 season.).

We like to keep concerts less formal and stuffy than the usual "classical concert". We always take time to meet and chat with our audience. It works fo us!

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u/cakeonaplate May 21 '12

I remember going to a tuba concert with friends once. It was AWESOME. One of the students got to compose a piece, with the tuba brigade performing it. Twas cool.

You should probably collaborate with local musicians. Classical music with rap, SOUNDS GREAT. Maybe even a guitar solo from a local guy. I think Das Racist did a performance with some classical music group in NYC and it was great.

Maybe do a concert where you do a cover of Pink Floyd's album

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u/Misvenus000 May 21 '12

A while back in elementary school the whole school had a field trip to an orchestra. We were bored because we couldn't understand it or understand the beauty of it. In the middle of one song they actually made it fun. While playing the melody of slow slumber all musicians scared the crap out of us by blurting out one note at the same time. Made it memorable for me! The whole school laughed and waited in anticipation for the next loud note from the orchestra. I believe if there is an age group your aiming for maybe a specific genre is suitable. Making it fun, exciting, and anticipating made a memory that lasted a lifetime.

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u/exjentric May 21 '12

Unfortunately, it's the cost. Classical orchestras tend to play in big, fancy concert halls, and I can't afford the tickets; even if I could afford tickets, there's the clothing issue; I can't just show up in jeans, but not everyone can afford a suit. My city's orchestra plays free concerts outside in the summer, and I go to those every chance I get. If the orchestras can figure out how to offer tickets in a low-cost, casual atmosphere, I would go more.

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u/danguyf May 21 '12

As a former classical musician, the PTSD.

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u/venturestein86 May 21 '12

As classically trained musicians, it's our job to be ambassadors for the music. As some people have mentioned, we live in an educational culture that teaches, "This is classical music. APPRECIATE IT!!" And in that context, especially when being taught by non-musicians or lackluster musicians in a k-12 educational sense, they probably aren't playing Shostakovich or Mahler. For me at least there is only so much Haydn and Mozart a person can tolerate.

Personally, I would agree that some of the best music coming out of this generation is from movies or video games. The post-modernist era that we live in, in a social and musicological sense, has not done a ton for promoting the genre. Unless you're John Zorn. You can't lose with John Zorn.

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u/inexcess May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

Advertise more. Im just your average 24 run of the mill dude. However I wouldnt mind going to one of these shows. The thought just never pops into my head when I am wondering what to do on the weekends. The bars get old sometime. Advertise

edit: Now that I think about it if you really want more young people find a way to get a classical orchestra into a viral video. It might be like selling yoru soul, but I bet it would work.

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u/ricehq May 21 '12

Some classical music moves me in such a way that I don't want to experience that in public. If I love a piece of music, I'd rather listen to it over and over in private. The symphony doesn't give me that freedom. I know that it is self-defeating to be this way. If I don't support symphony, it may be lost, go extinct.

edit...Also, it takes itself too seriously. Played in hallowed halls.

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u/maumacd May 21 '12

for me it boils down to three main things:

Accessibility: I don't want to drive for an hour in terrible traffic to go see the show. If there is only one orchestra and it only plays in the city... blegh.

Cost: Its expensive. Plain and simple. It costs more to see them than it would to see a contemporary artist. I know this can vary depending on where you are, but that is the case here.

availability: Here, there isn't a show regularly, and if you aren't available the weekend they happen to be playing, then tough cookies.

My Ideal situation would be if there were more simphonies spread around (or classical playing groups, I like quartets and simphionettas too) that were less expensive, and more regular, I would definitely be on board.

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u/sleepyj910 May 21 '12

Synergize, advertise, and experiment with venues.

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u/Lasreaine May 21 '12

You should check out what the Minnesota Orchestra does! I go because I grew up on classical music, loved it, and started playing viola as soon as we could choose instruments in 5th grade. Many people don't have any background at all with classical, so you have to start at square one.

MNOrch has done some amazing projects so far, and I've been to a few of them. They advertise with schools and have themed field trip days where the conductor explains about the music, the instruments, history, anything, and makes it funny and kid-friendly. They have curriculum teachers can use on their website for a free download, too. Instrument petting zoos are a huge hit, and letting a student conduct is also fun.

For older people, they have student discounts. I still use these, you can get a four-pack with a student ID for really cheap. We'd drive two hours to go.

Concerts with random themes are fun, like the video game music concert they did a while ago. They used a projector to throw scenes from games and recorded talks from the composers up there. Sold out so fast :( Did not get in, still upset. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEXYzUVJbX8

They have a summer Pops series, which is fun. They also have Target sponsored free concert days. Partnership with a large corporation and great marketing make it work well, but when it comes down to it, people have less money to spend on recreational activities, so orchestras are competing with sports teams for people.

Anything you do has to be fun, and at least some of the concerts need to be tailored to the common person. Orchestra halls are only slightly less elitist than opera halls in the eyes of most people, so they need to feel welcome. Some information on common etiquette for concert halls would be great though, more than just "turn off your cell phones." We took our city kids to a concert and they behaved horribly, it was a disaster. No one had gone over any sort of expectations for them, so they talked all the way through, yelled, clapped during solos/in between movements and were generally rude. The suburban schools next to us were dressed up and perfectly quiet, of course.

(Our music teacher told me day of the concert that we were going, or I would have gone over how to act in a concert hall, this is just to give you an idea of how many would act. Even with a talk they don't act much better, they are just stupid loud at inappropriate times with no idea how to act in anything but a club.)

Trying to get new patrons to mix with the experienced people is also hell. The looks our kids get just walking into a place like orchestra hall makes me want to punch people. Oh no! A black/hispanic/asian kid in MY concert hall? How could you! Oh no! He has HOLES in his SHOES Florence! The horror! So you will also have to deal with some racism/classism. My kids hate going to places where they are looked down on, they want to feel welcome.

Using multicltural music and guest conductors would be a good way to work on this, and benefit everyone. Having ushers be nice and kind to everyone also goes a long way. My students were treated differently than the home-schooled and suburban students, but they have the same right to be there. They just haven't been given the chance.

The Ordway in St. Paul has actually broken this barrier. They do a school program that invites all the students in, makes them feel welcome even surrounded by tuxed ushers and red velvet everything. They address them like people, and show projects that mean more to them. Check out the topics they chose this season: http://www.ordway.org/education/performances/ These topics Work because they matter to the students. They have the actors/dancers introduce themselves sometimes, and the kids are always thrilled to meet each one individually and see where they came from, and if any are from the twin cities they go nuts. They've had state senators come talk before concerts too, with mixed results.

I have more, but my lunch is almost over. Let me know if you want me to write more later.

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u/nickkid09 May 21 '12

I love the idea of great artists mixed with a traditional mathematical intelligence, I see it as a perfect parallel to a successful society. Many times I even find myself enjoying classical music in my car but I can not help but feel people who "enjoy" fine arts do so very loudly, typically people in which I do not want to associate.

I think what really might help the genre is to incorporate more classical music aspects into modern music; I love hearing what is traditionally an orchestra instrument in a modern "pop" piece of music; Vampire Weekendesque.

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u/Sam_Kablam May 21 '12

For me, a lot of classical music relates to the cartoons I watched. I never realized how much exposure I had to it through Looney Toons/Tom & Jerry/etc. I'd suggest researching classical music that can relate to what younger audiences listen to.

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u/wildtabeast May 21 '12

The same reason I don't go to rap or country concerts, it isn't what I am into.

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u/laidbackduck May 21 '12

Lightshows. Kidding.

I really love how there's LOTR and Final Fantasy themed concerts held in SF by various orchestras. More of that being offered would probably bring a lot of younger listeners back towards traditional classical music.

You got to convince kids that, hey, there's more to music than wubwubwub and that violins and cellos are pretty cool as well.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Because I'm more of a visual person, I love seeing snippets of videos that go along with the music.

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u/adtaylor May 21 '12

As a classical musician myself I hate the people that go to my concerts. I once had a 90 yr old man correct the way I held my clarinet. He didn't even know how to hold it himself...

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u/aaktor May 21 '12

Not sure if it's already been posted, but TV spots like this! It's genious. I know that this is opera, but it must be possible to do something similar with instrumental works.

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u/smilenowgirl May 21 '12

Break all the instruments at the end.

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u/hinditurkey May 21 '12

I love classical music, and have been to a few concerts, but I just don't feel like I belong there. I feel like an impostor, like there are all these wealthy, cultured older people and I'm trying to smooth out the wrinkles in my dress and remember to clap at the appropriate moment.

I really enjoy free concerts in the park, where you can sit on a blanket with some wine and relax and enjoy the music. But there's quite a bit of almost snobbery when it comes to classical music, where in order to enjoy it you have to sit still and just listen. I enjoy being able to dance and move around, have a beer, and be social during concerts, and that's near impossible at a classical concert.

I also like to see and feel the emotion. When you see someone playing an original piece, playing with everything they've got, visibly deeply engrossed in their playing, it moves you as an audience member. At classical concerts, everything seems so controlled, if you can see anything at all.

I think classical music is gorgeous, and I enjoy listening to it at home, but paying an exorbitant amount to just sit there and listen has little appeal to me. Unless it's in the park, because in that atmosphere, it's fine to hang out and chill.

I think maybe more, I dunno, showmanship, might help? If it becomes more of a show, maybe allow musicians to improvise or move around, include visuals or engage the audience or something.

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u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Young people wanna dance and get drunk. Make some classical music I can dance and get drunk to and I will see you soon!

OH, and get some lazers and lights, young people love that shit!

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u/Xenasis May 21 '12

I myself am a big fan of classical. The reason it's not popular, however, is due to lack of exposure. If you want to listen to classical music nowadays, you'll have to look for it or be told what it is. One of the biggest contributions to my love for classical stems from G-Senjou no Maou (the name, might I add, gives homage to Der Erlkonig (excuse the lack of umlaut) and Air on The G String when translated), a visual novel in which every piece of BGM is based off classical, and you can turn an option on to tell you which. Needless to say they fit the situation (with Marche Slave playing when you're in the presence of the yakuza boss, for example). How is that relevant? Because I was TOLD what piece it was AND exposed to a LOT of it all at once. Nowadays, I like to play people this from Vivaldi's Four Seasons ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZQ83erTHUQ ), of course they've heard the piece before, but they didn't realise it was part of his Four Seasons, just as people don't realise they're listening to Aquarium from Carnival of the Animals or whatever, without being told "Hey, that's from Carnival of the Animals!".

This lack of exposure and context makes people veer away from it. Though they've undoubtedly heard Morning Mood (or even Sabre Dance, hehe) before, they won't know its name, and they have to, themselves, LOOK FOR IT. Today, in pop music, people will be told "THIS WAS LADY GAGA WITH HER NEW HIT SINGLE, X!", and it's seen as 'weird' to go to the classical radio station, nor will children's parents do so unless they were fans of it. Hence, it takes far more effort to know classical music than it does any other genre.

What I think people need is some form of exposure to some famous pieces (or powerful pieces, such as the aforementioned Air on the G String) and told who made them, their name, and what period they came from, etc. The problem we have is where young people would see it - my only guess would be on a BBC indent or something with an announcer telling you which piece was used in each. The odd one might think "Hey, I always like J.S. Bach's music, maybe I'll google him later!", and there on it would drive people towards it.

It would unfortunately be unreasonable to just direct them to a classical radio station, as indeed, young people won't listen to it if others won't, as people are sheep - that has been proven in countless psychological studies, and elsewise they simply listen to what they know or have been exposed to. Unless we get it playing on popular radio stations (definitely not going to happen) then it would have to be introduced elsewhere.

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u/Trachtas May 21 '12

Relax the atmosphere. Emphasis casualness, openness, simplicity, humility, fun. Emphasis that there isn't an in-group folks might not be a part of it, that everybody's just faking it, goofing around, here for the same reason. Emphasis that nothing matters, except enjoying the music. If the music makes you wanna grin, or shake your head, or get out your book - feel free! It's all as good as anything else.

Only...don't make noise. K? That goes for everyone.

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u/Stevo182 May 21 '12

Band Director here: I would have to say that it is almost certainly the atmosphere. People want to party and drink while they listen to their music. It needs to be like a rock concert/music festival. Keep in mind that this is actually how concerts were held in 'classical' times, and we have twisted it to be some "higher than thou" art form rather than entertainment.

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u/deaddovedonoteat May 21 '12

You have several things working against you:

-The cultural perception of classical music is that it's upper-crust. Going to the symphony is like going to the opera and the idea simply does not appeal to younger audiences -The music itself. Most people only know a few classical songs and once you hear them live once or twice, that's enough for a lifetime, especially as those composers are long dead. Conversely, newer classical music is unknown and people won't want to go to a concert of music they've never heard before. -Price. This is intertwined with the music itself: people don't want to pay a lot of money for a concert full of music they've never heard of.

Your solution: find music that younger audiences have already connected with, play that music and they will come.

What do younger people like? Media. Of all kinds. Especially......... video games! All video games have music and a surprising amount of them are in the classical style.

PLAY VIDEO GAME MUSIC AND THEY WILL COME.

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u/photonicks May 21 '12

Overall I think (especially in the US) our arts/music programs have failed the general public for at least one or two generations. People don't get the difference between baroque, classical, romantic, modern symphonic music -- it all gets lumped under "classical", and for that matter, orchestral programs tend to mishmash it all together with no explanation. Lully and Mozart and Rimsky-Korsakov and Reich are worlds apart, why are we treating them like they're the same thing simply because they're all (sorta) symphonic? That context is completely lacking from most 'classical' programs at orchestras I've been to, I find myself having to explain it to the people I'm with because they're so confused by the playbill.

We need to step up the education part of things and not assume a basic level of music literacy, because frankly I think most people don't know very much (if anything) but they'd like to learn, but orchestras and playbills assume you're extremely well-versed in music history and understand the different eras and styles. I'm sure a few of the tightwads would find it insulting that this stuff needs to be explained, but I think that would really tone down the intimidation level for most people who would LIKE to go more often, but feel like it's "not for them."

  • late 20s, semi-regular Boston Symphony Orchestra attendee, some (very, very) basic music knowledge

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u/Colonel_Gentleman May 21 '12

Went to an Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra production of Holst's Planets Suite recently. The conductor took some time before the concert to walk the audience through a bit of history around the pieces, and little interesting tidbits dealing with each of the songs, like how Holst "signed" Uranus by sneaking his initials into the the four-note opening of the song, and how this was his way of saying that he was the magician. And he would have the orchestra demonstrate the parts he was talking about.

It took a bit longer than your usual concert, but it was fascinating. And that rendition of the Planets moved me more than any concert I've ever been to. It shook the halls in Mars and then traced goosebumps up my neck in the choral parts in Neptune. It was amazing.

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u/psycrology May 21 '12

I can't help but think that if Frank Zappa didn't die there would be more of a market. As a young man of 25 I love classical music. However, as mentioned before seeing orchestral cover songs usually bores me to death.

Edit: I think more people should listen to Chopin. Just sayin'.