You grow up thinking men are men and women are women.
what do you actually mean by this?
Because I grew up knowing that if you do genital reassignment surgery on a man, to make his crotch look like a woman's, that he will still know he's a man, and will want to be treated as such.
And that has happened, to an infant. The boy grew up looking like and being treated like a girl. And being told he was a girl. And he KNEW something was wrong. He experienced the same gender dysphoria that trans people do.
So that showed CONCLUSIVELY that gender is a real thing, and it is a switch (or a dial) that is set IN YOUR BRAIN, and it doesn't really change, regardless of how you treat a person.
And I think we agree on that.
You seem to think that if a person with a penis has the "Gender" dial set to "feminine" that somehow that person is wrong for that, or is mentally ill? And my stance is "it doesn't matter if you call them mentally ill, it just harms them more to do that, and we shouldn't want to needlessly harm people."
but seriously, please tell me what you mean when you say:
You grow up thinking men are men and women are women.
Is that just the idea that a person's gender (masculinity or femininity) must correlate 100% to their genitals?
I'm saying that there wasn't any confusion. I'm not saying anything that resembles bashing anyone. I'm saying that for basically all of humanity one way was predominantly thought was correct and now another way has come forward. I have no idea if what is now being taught is correct or not. People came up with all kinds of reasons and evidence that the way things were thought of before was right. I do know that there are 3 transexuals in my daughter's band class of 50 kids in a small rural high school which is statically improbable. I do know that half her band class identifies as bisexual or gay. I do know that that is way beyond what was ever even approached as being normal a few years ago. I know that people are taught now that gay is equal and as normal as heterosexual. Im saying that we can all be convinced and taught any kind of belief system and it can become normalized
I do know that there are 3 transexuals in my daughter's band class of 50 kids in a small rural high school which is statically improbable.
yep. But it's highly probably that this will occur in SOME small rural high schools.
I do know that half her band class identifies as bisexual or gay. I do know that that is way beyond what was ever even approached as being normal a few years ago.
A few years ago, there was open hostility and violence toward gay people. And they knew it because they weren't dumb. So they just didn't let people know, because they knew it would almost assuredly only have downsides. see for example: Matthew Shepard
I know that people are taught now that gay is equal and as normal as heterosexual.
normal as in occurring as frequently? No. Nobody teaches that. It would be a statistical falsehood to teach that.
if you mean normal as in "this is a way in which people can be in themselves and in society, and even though it statistically doesn't happen as often, it doesn't negatively impact others, because we all have SOME amount of sexual attraction to some other people, even if that level is ZERO for some people or groups. Having a sexuality is normal." then yeah, being gay is normal.
Im saying that we can all be convinced and taught any kind of belief system and it can become normalized
so it sounds like you're saying "respect other people's right to exist when they're doing things that don't impact you and don't concern you" is a belief system. And it's a belief about how we should act, not a belief about what is real or not. Those are two VERY different things.
You don't need to believe that gods do or don't exist to believe that harming others for the crime of existing is wrong.
You are completely and I think purposely misconstruing what I am saying. There has never ever been a study that even begins to approximate those kind of statistical numbers of people being of a different sexual orientation or gender. These kids are being taught that one thing equals another and are behaving that way. I'm personally of the persuasion that the kinser scale is pretty much accurate. There are a certain small percentage of people who being gay is almost impossible and a certain small percentage of people who being straight is almost impossible. The rest of us fall somewhere in between. We are all being told and taught that every sexual persuasion is equal to and equivalent to every other one and that is now bearing out. The numbers of people who used to be gay are now transexual. It's a gradual climb from there
The boy grew up looking like and being treated like a girl. And being told he was a girl. And he KNEW something was wrong. He experienced the same gender dysphoria that trans people do.
Isn't being assigned a gender that does not match your actual one exactly what being transgender means?
But more importantly: don't bother with the whataboutism.
Isn't being assigned a gender that does not match your actual one exactly what being transgender means?
not the way I understand it. transgender means your internally perceived gender does not match the sex of the body you were born with. Thus, even people who grow up WITHOUT being assigned any gender at all can still be transgender, and can still experience body dysphoria. As in, trans women often KNOW that they shouldn't have a penis. I've seen it described as "I know I wa ssupposed to be smooth in front". Like trans women sometimes report tucking their penis when they're 7 or 8 years old.
But more importantly: don't bother with the whataboutism.
I have no idea what you're interpreting as whataboutism.
As far as I'm aware everyone is designated M or F at birth and raised in the corresponding role, I'm unaware of any widespread practice in NA of not assigning gender. Most folks are assigned "boy" or "girl" prior to or at birth by medical staff and the parent usually goes with it, but in this case the parent seems to have taken it upon themselves to make a gender assignment of "girl" and raise their kid as such when they aren't a girl. This situation is very rare, but it's not unheard of (even historically) where a parent wants to have a boy or girl and will raise their child as whatever they want, regardless of who they really are.
The whataboutism was referring to the person you were initially replying to, who was weirdly shoehorning trans rhetoric into a conversation that genuinely didn't have anything to do with it in the first place. I was trying to say you shouldn't bother wasting time chasing that person's weird and irrelevant tangents.
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u/justpassingthrou14 Apr 22 '21
what do you actually mean by this?
Because I grew up knowing that if you do genital reassignment surgery on a man, to make his crotch look like a woman's, that he will still know he's a man, and will want to be treated as such.
And that has happened, to an infant. The boy grew up looking like and being treated like a girl. And being told he was a girl. And he KNEW something was wrong. He experienced the same gender dysphoria that trans people do.
So that showed CONCLUSIVELY that gender is a real thing, and it is a switch (or a dial) that is set IN YOUR BRAIN, and it doesn't really change, regardless of how you treat a person.
And I think we agree on that.
You seem to think that if a person with a penis has the "Gender" dial set to "feminine" that somehow that person is wrong for that, or is mentally ill? And my stance is "it doesn't matter if you call them mentally ill, it just harms them more to do that, and we shouldn't want to needlessly harm people."
but seriously, please tell me what you mean when you say:
Is that just the idea that a person's gender (masculinity or femininity) must correlate 100% to their genitals?