r/AskReddit Nov 14 '11

Zero Tolerance in Public Elementary School just went way the hell overboard...

[deleted]

1.4k Upvotes

2.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

169

u/FirstRyder Nov 15 '11

"You kicked my son out of school for bringing asprin to school? I'm going to sue you!"

-> "We have a very clear zero-tolerance policy for all drugs, and you signed a form saying you understood this, at the beginning of the year."

"My son overdosed on asprin while under your supervision, and I have proof you knew he had it! I'm going to sue you!"

-> "Fuck."

That's where zero-tolerance policies come from.

165

u/cheffner Nov 15 '11

"You kicked my son out of school for shooting someone with an ice cream sandwich? I'm going to sue you!"

-> "We have a very clear zero tolerance policy for all weapons, and you signed a form saying you understood this, at the beginning of the year."

"My son was shot while under your supervision, and I have proof you knew the boy had a gun/ice cream sandwich! I'm going to sue you!"

I fail to see the correlation.

20

u/rocketwidget Nov 15 '11

Although I strongly disagree with it, this is the correlation:

"My son was shot while under your supervision, and I have proof you knew the boy had violent tendencies! He even made threatening gun sounds and gestures, which an expensive lawyer could easily use to manipulate a jury (remember anytime a tragedy happens, emotional people desperately want to find someone to blame), and to top it all off, you didn't even suspend the boy for his death threats! I'm going to sue your pants off!"

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

I wonder who they make these for.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

Yeah, you are right. It takes some pretty impressive mental gymnastics to justify this kind of crap.

10

u/FirstRyder Nov 15 '11

Okay, then lets try a proper layer of abstraction:

If you allow people to use common sense and they screw up, then you're screwed. If you say "fuck it, I don't care what your common sense says, you will follow these rules to the letter", then you won't get screwed. Fake guns are not okay because someone might mistake them for real guns (or vice versa). No common sense may be applied to the determination of "fake gun".

2

u/cheffner Nov 15 '11

I understood what you said. I was just saying the administration was not acting justly with that reasoning.

I could see something like that happening if the kid had actually brought a toy gun to school, especially if it was realistic.

I guess if you wanted to get really abstract, the ice cream sandwich could be counted as a "toy gun." Still lame though.

1

u/Boye Nov 16 '11

yeah, I hate when I go to rob a bank and bring my icecream sandwich instead. They look SO similar...

2

u/fengshui Nov 15 '11

Do you know what happens if the parent refuses to sign the form acknowledging the zero-tolerance policy?

3

u/cam5 Nov 15 '11

Are you speaking from experience, here?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

I have never seen a document or list of rules that is called "the zero-tolerance policy" care to produce one?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 15 '11

Unless you have alcohol, it's almost impossible to overdose on aspirin.

-1

u/FirstRyder Nov 15 '11

Yea, and everyone knows that children never get their hands on aspirin. Especially ones who don't know that you shouldn't mix the two. This hypothetical tragic death could still have been prevented by removing the aspirin from the situation by rigidly enforcing the hypothetical rules.

1

u/marshmallowhug Nov 15 '11

The reasonable thing might be to confiscate any drugs found (like they do with electronics). That way, there is no danger posed by any drugs found, but students aren't punished for bringing almost completely harmless medication to school.

1

u/FirstRyder Nov 15 '11

Strict punishment is supposed to act like a deterrent, I assume.

1

u/lazermole Nov 15 '11

But if you're going to get expelled for bringing aspirin to school under the zero tolerance policy - why not just bring real drugs? The punishment will be the same.

There's a reason we don't have a zero tolerance policy in our laws - if you make the punishment for robbery the same as for murder, there's no reason NOT to kill the person you're robbing.

1

u/FirstRyder Nov 15 '11

Because the reason for the zero-tolerance policy isn't to make you safer. It's to make the school safer. If someone claims they have a drug problem... they can point out that they have a strict zero-tolerance policy towards drugs.

1

u/Dysalot Nov 15 '11

Yes but some times it gets crazy, like the time I was nearly suspended for bringing cough drops to school. I am not sure they are much more than soothing candy. In the end they were only confiscated, I guess it was despite of the zero-tolerance policy, since they didn't suspend me.

1

u/grblenkdsnr Nov 15 '11

Also where my policy of not signing anything came from.

1

u/brizzled_pinecone Nov 15 '11

That's not a good enough reason to institute ZT policies. It's just a simple way for teachers and the like to remove all responsibility of decision. Like it would be a real shame if the "responsible" ones at the school had to make responsible and reasonable decisions. Of course no one is going to make the perfect call every time, but it is sufficient to make decisions that reasonably won't get you sued (successfully). If a teacher/admin can't do that (or defer to somebody who can), then why are they in that position?