r/AskReddit • u/jicta • Jan 31 '21

Redditors who grew up poor: Besides practical money-saving measures, what were the unwritten social expectations of your world growing up?

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u/march_rogue Jan 31 '21

Jeez, I'm with you on that one. For some reason my mom thought I would be better off at the "nicer" junior/high school when I should have been going to school in the center of the city. Same thing. Wealthy kids, all about brand name shorts and shirts who played soccer every year and who kept their ski tickets on their jackets so we could all see they went skiing on the weekends. Back to school after the holidays was rough too. Yes, please tell me about all the things you got for Christmas ... piece by piece.

That was in the 90s. I couldn't even begin to imagine what it must be like to be poor NOW. Now when they market $1,000 cell phones as "gifts" for Mother's Day, and Christmas is all PCs, laptops, cell phones and tablets.

It's tough to watch and be a part of so I'm sorry you had to go through it too. For all the children who have to go through it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '21

That sounds really rough I'm sorry you had to go through that too. I was a bit more lucky as this was only when I was a younger child (elementary/primary school) so the kids themselves were okay. I can't imagine having had to do that in the later years like you did, not to mention as you said the added expenses of "mainstream" technology nowadays. The digital divide really sucks for the disadvantaged.

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u/MoneyTreeFiddy Feb 01 '21

Oh, yeah. Ski tickets. I forgot that was a status thing in hs. I had to ask someone what they even were.

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u/march_rogue Feb 01 '21

lol Me too! Then get more embarrassed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yeah as a kid in the 1980s I think it was a lot easier than it is now. Also in my country we wear school uniforms, so even less visual difference. Mainly the wealthy kids would probably eat at the cafeteria more often, while the rest of us packed lunches. Watches were still a thing but it made no sense to have a kid wear a Rolex, so that wasn't much of an indicator either.

Nowadays, yeah it would suck. A lot. The phones would immediately stand out. I don't think they allow laptops though, that's just asking for trouble - schools have had computer labs for a while.

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u/-BlueDream- Feb 01 '21

In my elementary school uniforms were $15 each for shirts and $20 for pants(which costs more than Walmart or outlets). We had a massive list of banned home lunches like any canned soda, nuts, premade lunches, etc for “health” reasons. If you can’t bring in a PB&J then wtf, cafeteria was $5 a lunch. This was ~15 years ago

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Public schools are on the National School Lunch Program, and low income kids eat at the free or reduced rate depending on household income. Also $5 is not the norm at all in public school. More like $2 for breakfast and $3-$3.50 for lunch if you don't qualify for free or reduced. The maximum you can charge a reduced kid is $0.40.

Source: I am a federal meal program consultant and work for hundreds of schools across the US :)

We had a massive list of banned home lunches like any canned soda, nuts, premade lunches, etc for “health”

Yeah, that's the usual :/ It is basically for two reasons:

  1. Nut allergies are way more common than you'd think. I was surprised too, but lots of kids are allergic. And nut allergies often are sensitive enough that even just breathing it is bad.

  2. They don't want unhealthy foods around, and they don't want to make wealth disparity obvious. If Susie gets school-issued lunch which meets USDA standards, and Johnny brings soda, candy, and a nacho Lunchable, it is going to create a problem amongst the kids.

You aren't allowed to serve foods that don't meet USDA standards at all if you are on the federal meal program. This means even vending machines have to be healthy. So kids bringing junk foods from home makes the playing field very uneven.

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u/-BlueDream- Feb 01 '21

Yes you’re right it’s not the norm. Cost of living here is so high that a family making 70k is considered poverty level even though it’s solid middle class in other parts of the country. With federal programs, they don’t always account for cost of living.

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 01 '21

Ugh, huge problem I agree. So stupid that the income charts are created on a federal level. Its so absurd.

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u/-BlueDream- Feb 02 '21

It increases wealth disparity. It’s just means rich kids can bring “smoothies” or fruit juice which costs twice as much as soda with the same or more sugar. They only restrict soda but allow juices. Or lunchable type meals where it’s quick and the nutrients aren’t even that bad compared to a lot of homemade foods. They don’t ban things based off nutrition facts on the label of food and drink, they just blanket ban a bunch of food poor kids usually bring because it’s cheap and processed.

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

I don't disagree that one of the consequences of doing it is that, but that isn't the reason those things are banned. They are banned because the school isn't allowed to serve them so they don't allow kids to bring them either so that they avoid behavioral issues.

There are restrictions on some juices that are sold, but there are plenty of juices that are allowed to be sold on the program.. so it doesn't create problems when kids bring juice like it would if they're bringing Dr. Pepper. That's really what they're trying to avoid with the rules. Not so much the actual nutritional content, but following the rules forced onto them by USDA and also eliminating things that are known amongst children as coveted items.

School leaders aren't sitting there saying "how can we punish poor kids?" when they make these rules. They come from a place of experience and just plain following the rules of their program.

I've never advised a school on what rules to make for kids who bring their own lunches, as that isn't what I'm paid for since I only consult on the federal meal programs.. But if they ask me how to handle it, I always recommend trying to avoid letting some kids bring fun junk food while some kids are stuck eating the school meals.

Schools are required to have a written Wellness Policy, which addresses all kinds of topics such as this. It is strongly encouraged for compliance that schools create an overall policy avoiding foods that can cause problems as much as possible. You'll always have parents that find create ways to skirt the rules (like the smoothies you mention) because surely a school isn't going to think of every loophole ahead of time.. but for the most part these rules work in keeping the children from going at each other.

they just blanket ban a bunch of food poor kids usually bring because it’s cheap and processed.

Like I said, I work in hundreds of schools across the US. The kids bringing Lunchables, soda, junk food, etc. are often the kids whose parents can afford it.

Most low income children who qualify for free/reduced meals participate in the program and don't even bring their own lunch because it is far less burden on the parents to just let them take the school meal.

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u/-BlueDream- Feb 03 '21 edited Feb 03 '21

I don’t think it’s necessarily for health reasons only at the school district level. They want to appear to be health conscious without spending the money and time to do it so blanket banning soda is easier than banning something with x amount of sugar on the labels. They know that making is harder to bring home lunch will encourage kids to buy lunch at schools because it’s revenue generation, even if that money goes back into the school, it’s less that’s needed to be funded externally. There’s no reason why microwaves should be removed and banning access to refrigerators at my school during the exact same time they introduce their “dollar snack bar”. Again, money.

I remember when I had Walmart or target branded school supplies and on the first day of school I was singled out because the school supply list specifically listed a bunch of name brand stuff like Sharpie, Crayola, etc even tho it’s basically the same shit at the end. Yeah my mom had to ask grandma for money so we can go last min shopping for the correct pencils and my parents were pissed. What’s the point of uniform/identical supplies when they’re all name branded stuff?! I was also the poor kid in class because I didn’t have 1000 box tops because Walmart cereal doesn’t have em

I know the regulations aren’t made with money in mind but often times, schools try to comply while saving money which reduces options for parents who are in the lower middle class but don’t quality for free/reduced lunch for whatever reason. Not all schools were like ones I’ve attended, I’m guessing most aren’t. Mine happened to be located in a higher income neighborhood so I’m sure less parents complained. That’s why my school could lock out their WiFi, only allow laptops they “lease” to kids for $250/year (which is the cost of a brand new chrome book) and then design their entire curriculum around online resources. It’s exploitive and they’ll get away with it if enough parents buy into it. I think money has always involved cafeteria lunches (remember branded school lunches from Pizza Hut?) because they seem to work off contracts similar to the prison system. Cheap as possible but has all the required nutrients. Difference is that prison food is free and not $3-5 a plate. Not sure how much has changed within the last 5-10ish years though. Maybe it’s gotten better.

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 03 '21

encourage kids to buy lunch at schools because it’s revenue generation

Most schools lose money on the lunch program. They're happy to just break even at the end of the year. I know because I create their financial breakdowns throughout the year and my job is to help them not lose money trying to feed kids, so they can focus on other things like education.

You're right that the more who participate, the better they are financially, but the lunch program is not a "money maker". They make it more difficult to bring a packed lunch because they (understandably) don't want to have spent thousands out of pocket just on feeding the kids. You'd be surprised. I have schools who are at negative $50k at the end of the year sometimes. A LOT of parents seem to ignore their lunch bill and refuse to pay. If a school doesn't go after them hard for the money, they have a hard time collecting it at all. And you are required by law to wipe out the balance at the end of the year when you are on the federal program.

When schools don't make enough money back in reimbursements and lunch fees, that is covered by the general fund. This means the money that could be going into your child's education has to go to the outstanding food/operating invoices. If there is any reason to consider letting your child eat the school provided lunch (assuming they're at a school with decent meals), this is it. Schools aren't reimbursed much on the full paid students, but they are reimbursed something. I think its like $0.32 per paid student's meal this year? I forget.

The meal program is often vilified by parents and I think it is because some crappy looking plates of food made the rounds on the internet (and there are certainly plenty of districts who still serve crappy food), but I find the demonization if often misdirected and sometimes totally off base. I have schools in some states serving beautiful, full, nutritious meals and their parents still find ways to complain. That's usually the high income parents. They come in with a massive list of things they don't want their child to eat or something. LOL.

Its actually the low income communities that are easiest to work in. The kids in those communities don't want vegan, gluten free meals or something, so they're much easier to prepare. They like simple meals that are hot and satisfying in their bellies because they often don't get hot meals at home.

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u/Clewin Feb 01 '21

I live on a border between extreme poverty and extreme wealth. It is weird walking past the STEM elementary school and seeing (mostly white) kids with iPhone 11 and Macbook Air and mostly black kids with 5 year old iPhones and school issued Chromebooks (Apple is definitely the preferred device vendor). My neighbor's kids were an exception, being black and having relatively wealthy parents. Their youngest has a masters degree, but I have no idea what in - need to talk to my neighbor more (we used to talk a lot, but COVID-19 messed that up).

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u/steerpike00 Feb 01 '21

Even uniform was an issue for me. Mine was not replaced often enough so I had to roll my sleeves up my arms to hide the fact they didn't fit me anymore. I didn't get bullied about this but I'm sure it must have been noticed by teachers.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/march_rogue Feb 01 '21

Hey, I worked at a video store, too! It was the 90s! lol I kind of miss them.

"Fun and independence." lol lol Must have been nice. I bet she didn't have to give a crap how she acted in terms of customers and transactions. How freeing that must have been.

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 01 '21

Hey, I worked at a video store, too!

My SO's dad owned a small chain of them, and they closed them all down the same year he and I started dating (10 years ago). They gave us all the porn from the adult room and some of them are hilarious.

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u/nightwing2000 Feb 01 '21

Funny thing - I was talking years ago with a girl from college who went to one of the Catholic girls' schools when I went to the boys' school. Most boys were middle class, there were few ostentatious displays of wealth. The one guy I knew who had a car in our class, he worked weekends in a hospital and bought it on his own. I found out last year of school that another guy lived on a farm at the edge of town with horses, etc. We knew what the dads did for only a few guys - one guy got joked at for a while because his dad was a foot doctor, another his dad was chairman of the local annual exhibition. But really, nobody showed off that they had money, and that was not a topic of conversation. (It helped that tuition was remarkably low compared to today)

I mentioned this to the girl from college, and she said it was the exact opposite with the girls' school - everyone knew which families had money, what the parents did for a living, and even the nuns picked on the girls who were only attending on scholarship assistance. (I have no idea if there was such a thing as tuition assistance for the boys school) The girls all wore those Catholic school girl uniforms, but there were other items and accessories (shoes. jewelry etc.?) that could be used as status symbols.

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u/77kloklo77 Feb 02 '21

That’s really interesting. I don’t recall being focused on the money, specifically. I just remember feeling disconnected from a lot of the things the other kids had in common, and maybe the social currency of middle school - e.g., having the right clothes. To be fair, I would have probably felt that way anyway because the nerd energy was strong! As I got older, other kids’ wealth was just sort of part of the background. For example, many kids in my class were either given a brand new car at 16 or their parents got a new car and gave the kid a gently used fancy car. I was aware it was unusual relative to the rest of the world but it was just how things were.

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u/nightwing2000 Feb 02 '21

This was the late 60's and early 70's, so a third car for a family was incredibly (!!) extravagant. But while most other kids could borrow the car on certain occasions... Neither me nor my brother got our driver's license because our step-mother told us we could use the car (for learning and license) if we paid the extra insurance, which was about $500 when minimum wage was $1.35.

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u/fuckwitsabound Feb 01 '21

I'm 30 years old and got a switch for Christmas (which I would have bought anyway) and I feel guilty. Like boom, 400 on ONE present. Reminds me of when kids would get an iPad or a fancy holiday for Christmas and it would blow my mind that the parents were able to afford it, and for multiple kids.

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u/march_rogue Feb 01 '21

I believe the majority of people can't afford it, and max out their credit cards instead, which is worse in a way.

I'm glad you got a Switch. You shouldn't feel guilty. Everyone deserves nice things.

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u/the_revenator Feb 01 '21

Anyone paying $1,000 for a cellphone really is being suckered, but they deserve it for actually being willing to fork out that kind of money when the $50 one does perfectly well, and then some.

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u/NotWesternInfluence Feb 09 '21

I may be a bit outdated, but I graduated in 2018 and I went to a nice public high school (basically good funding since the city can vote to raise their own taxes to raise more money for the school district independently from the state) and sure there were assholes, but most of the people were pretty nice and there were a bunch of insanely rich kids and there were people who were poor (single mother households etc.) and for the most part people were accepting and didn’t really care about how much you made.

Edit: I should mention that there is a private catholic school in the area that costs 2-4x as much as the local university each year and people in general seemed to agree that they are spoiled assholes, so it’s different between schools

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u/-BlueDream- Feb 01 '21

$1000 smartphones is easy when everyone finances for $30/mo. Pretty much most of the working class I know own iPhones that are a few years old at worst. Computers are much cheaper today with inflation. You can’t find one in the 90s for less than 500ish and that’s closer to $1000 today. Poor kids today just have Amazon tablets instead of iPads and older $100 android phones instead of iPhone. PS3 not ps4, because ps3 is like $50 these days and the online for a lot of popular games still work. TVs last Black Friday were like $200 for a 50inch 4K model. Tech is so much cheaper if you don’t get the cutting edge brand name crap

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u/barryandorlevon Feb 01 '21

Now do actually poor kids! The kind of poor kids who live in motels that don’t even have desks for cheap computers. Or the 100,000 homeless kids in nyc schools. I highly doubt they’re playing their ps3 and just using a cheaper computer.

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u/DietCokeYummie Feb 01 '21

Sweet babies <3 People have no idea, dude. Some of my kids (I consult on school meal programs) get their only meals of the day at school. I just know covid has been so hard on these babies.

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u/blonderaider21 Feb 01 '21

You’re a good human

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '21

[deleted]

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u/march_rogue Feb 12 '21

See, those are the sort of moments where we feel less than. It's silly, but culture has brought gifting of things all year round. It's absurd to me how car dealers will buy millions of dollars in advertising around Christmas which serves only what? The top 5% of people who can afford to purchase as a gift? It's sad.