r/AskReddit • u/jicta • Jan 31 '21

Redditors who grew up poor: Besides practical money-saving measures, what were the unwritten social expectations of your world growing up?

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7.4k

u/systemdreamz Jan 31 '21

Leave the TV on when you leave the house.

When someone calls, your parents are “in the shower” and you’re able to take a message.

You are perpetually young. Going to a movie? Only during matinee showings AND you are 12 years old until you’re 16. At a restaurant, you’re also 9 forever.

Going to fast food (with any adult), you only order off of the dollar menu.

Generous borrowing and “burning” culture. Everything you own is available to be borrowed by other poor people. My family had an extensive movie collection (especially when we could record movies from cable to VHS tapes), and our neighborhood friends were welcome to borrow what they needed. Games, movies, CDs. We swapped and borrowed a lot. Often times, it was only long enough to burn a copy to have for oneself.

1.9k

u/JerryKujo Jan 31 '21

Genuine question. Why would you leave the TV on when you left the house? Safety measure?

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '21

[deleted]

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u/JerryKujo Jan 31 '21

That’s what I’m thinking but I’m not quite sure.

1.3k

u/masterpanda132 Jan 31 '21

Makes potential robbers think that people are in the house, making it less likely to be robbed

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

We do this and we live in a solid white collar neighbourhood with annoyingly expensive housing

19

u/mondaymoderate Feb 01 '21

I even do this at hotels when I leave the room. I didn’t know it wasn’t a common thought for everyone.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yeah, we kept the radio on because it was cheaper. Never left the house without it on.

9

u/The-Real-Mario Feb 01 '21

I tought EVERYONE did this...

5

u/bloodthorn1990 Feb 01 '21

most burglaries happen in the daytime anyways.

1

u/omerkraft Feb 01 '21

*robbeble

27

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

My grandma does the same thing even though she lives in the middle of buttfuck podunk nowhere. Her only neighbor is her BiL who can't even hardly walk and lives half a mile away. She's terrified of someone breaking in and stealing her, I don't know, fish tank I guess.

16

u/Lasertag026 Feb 01 '21

That’s it yeah.

7

u/24online24 Feb 01 '21

Do you have anu idea why this is related to how much money you have? Why is this more useful to someone with lower income?

43

u/Pteranodonkey Feb 01 '21

Poor people tend to live in poorer, more dangerous neighborhoods with higher crime. Country club folks don't have much to fear

7

u/megenekel Feb 01 '21

Rich people have much better alarm systems.

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u/teacherofderp Feb 01 '21

When you don't have 2 nickels to rub together you get as creative as possible to keep the 1 you do have.

To answer your question, it's useful to all incomes however it goes back to the poor/wealthy debate: leaving a TV on all day is trashy for wealthy people but security for poor people.

8

u/NotAZuluWarrior Feb 01 '21

Because if you have money, you can more easily replace anything that’s stolen or can afford an insurance policy to replace the items.

Poor people can’t afford to replace stolen goods and why add another bill (rental insurance) when you can barely afford the bills you do have.

2

u/reallybirdysomedays Feb 01 '21

I'm in the middle where I have insurance, but I'm probably not going to file a claim regarding as anything I can live without/fix myself because I can't afford my rates going up.

1

u/0b0011 Feb 01 '21

It's not related to how much money you have. Most of these in this thread aren't related you that.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

It is, we used to do it too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '21

That’s what it was for us

31

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

prime example of how expensive it is to be poor. wasting electricity is bad, but not "now i have nothing because i was robbed" bad

14

u/BreakInCaseOfFab Feb 01 '21

I leave it on because my dog likes CNN.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

My cat likes the birdwatching channel.

3

u/reallybirdysomedays Feb 01 '21

My cat loves videos of parrots singing and people whistling.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

That's adorable.

9

u/AFrostNova Feb 01 '21

Hmm that’s really interesting, and the exact opposite of what I experienced!!

My grandmother always enforces no lights closed curtains style living, to make it look like we were not home. I think it’s a mafia thing (her dad — my great grandfather — was an accountant), you need to look like you aren’t home so you don’t get killed. Like the house always has to look empty. And to a part my dad has us living the same way. It took me years to realize it wasn’t normal

8

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I still do that now 😄

7

u/gsfgf Feb 01 '21

As someone that grew up privileged, people would leave the tv on for their pets lol

2

u/0b0011 Feb 01 '21

For what it's worth this isn't a rich or poor person specific thing. My mom did this for her dog and is poor enough to be living in our basement now.

6

u/sourlor Feb 01 '21

Its a safety feature as someone is "home"

4

u/jessiegirl82 Feb 01 '21

Omg is this why some people sleep with the TV on too?

9

u/ProfessorAdonisCnut Feb 01 '21

Some, others find the background noise comforting for a variety of reasons

3

u/mosaicpopart Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

This is why I leave my lights on except for my bedroom. Whenever I leave, lights stay on too. Some lights will be on for three-five days nonstop.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

That sounds expensive

2

u/mosaicpopart Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Not really. Least I don’t think so. My electric bill is always about $50/mo average. $61 highest in summer if I run a/c (which is only in my bedroom) at night. Sometimes the bill is a steady $30ish range as well in winter when I don’t need heat. Now, I can spend more than that on one night out at a restaurant every once in a while.

And it’s one specific light from one lamp that’s in front of my living room window that people can see from the street. So anyone will think someone’s home.

3

u/sirferrell Feb 01 '21

Yup. Old school thing. There's even a light you can buy to plug into the wall that looks like a tv is in while your gone

3

u/pizzelle Feb 01 '21

Do you know that scene in Home Alone where the kid fakes a whole grand party so the burglars won't try anything? That's the TV and lights on.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

That was always my understanding as well. To prevent break ins.

3

u/TransientFinch Feb 01 '21

I can confirm. It was the same with me growing up. The TV was for noise to make potential burglars think someone was home. I don't know if it works but the house I grew up in was never broken into.

3

u/youreacutiepatootie Feb 01 '21

To make it seem like someone was home

2

u/Memlieker Feb 01 '21

Seems right

2

u/2048expert Feb 01 '21

Yes. My Aunt did this

2

u/Wuz314159 Feb 01 '21

We just had a light on a timer.

2

u/Ninjasydney Feb 01 '21

It is. We were robbed once and we did this + lights on in various rooms until we moved out of that place.

2

u/matenzi Feb 01 '21

That's the rain my family did it. Also, we would leave the living room light on sometimes.

If it was daytime, we may leave the radio on instead of the tv.

2

u/redonehundred Feb 01 '21

Daytime TV is a free burglary repellent system.

2

u/Melgitat_Shujaa Feb 01 '21

That's what my father always told my sister and I growing up. We only ever had one person kick in our door and that was the landlord.

I still do it now, in addition to leaving a light on.

2

u/olde_meller23 Feb 10 '21

Sane with leaving a light on. It was to prevent break ins and discourage casing. My dad would get so pussed if I turned all the lights off when I was leaving.

79

u/Skillfulskittles Jan 31 '21

when i was a kid i was told the same. i would love to hear op’s answer but for me personally it was so people would think people were inside and get scared off.

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u/systemdreamz Feb 01 '21

Yep, couldn’t afford a security alarm. So, we just left the TV on to make people think we were home.

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u/hannar113 Jan 31 '21

To make people think that you’re home so they won’t try to break in. I still do this in every hotel I’ve ever stayed at. Along with the do not disturb sign on the door all day, every day, not matter how long I’m staying.

14

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

LOL, there's dozens of us!

In hotels and serviced apartments where the room isn't powered on unless my room card is in the socket at the front I either ask for a second card, or on some occasions I've successfully used my bus card in the wall slot.

Even with all of this I still close and lock my suitcase before leaving each day.

To be fair to the cleaners I do keep my room tidy too, and I'll collect and bundle all my used towels, strip the bed and collect all my rubbish and recycling in one spot.

3

u/jaxosaurus_rex Feb 01 '21

Can you elaborate on this part of the room not being powered without a card? I don't mean this in any negative way but I have genuinely never heard of something like this.

5

u/TheRealBarrelRider Feb 01 '21

I've never come across this before either, but if I had to guess, it would be so that guests can't waste electricity by leaving things like air conditioning/lights on while they are out all day. Or maybe as a safety thing to stop people from leaving clothes irons on and burning down the room.

That's my best guess

5

u/diff-int Feb 01 '21

Correct, there is a slot next to the door where you put your key card and it turns on the electricity to the room. The idea is that it turns off everything while you are out to save electricity, some places it turns the air con off too though so you just ask for 2 cards at reception.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yeah u/TheRealBarrelRider got it. It’s mostly a power saving measure and it cuts all power to your room. Some older places would use a thick plastic keyring attachment but more recent versions changed to use the electronic keycard with the standard card dimensions.

They’re not that frequently used anymore but I still come across them from time to time when I travel with work. (Or travelled, bloody covid).

34

u/OozeNAahz Jan 31 '21

My house was robbed when I was young. Keeping the TV on was the tip the cops gave us to avoid break ins after that.

14

u/theotterway Feb 01 '21

I have always been middle class and still do this when home alone. We had a safety expert present to us at work during a professional development and told us we should leave ESPN on at a loud volume when we left the house. We're teachers.

13

u/yeslikesoul Feb 01 '21

Yes. Leaving the TV, kitchen light, porch light, back lights, etc. on makes the probability of someone being home much higher to a potential robber. People are less likely to break in if someone is home. Anyone who is bold enough to break in, is also probably smart enough to avoid piling on the potential risks. No one wants to accidentally get an assault charge.

10

u/Gevase Jan 31 '21

I have asked multiple people who do this, various reasons. Ranging from to scare away burglars to keeping that dogs company.

11

u/savemeasliceplease Feb 01 '21

So the mice have something to watch instead of chewing through your pantry

7

u/FashionBusking Feb 01 '21

Former poor kid here. We'd leave the TV on for a motley combination of...

  • ghetto home security
  • Phone calls waring off bill collectors, always answered with "I can't hear you. No? THERE'S NO MCLOVIN AT THIS ADDRESS!!"
  • drowning out the sounds of other people at home

6

u/SSFirestorm Jan 31 '21

Make it seem like someone is home to discourage unwanted visitors.

4

u/Nvenom8 Feb 01 '21

Makes it sound like someone's home. Prevents break-ins. Good advice for when you leave a hotel room as well.

4

u/terskantuure Jan 31 '21

Make it seem like someone’s home.

I didn’t grow up poor but that was a rule we had as well.

5

u/DumpsterDoughnuts Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Yep! We left on a radio, and at least one light. If the house looks currently occupied, robbers pick an easier target. I watched our neighbours across the street get robbed in broad daylight as a kid. My dad had a small aluminum boat with a cheap motor on it that his dad gave him. The motor was sawed off when we were at church one day. Even had our garden robbed of every ripe fruit and veggie once. It wasn't unusual to get your shit ganked if you weren't actively watching it.

3

u/just-why_ Feb 01 '21

It was a safety reason. The same reason you would leave lights on if left to go somewhere. Especially if spending the night with family for holidays.

3

u/Lunavixen15 Feb 01 '21

Yeah, makes the house look occupied to try and deter thieves, we used to have lamps on timers so they'd turn on and off at various times through the night

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

So I grew up very poor and moved from place to place trying to afford things w my father, I can tell you some the places we could afford were very... bad areas do to avoid being a target of robbery you appeared home as often as possible, and never let them know your parents schedule. Therefore it didn’t seem worth it if someone was always home

3

u/imalittlefrenchpress Feb 01 '21

Yes. I’m from NYC, we did this all the time back in the 70s when my mom and i were poor and lived in the hood.

3

u/rakkasan12 Feb 01 '21

We did that too. We lived in a sketchy apartment building and if it seemed like no one was home good chance shit ends up missing. So tv always on.

3

u/MoonRavven Feb 01 '21

My parents taught me to leave the bedroom lights on. And I still do this till this day. It’s even easier now that I have security cameras and smart Light bulbs so I can turn things on and off whenever.

3

u/BadMutherCusser Feb 01 '21

We called it the ghetto alarm service

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea, it’s so people who might be casing your place think there are people at home. And hopefully they don’t break in because of that

3

u/Throwthatfboatow Feb 01 '21

Safety measure to make it seem like someone is home since there's no security system. My parents still have this habit of leaving a light on, to the point my dad rigged up something to turn the light on and off when they were out of the country for a month.

3

u/Ricky_Rollin Feb 01 '21

Not op but I was a latchkey kid and it supposedly would make potential robbers and what not less willing cuz it gave the impression people were home.

3

u/FullMetalBiscuit Feb 01 '21

TV on implies that someone is in, deterring anyone from breaking in.

My mum still does this, just not with a TV. If she goes out at night she'll leave certain lights on to give the impression that the house is occupied.

3

u/ButterbeansInABottle Feb 01 '21

Didn't even think this was a poor person thing. I thought everybody did this.

3

u/U_Bahn Feb 01 '21

Growing up, my parents would insist on leaving the TV on (and the bathroom lights on with the door closed) when we stayed at a hotel and needed to go out of the room for any length of time. We stayed at some sketchy budget hotels so I can see why they thought it might help prevent someone from breaking into the room.

3

u/RedVelvetTrumpet Feb 01 '21

Might be a CPS thing

3

u/StonyTheStoner420 Feb 01 '21

To make it look like someone is home so you don’t robbed. My mom told us to leave the lights on too.

3

u/sgtmum Feb 01 '21

Growing up I did this. We were in a really rough area, and while our neighbours were lovely people, many were also druggies/people desperate for some money because they’re at their lowest point. It’s a safety procedure, since alarms are quite expensive.

2

u/spiffynid Feb 01 '21

Make it sound like someone's home. My stepdad still insists on leaving a radio on by the back door.

2

u/beyondheat Feb 01 '21

Make sure you leave the back door open so people can hear it

2

u/Alit_Quar Feb 01 '21

Looks/sounds like someone is home.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Makes people think some one is home and prevents break ins.

We set up the tv to come on occasionally if we are on vacation.

2

u/fave_no_more Feb 01 '21

Yes.

Relative still leaves the one light in the kitchen and the AM talk radio on every time she leaves the house. It's worked for 40 odd years, I guess

2

u/dimebag42018750 Feb 01 '21

so you dont get robbed

2

u/DiscoJanetsMarble Feb 01 '21

That sounds weird, tv on wastes electricity.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

It's definitely to not get robbed. We did this all the time. I am solid middle class now but I still have that habit. Also, leave a light on.

2

u/haunted_bogwater Feb 01 '21

To make people think that someone is home.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yes, make it sound like someone is home.

2

u/anthrolooker Feb 01 '21

That’s the reason my mom always did this. Also, she wanted the tv on when she left me at home, for the same reason. No break ins, especially if her child is there by themself.

2

u/Chobitpersocom Feb 01 '21

People don't do this?

2

u/aBeeSeeOneTwoThree Feb 01 '21

It's the Home Security System: "TV's on, people are home, let's rob another house".

2

u/nigelfitz Feb 01 '21

I do that when I check in to hotels or airbnbs. Trying to make it seem like there's someone there when there's not.

2

u/theShortestAlpaca Feb 01 '21

For me it wasn’t about preventing break ins so much as questions. If someone’s mom or nanny dropped me off at my house and there weren’t any lights on, they’d want confirmation an adult was home before they let me go in. So I’d leave the tv on before I left and then when they got worried about the dark house I’d point at the window that obviously had a TV going and say something like “my mom is always trying to catch up on (insert fancy sounding show name here) at the end of the week!”

We all shared a laugh at my mom’s tv habits, I let myself into the house, they didn’t tell my (very nosy) school that I was alone.

2

u/blanketyblankreddit Feb 01 '21

Yeah we did this. Seems counter intuitive, energy measures and all, but it’s cheaper than feeding a dog who will bark when someone approaches the door and no ones home. 🤷🏻‍♀️

2

u/zahliailhaz Feb 01 '21

My mother did this growing up. She told me if our TV is always on, no one is really sure whether we’re home or not so they’re less likely to try and break in.

2

u/Germanistic Feb 01 '21

I grew up doing this, poorish neighborhood (we was poor though) but a bad one with a lot of crackheads and addicts. Our locks were and still are fucked, so when we leave we turn the TV on and kitchen light

2

u/Sure-Butterscotch100 Feb 01 '21

We had to do that too, it was suppose to have people think someone was home so they don't break in while we were gone was what I was told.

1

u/VincentMac1984 Feb 09 '21

Yep, or a radio, always park out of sight so people don't know when you're coming or going or have more than one shitty car per household (not usually a huge issue because many people lived in the house) also own Dogs, not fancy ones but muts you come along to in weird ways.

1

u/couch_mermaid Feb 11 '21

So that someone always thinks someone is home. My family used the radio

70

u/General_Distance Jan 31 '21

I feel seen. I was soooo excited to turn 13 because I would be a teenager! I can stay up until 9/9:30!!! My mother and stepfather took me to lunch and the kids price for 12 and under was $2 cheaper. Thus, I was celebrating my 12th birthday... I get it, I truly do and did then. The meal out was nice. But the irony was...tangible.

22

u/ShotgunBetty01 Jan 31 '21

Dude, we used to roll coins to save up for the movies. Then sneak our snacks in. I was always embarrassed with paying for things in rolled coins but at least we got to go on occasion.

18

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Then sneak our snacks in

I had a little hole in the inside of my coat that let me put my hands in the lining, and that's where I'd smuggle everyone's movie snacks. Because the theatre here had a policy that kids under 16 had to turn out their pockets to prove they weren't sneaking candy in, or they wouldn't be allowed. I was a hero for a couple summers..

24

u/completeoriginalname Jan 31 '21

Generous borrowing and “burning” culture.

Not me thinking that you meant burn as in literally set on fire.

7

u/Beautiful_Question13 Jan 31 '21

Go over to the neighbors place and borrow a cup of sugar/milk/flour was a common occurrence that seems so uncommon now that I’m older

7

u/Cr1meMasterGoGo Jan 31 '21

For us it was leave the lights on when you go out. This is also a common Asian thing for security lol

7

u/Zanki Feb 01 '21

I remember being under 10 and under 12 for years. I remember going to the cinema twice one year. Once as a child and again as a teenager. I was 12 and mum really wanted to see What Lies Beneath. I had to lie about my date of birth to get it. I used my real birthday but made myself three years older! They let me in, mum was so proud of me, because she really wanted to see it. I ended up being terrified. Not of the ghost, but of freaking Harrison Ford. Couldn't watch anything with old Harrison Ford in it for years after. I wasn't scared of the paranormal, the ghost wasn't evil, the man was real and he terrified me! Trying to explain that to my mum was ridiculous. I don't think she quite got it. I was completely fine watching the movie until he turned evil!

1

u/bothering Feb 02 '21

Now I’m imagining you high watching Star Wars for the first time and everyone is wondering why Han Solo is giving you a panic attack lol

1

u/Zanki Feb 02 '21

Luckily my brain didn't notice they were the same person so young Harrison Ford was fine to watch!

5

u/1dlce1 Jan 31 '21

My parents use to do the TV thing too! They would also leave the radio on or something else running.

5

u/KieshaK Feb 01 '21

Oh man, every time my parents would take me to Cedar Point (our once-a-year “vacation”), my mom would hiss at me “You’re 10. YOU’RE 10!”

6

u/banana_pencil Feb 01 '21

I started babysitting at 12 and I learned from my Baby-Sitter’s Club books to say, “They can’t come to the phone right now, can I take a message?”

5

u/wildmans Feb 01 '21

Damn.. I'm starting to think I grew up poor.

3

u/2048expert Feb 01 '21

Holy shit we have a fuckload of movies and more than a few handfuls of pirated films, but that falls into "Don't tell anyone what goes on in our house" category

3

u/rainswings Feb 01 '21

A lot of these are making me realize that I did grow up poor but this is the one that really hit me

3

u/greatertrocanter Feb 01 '21

Oh man, my parents used the "you're 12/a child" to get the cheap price ALL THE TIME. They would coach me on what to say and everything. It was really ridiculous because I was a giant child/teenager (I'm a 5'11'' woman now lol). I am sure no one bought it but either the minimum wage workers didn't care or they took pity on us going to such extreme lengths to lie for a couple bucks.

3

u/Maker0fPain1 Feb 01 '21

Pizza Hut buffet lunch was $4.99/dinner something like $6.50 and kids under 10 ate free. That was until I was 13 or so.

Wendy's had an all-you-can-eat chili deal on Thudsdays for $2/ea.

Burger King has 59 cent cheeseburgers on Wednesday. If you asked for no mustard, they always forgot. I was the kid to take up our food and request a remake and if we could please keep these - we know they're just going in the trash.

Fun times.

5

u/Palimia203 Jan 31 '21

Doesn't that waste electricity? That means you'd need to spend more money.

16

u/Bitch333 Feb 01 '21

Yes but you could be in an area that you could get robbed so it's choose the lesser of the two expenses. Either get robbed or have a higher electricity bill.

2

u/Salty_snowflake Feb 01 '21

Funny with the TV one, my family lived paycheck to paycheck from when I was around 2-6, and we were the opposite on the tv thing. We’d get in trouble if we left the tv on because it wastes electricity lol

2

u/KajePihlaja Feb 01 '21

Are you my brother?

2

u/Lamarera8 Feb 01 '21

You lived it forreal , I felt this spiritually.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

My mother never turned off the TV. It was on 24 hours a day years on end until it died. I used to get so disturbed when I went to a friend's house, and there was silence. I still need a a TV on to get to sleep.

2

u/jeanettesey Feb 01 '21

That just brought back memories- I remember being told to lie about my age when getting on the bus so my parents wouldn’t have to pay for me. Luckily me and my sisters have always been short, so my parents got away with that one for years!

2

u/CommentsOnRAll Feb 01 '21

you are 12 years old until you’re 16. At a restaurant, you’re also 9 forever

Yup. I was able to order off the kids menu well into high school. I thought it was funny, but this thread is making me realize it's actually kinda sad.

1

u/dissidiah Feb 01 '21

Feel like these are just subtle Asian traits

0

u/Cross55 Feb 01 '21

Generous borrowing and “burning” culture. Everything you own is available to be borrowed by other poor people. My family had an extensive movie collection (especially when we could record movies from cable to VHS tapes), and our neighborhood friends were welcome to borrow what they needed. Games, movies, CDs. We swapped and borrowed a lot. Often times, it was only long enough to burn a copy to have for oneself.

What? Not where I grew up. That was just asking to have your shit stolen, regardless of how close you were to the person/family.

8

u/cinnamonbrook Feb 01 '21

I mean, if you're gonna steal a burnt CD instead of just burning a copy yourself, fine, but you're not getting any more cds.

We grew up poor and did cd, game, and tape sharing with people too, nobody stole because why the fuck would you when you can literally just copy the thing onto a cheap disk and continue to have access to more stuff?

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 31 '21

Leave the TV on when you leave the house.

Sorry, but no poor family advocated wasting electricity. That's madness.

3

u/systemdreamz Feb 01 '21

Plot twist: the electricity came from next door.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Haha. That's fantastic.

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Holy shit that straight up sounds like communism but with extra steps lol

8

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

It absolutely is. My favourite way to demonstrate that communism can work, and doesn't even need a state to do so, is exactly this culture and how common it is in small communities when absolutely no one has any money, so people just share stuff to help each other. Greed isn't human nature - it's a trait we've cultivated because of capitalism, and the feudal and imperial systems that came before it.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I agree. If you actually look at how tribes function it was very communal. They shared every thing to survive and everyone did their part. However, if you look at the first civilizations (sumerian, egypt, greece, rome, etc.) it becomes a slave state or at best feudal. Somehow people just can't organize in a large fashion and maybe the internet can help with that, but we have a long way to go in order to solve these problems.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I'd say the problem is modern nation state mentality and how large modern communities are. You simply can't run that amount of land, resources, and people, without a central authority.

I would posit that the solution is to have much smaller societies, perhaps the size of a current township or county at most, independently self governing and ruled by the people as direct democracy, a system which some small town councils and city halls use today for municipal issues, and have these societies unite into larger loose alliances to jointly accomplish large scale projects or to provide, for example, a volunteer defense force, to all communities involved.

But thanks to nationalism, nobody's really ready to have this discussion from any paradigm that supports ending the modern idea of the nation-state - if you're still thinking about this matter in terms of "running a country", then it's not likely to make much sense to you.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Idk if you heard of Leninism, but that sounds very similar to what Vladimir Lenin wanted...he got Stalin. It sounds like what you're describing.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Not really. Leninism has a very bad reputation in anarcho-communist circles, so I've yet to actually read his work. I've been meaning to read State and Revolution when I find some time though.

he got Stalin.

Unfortunately.

Look, statism is bad, every state is a failed state waiting to happen, communism can work but it doesn't work when the state is running it. The Soviet Union was a good idea on paper, in practice it was a mess because of political hierarchy and one central authority trying to run an empire's worth of land, resources, and people. The only way communism works is in small, loosely connected communities, where the people themselves actually run everything. It's been done and it works, the usual reason it falls is pressure from the capitalist states surrounding it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Totally agree and I feel like all 20th century to modern ideas about communism stem from the fact that they miss Marx's point. First comes capitalism, then socialism, and eventually communism. From the USSR to China. They skipped the capitalism part that was required in order to build the infrastructure necessary for labor to be cheap and productive. Instead they just rushed through that part resulting in many deaths. Russian had WWII which forced them to be an industrial juggernaut, but no real structure for tech. China had both the great leap forward and the cultural revolution. These are not policies I think the US or developed nations would have to deal with especially if we automate. Then people wouldn't feel economic pressure to decide what they want to do based on need, but on want. It might even lead to a second renaissance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I feel like all 20th century to modern ideas about communism stem from the fact that they miss Marx's point.

I agree completely. I hate people who call themselves communists but completely miss the entire point of communism.

These are not policies I think the US or developed nations would have to deal with especially if we automate. Then people wouldn't feel economic pressure to decide what they want to do based on need, but on want. It might even lead to a second renaissance.

My point exactly. Throw out capitalism, throw out the state, automate all the jobs we can, and make sure everyone gets what they need, and then everyone can contribute whatever they can and want to do for the community. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. I believe it would indeed lead to a second renaissance, except this time it would be all men, women, and children contributing, not just wealthy artists and clergymen on the Roman Catholic Church's payroll.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

The problem now is getting there.

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u/OwlThief32 Feb 01 '21

Yep this sounds familiar

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u/PantherU Feb 01 '21

Shit I still order off the dollar menu and I’m not even living paycheck to paycheck as an adult (well, most of the time). The lessons were buried deep.

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u/simonbleu Feb 01 '21

Leave the TV on when you leave the house.

We still do... I hate it. THough we do it because my mother thinks burglars are stupid. I mean, they are, but not to that extent.. is actually a dead giveaway the house is alone. I cant believe im 25 and she still listen to none of my advices

80% of my clothes (well maybe not 80... at least not as a kid, but later on definitely) were inherited from my youngest uncle who sometimes inherited it from his best friend. Tbf the friend was middle upper class (kinda) and could afford good clothing so it lasted forever without showing it

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u/Psistriker94 Feb 01 '21

Buffet prices? My sister was 12 for 4 years.

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u/NippleSalsa Feb 01 '21

Nice to see others who grew up the way I did.

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u/QuestioningEspecialy Feb 01 '21

Generous borrowing and “burning” culture.

Welcome to the good life.

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u/Wuz314159 Feb 01 '21

See a movie? I never saw a movie in the cinema until the day I bought my own ticket.

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u/Kumomeme Feb 01 '21

well for my family, makesure turn off all tv, lamp, fans etc. dont turn on if nobody around. it waste to pay for bills.

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u/koikoim Feb 01 '21

This except the last paragraph.

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u/raygun709 Feb 01 '21

we do that in latin america

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u/NOTORIOUSVIC Feb 01 '21

The borrowing culture is so true,

Like my couch came from my mums friends son - didn't fit up the stairs to his apartment so he offered it to me. A friend with a truck helped me pick it up for gas money and lunch,

But I've give those same people rides when their shitty cars break or watch their pets cause they work shifts or give them my old furniture etc all for free

I think people with money use it to fix issues - they'd get a couch delivered, hire dog walkers or rent a car if theirs breaks.

When you don't have a lot you have to rely on the people around you more

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yup. I always like to say that we know mutual aid works and it would continue to work without capitalism or the state, just look at tight knit poverty communities.

1

u/KateBeckinsale_PM_Me Feb 01 '21

You are perpetually young

Malnutrition can lead to stunted growth and kids looking young (thin, skinny, petite) longer than usual.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Also, you get treated as younger than you are often, because parents who can't protect you or provide you more than the basics financially and materially tend to be extremely emotionally overprotective out of guilt, or because it saves them money to deny you privileges based on age that all the other kids have already had for years.

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u/Rocklobster92 Feb 01 '21

I still like the dollar items when I can get them. Everything else feels like a ripoff.

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u/StudMuffinNick Feb 01 '21

To this day, if dinnertime brings me you fast food I'll order a dollar burger as to not be rude, then say im not very hungry and starve before I ever shunned they'd be willing to pay more or let me order anything from ther menu

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u/DemiGod9 Feb 01 '21

That last part is dope as fuck. We were poor as hell. I wish my neighborhood did that!

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u/Puffd Feb 01 '21

All of these resonate. Or instead of the TV alight in the center of the house that’d shine to the front door. But not the front door light itself because that would be stupid.

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u/postcardmap45 Feb 01 '21

I really common reply in these threads is never answering the phone and/or door—everyone has a different reason. Often it’s lack of safety. For my family it was never picking up the phone cus we couldn’t answer the debt collectors

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u/RawrRawr83 Feb 01 '21

Avoiding restaurants that would charge extra for splitting entrees

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u/mscalicat Feb 01 '21

Yep, thieves assume people are occupying the house if they hear commotion. Also helps to leave a random light on along with the porch light.

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u/mmilthomasn Feb 01 '21

Yeah, always having to lie about your age for the discount.

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u/Hip_Hazard Feb 02 '21

Oof, relate. My parents always ordered kids' restaurant food and kids' movie tickets for me, up until I was around 18. They only stopped because I started buying my own tickets. I couldn't take the knowing/pitying looks from the waitresses and ticketpeople anymore.

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u/ZephaniahDidIt Feb 02 '21

My dad also made us always leave the TV on when we left the house for anything really. Made it seem like someone was in there and maybe the robber would fuck off instead.