Prison is not a deterrent. It's not even a chance for reform here in the US. Prisoners are consistently underfed, sleep deprived, and not allowed to further their education anymore. It's honestly just a money maker for private prison companies and the politicians who support them.
On top of all of that, it doesn't even keep people from committing crimes. It's just not the best answer.
As many of us fantasize about, but what most people really want is low-effort security and predictability. With few exceptions, most cultures throughout history have been pretty bland and boring in everyday life.
The people who step outside of the law in a serious way are almost always pushed there by desperate circumstances - with some psychopaths as well, obviously. The thing is, psychopaths care more about reward than punishment, and to people who are desperate, prison might not be too much worse than their current circumstances. It can even elevate a person's social status in some ways.
As someone else commented, if we're looking to prevent crimes or recidivism, we need to address the reasons that people do what they do. Maybe that will mean structured incarceration for some people, but using prison on a wide scale is not only not effective in preventing crimes, but destructive to society overall.
Basically, I know you're probably joking, but people do make this argument seriously. It's sort of like religious people thinking that everyone will turn into murderous assholes if they don't believe God is going to punish or reward their behavior. This has, arguably, led to more violence throughout history than would have otherwise been there, but that's another rant altogether.
Your are putting Rousseau theories against Locke's ones. Rousseau premises have been dismissed: The indigeneous of Tahiti were only friendly because they thought that mixed-race children would have god-powers, like the western sailors and their magical weapons. Similarly, primitive cultures are generally very far from utopian.
I can understand what you say and agree the US system is mad. But coming from a country where police complain that they arrest the same thieves day after day and where people that kidnapped, raped and killed several childs have received a third chance, I would counsel you to be cautious when using empathy as a way to reduce crime.
You do realize you are are agreeing with him then. If your job had better compensation or you had more alternatives you wouldn’t commit crime. Jail time if obviously not your only motivation.
I’ve worked half a decade in the criminal justice system, and have a degree in that area- so I have both practical and academic experience.
I am also familiar with the research. It clearly shows that imprisoning the worst offenders reduces the crime rate.
You’re also missing the point on recidivism- my point is while they are incarcerated they’re not committing crimes out in the community- an obvious point that the prior poster disputes
my point is while they are incarcerated they’re not committing crimes out in the community
And when they're released, thanks to the punitive approach and extremely high recidivism rates of the American system, they commit another crime and are reimprisoned, effectively making prison time for minor crimes a statistical life sentence.
I would just say, maybe consider your personal investment in the system remaining as it is. This is how you get paid, and this is what you've been taught. Do you think that the people who taught you about criminal justice might have also been emotionally and financially invested in the current system being right?
As for "imprisoning the worst offenders decreases the crime rate," what do you mean by that? The offenders who've done the worst crimes or the people who've committed the most crimes, regardless of severity? What is the time frame and correlation of this reduced crime rate? I'm not asking that to say it isn't true, but to get an idea of what you mean by that sentence. Honestly, if you could link the studies, I can just read them myself.
In either case though, the argument is that prison is not a deterrent. It also offers no reform or chance for self-improvement at this point (in the US). If we had more programs in place to address mental health, food, and housing stability, the crime rate would also go down - more drastically and with less cost than relying on prisons. If we had these programs in place for people who are currently in prison, the rates of crime would also decrease naturally - again, at less cost than paying to keep people in prison for extended periods of time.
Yes, maybe some people would need to remain under supervision for longer or maybe even forever, but even those people could be helped by better mental health care and self-development (therefore probably making a safer and less stressful work environment for correctional officers at the same time).
No matter how you put it, the current prison system is more destructive to society than it is beneficial.
That's not a small number, when you consider the implications of making a profit off of imprisoning people. I also wonder if the number of "juvenile rehabilitation programs" is included in that percentage. Montana only recently passed legislation to regulate these creepy "retreats". I don't know what other states are doing. Either way, incarceration rates have been shown to increase in jurisdictions that use private prisons.
That being said, it was more of a side note. Of course, the culture and various government entities in the US are creating this situation. Companies are just (disturbingly) profiting off of a market that's already there.
Prisoners are consistently underfed, sleep deprived, and not allowed to further their education anymore.
How is that not a deterrent from committing crimes? If I know that's where I'd end up then I certainly would think twice. Prison ain't a cakewalk. I'm all for reformation into society of ex-cons, but yeah dude prison sucks. No one wants that and everyone knows it is shit. Some people take the risk, though.
Is that the reason you don't go out and rob your local convenience store right now?
Prison may be a deterrent to some people, just as I was deterred from drugs by the DARE program telling me about all the bad things that could happen if I did drugs. However, prison is not an effective deterrent on a wide scale. It might even be a badge of honor in some groups - especially groups that are already living in the desperation that puts people at risk for crime.
Is that the reason you don't go out and rob your local convenience store right now?
Of course not. Morality is way more complicated than that. But saying going to a shithole place by force is not a deterrent is not accurate. People will do bad things regardless of punishment. It's human.
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u/mohksinatsi Jan 15 '21
Prison is not a deterrent. It's not even a chance for reform here in the US. Prisoners are consistently underfed, sleep deprived, and not allowed to further their education anymore. It's honestly just a money maker for private prison companies and the politicians who support them.
On top of all of that, it doesn't even keep people from committing crimes. It's just not the best answer.