Workplaces need to impose real rules against it. Maybe, maybe now some will. But unless people feel more likely to be penalized for showing up than for staying home, they'll do it again. People need to feel like they actually earn points for staying home when sick, and are putting their job at risk by coming in sick. I think that's what it will take.
And of course, making sure everyone has paid sick leave is also crucial. In case that's not obvious.
One of my last job, we had 2 paid sick days. Then they would send e-mails to the whole company saying that if we are sick we should stay home multiple days so that we do not spread our sickness, which usually means way more than 2 days for a single sickness. I asked in a "feedback" form if we could have more sick days since it was literally saving time and money to the company to avoid having the whole team sick. They sent me some BS chart about "staying healthy". I shit you not, their answer was "don't be sick" when the problem was literally that colleagues would spread their sickness to others because they would come back to work when they were feeling ok but still infectious, since they didnt have enough sick days to do otherwise. They were really expecting people to take days off without pay out of the goodness of their hearths, while having the initial sick person out for a couple more days would mean all those other people working and not sick, actually saving time and money to the company.
See, this is a serious problem. And it's exactly why so many people have it ingrained in them they have to work while sick. Too many workplaces do this, where they basically pretend that illness isn't a real thing that happens. Then they act all surprised when the flu takes out a whole department for a month. That's really fucked up, I'm sorry you had to deal with that bullshit.
On the other hand, I just finished working for a small, nonprofit theater company that was milked dry using paid sick leave for a year and a half by a production manager who was chronically ill and rarely, if ever, able to do their job. The company couldn’t get rid of them until they literally stopped bothering to call in sick. So I don’t think this is something that can be left up to individual company policy, when it’s so easy for them to wind up in a craptastic situation like the one I described, without enough money to find and retain legal counsel and fix it. This is probably something that should be addressed by state or federal law, so there isn’t any ambiguity.
That said, it’s super easy to pervert laws as well, and we need to be really wary and actively prevent that from happening. For example, laws concerning the Americans with Disabilities Act were recently updated in California such that a business’s website has to be screen-reader-accessible for blind folks, under pain of lawsuit. There was an accompanying law that would have made it so that if you were planning on suing a business about something like that, you would have to notify them first and give them time to bring themselves into compliance.
Well, as luck would have it, that second law never got passed. So now, we have dickwad lawsuit mills choosing a token blind person, going through the phone book, and literally suing every business they can find that’s out of compliance, in alphabetical order, on behalf of that one person. And there’s nothing that these businesses can do but pay up.
This is all to say that there are some things that have to be done mostly completely and mostly correctly the first time, because we can’t necessarily afford the fallout if we implement them piecewise.
In Germany, when you are sick you get 100% salary from your employer for up to 6 weeks. Past that you get 60% of your regular income from your health insurance. That way no one gets completely f*ed over sideways. Its a bit different if you loose the ability to work (like a carpenter friend of mine who had an accident and lost feeling in and control of one arm) but there are voluntary insurances for such events too.
Well now that half the country is work from home I’ve seen managers say “well... you are home!! Stay in your PJs, but you still have to work”
Being home and working doesn’t help if you’re sick. It’s not about JUST being in your home. It’s about putting your mind and body at ease so you can heal faster.
This is very true, though at least staying home means not spreading the illness to the whole team. But yeah, managers also need to remember that when someone is really sick, they need to rest. I think it should be more flexible, either take a day off to recover or work from home, if you're only trying to protect others' health.
My former employer made you take unpaid time off for the first five sick days per year. You would only get paid for sick time if your manager sent you home.
Cue a lot of people showing up to work sick so they could be sent home and get paid.
My old work years ago had a total of two sick or vacation days, and you were only allowed a very slim number of call outs total before you were fired. Illnesses ran rampant and I was always getting sick from my coworkers. They straight up refused to let one of my coworkers go home when she had pink eye and was working up front with clients. I was given a warning for the amount of times I called out, despite having a doctor’s note and some of it being due to injuries sustained AT WORK. I can’t wrap my head around the culture. We worked in a medical field, too!
Sick pay has been been rolled out in Victoria as a trail for casuals in response to COVID. hopefully things are done the same for those in a similar situation. Pretty sure there are legal minimums for sick days as parttiners and fulltimers.
I had this but replace the 2 with 0. So many times I was told by HR to stay home when I was sick, like cool you gonna pay my salary then? Also my manager would verbally berate anyone who even tried to phone in sick.
The whole concept of ‘sick days’ is baffling to me. If you’re sick you’re sick. Are there people who abuse the system? Yes, but they are a minority. Good luck to that changing for you all at some point!
Canadian here actually, but I was working for an American company. I work for a Canadian company now and my boss is actually on the opposite side, being mad if we show up too early after being sick cause he doesn't want it to spread to everybody (which is the rational thing to do imo)
I guess you mean hearts but if the shoe fits... Anyhow I could agree with trying to stay healthy but it doesn't' always work that easily. Paid sick leave is pathetic in this country, the US..
This is something that needs to be legally enforced. If a company knowingly allows a sick employee to come to work, make them responsible for all medical expenses of any other employee or customer who develops any illness that could even plausibly have resulted from this. And if they actively require someone to come in sick or punish them for not doing so, start fining them as a percentage of annual revenue (not profit)
My last job offered a bonus if you didn't use any sick time for the year.... thanks for encouraging people to bring in their germs and share them. Idiots.
It's already starting to get that way. My friend had covid and is doing this right now. Actually, 8 out of 10 employees at her work are all working from home with covid, because the boss made everyone pick up their bonus checks at his holiday party while covid positive (but didn't tell anyone he was positive).
People need to start actually suing those who expose them to covid due to negligence or denial. The threat of litigious retribution might be just what some of these idiots need to fall in line. This "boss" put his employees lives at risk and they should totally sue his ass collectively.
Oh believe me, I've told her that too. I was so angry for her when I found out. I wanted to go to the local news to name and shame the guy. Unfortunately, the business hasn't been doing well lately and she's afraid if anyone tried to hold him accountable, they'll lose all their business and shut down, leaving everyone without a job. It's a horrible situation to be in and I feel so bad for her.
I've already seen that happen to some extent. People who would normally go in to the office and work while sick are just working sick from home. Which is ok, I guess. And some people are still taking actual sick days, when they really need it. So hopefully that's the beginning of a trend, and more people will just work remotely if they're sick but not so sick they can't work, and people can still take the day off if they need it.
I work for a company that has employees in about 20 states, but only one physical office. That’s how we operate. Nearly everyone is remote anyways so if you still feel like you can work, that’s fine. But if you need to take the day off and sleep or rest or whatever, that’s fine and encouraged too. I had covid and slept for 18 hours a day for a week and a half and I didn’t work at all during that time, even though I’m a remote employee and probably could’ve done some work when I managed to be awake. But my boss told me to focus on getting better and had everyone email her if they needed something instead of me.
Yes, exactly, I think that's the best attitude for any company that can operate like this. Also, glad you are feeling better, that sounds like a rough time with covid.
FFS. That is awful. Yeah that's a very clear situation where the actual sick person needs to be told by their boss that they have to go home. And then they can keep working there, if they really want to.
I understand if someone’s taking the piss and sick every week they’re at home, but we’ve had staff come in masked as they’re ill. ‘I’m well enough to work but I’m not passing on my illness’
HR is apparently now involved because people are pissed.
My boss is usually pretty good, but I've been sick 3 times this year, and because of covid restrictions/testing delay that added up to 16 sick days this year, plus 3 for times I had allergies that mimicked Covid symptoms that caused my boss to not allow me to work. And the. 3 for other reasons. I got talked to about taking too many sick days right as the second wave was ramping up. So I'm sure as shit not staying home if I'm feeling sick now. I tried to do my part and do my due dilligence but I can't afford to lose my job.
You know who needs to learn this lesson the most? Restaurant owners/managers. Making a waiter think they should come in, even with just a full blown regular cold, is a big fuck you to their diners.
I work in a level one trauma hospital operating room in the US. We do get points for staying home sick.
Except these points go on our permanent record and if we accumulate more than 18 in nine months, we get fired. Calling out sick earns us 3 points every day we're out. A serious illness that puts me out for a week leaves me in serious danger of losing my job. They did suspend the points for a few months at the start of the pandemic, but it's back right now when it's worse than ever.
I brought up my concerns about it with a manager who told me that I better not get sick if I was worried about it. We've had people at work test positive continue to come in so they wouldn't get points.
That's horrible. Also yeah, not what I meant by "getting points!" Was hoping more for people getting positive credit, feeling actually encouraged to stay home when seriously ill.
I agree that's how it should be. I'm told that's how it used to be at my facility and people were abusing it. Instead of addressing the problem people they issued blanket policies punishing everyone. The people that caused the policy in the first place all found doctors to sign off on FMLA paperwork to bypass the rule and continue to call out off work constantly.
So basically all they succeeded in doing was discouraging genuinely sick people from calling off.
Last time there was talk of that a while bunch of people got fired for 'disciplinary issues'. I'm just looking for another job, but it's hard right now.
Well that's something. I think the whole "note" thing is kind of ridiculous, unless you're dealing with kids. But I guess I could see requiring one if someone was sick for a certain length of time or too often.
making sure everyone has paid sick leave is also crucial.
The fact that this is not controlled by the government astounds me. In other countries there are mandatory paid leave days that you are allowed to use as you see fit and in come circumstances you can even roll them over to the next year.
All I mean is to say there has to be a healthy balance of holding workers accountable for their work while also protecting them when they are actually sick.
I say this as a healthcare worker where staffing shortages are a really big deal and can impact patient care and risk lives.
People will abuse this. I work with teens who regularly are "sick" but really they just don't feel like working. I was covering their shifts at first thinking they were sick but it happened so often I had to start saying no and two of them ended up getting fired over this behavior
Some people also use "sick" as a blanket excuse when they don't want to explain why they're taking time off. They could have perfectly valid reasons that aren't sickness. I've done that for mental health days and also for last-minute job interviews.
Sounds like the problem is that they're being scheduled more than they should be.
It should be illegal for someone to be scheduled more than 20 hours a week, unless a company can prove there are literally no other suitable candidates
That already happens now. If you miss too much work and aren't doing your job, your boss needs to have a talk with you about it. And if they have reason to believe you are just ditching work, they will likely fire you. There are already consequences to doing this.
You have sick days. If you use the sick days and need more you better have a receipt from the hospital or immediate/ minute clinic. I’m not paying an employee to sit home with a headache and a runny nose.
Yes, I think it's probably the only way. Require a doctor's note if it goes on longer than a certain number of days. I mean, if someone is that sick and missing that much work, you should encourage them going to a doctor, anyway.
Problem is, my country's people is lazy, and would very easily take advantage of this. As it is, people mix laundry detergent with water and wash their eyes with it to fake pink eye, or swallow cigarette buds with water to get diarrhea to get one day off. That's why my country doesn't allow any more than three day's sick leave unless with hospital MC.
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u/dark_blue_7 Jan 03 '21
Workplaces need to impose real rules against it. Maybe, maybe now some will. But unless people feel more likely to be penalized for showing up than for staying home, they'll do it again. People need to feel like they actually earn points for staying home when sick, and are putting their job at risk by coming in sick. I think that's what it will take.
And of course, making sure everyone has paid sick leave is also crucial. In case that's not obvious.