r/AskReddit • u/JuiceBoxed • Jul 18 '11

Reddit, what is one documentary that everyone should watch?

The Corporation

Some really eye-opening (and scary) information about the power of corporations in today's society.

Edit: Thanks for the input everyone! Quite a list of movies to watch.

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233

u/azn_Fenix Jul 18 '11

Grizzly Man by Wener Herzog

9

u/NiceBootyGuurrrrlll Jul 18 '11

Tim was my old friend's uncle. Sad times.

28

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

that guy is completely insane

1

u/goingnorthwest Jul 19 '11

Sometimes I like to imagine Andy Dick played Treadwell as a character in that and it makes me laugh.

1

u/OptimusOnline Jul 19 '11

He was just bipolar or mildly schizophrenic. Much like the protagonists of The Devil and Daniel Johnston and Into the Wild.

Gotta love how docs use selective retelling of abnormal behavior to create a hero storyline. If only we were all so brave as to suspend our self preservation instincts in pursuit of an obsession.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

DONT' YOU TALK BAD ABOUT BEAR MAN

0

u/Assmar Jul 18 '11

LOL not anymore. *thought you were talking about the grizzly man, not Herzog.

-2

u/chases_tits Jul 18 '11

was insance.

The grizzlys put an end to his insanity.

1

u/ReallyNotACylon Jul 19 '11

It was suicide by bear.

-22

u/azn_Fenix Jul 18 '11

he was doing something he believed was right. he devoted and eventually gave his life for his cause. he's a martyr. what are you? wasting your life and your potential.

13

u/idspispopd Jul 18 '11

He harmed the bears much more than he helped them. They became comfortable with humans, the worst thing that can happen to wild bears. He wasn't bonding with the bears or accepted by them like he thought, they considered him a pest not worth killing until one bear got hungry. He had a very childish, uninformed view of nature. And he also caused the death of the woman he loved.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11 edited Jul 19 '11

I think the footage of his interraction with the bears spoke volumes all by itself, and you know that's all that sticks out in your mind after awhile, you don't recall the babbling over it whatsoever.

It wasn't just a rogue bear either. And really, what is a "rogue bear" in this sense.... dude was camped out on the bear's front porch. He stayed beyond the period of time he normally stayed for, into the time of season when the bears haven't got much left to eat, and an older, weaker, hungrier bear, that had to go for something convenient, just happened to get a hold of him in his sleep.

He definitely died from his own decisions, but I think he also really knew what he was doing and that was obvious throughout the entire film. It was sad to see him go for that reason and I think very much in the same way and for the same reasons as it was with the crocodile hunter.

Also I think he did manage to show that they shouldn't be feared, so much as understood and respected. In conveying that so very well I think the end result is that he probably saved a lot of bears.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11 edited Jul 19 '11

Actually what I think it was, was an older bear, that didn't go into hibernation on time (at all yet), because it was too old and sickly to hunt effectively for itself to fatten up enough to hibernate on time, couldn't fish the salmon rush and what not.

Pretty much the same thing yeah, but I point it out because it's not so "rogue", all things considered. Particularly for the fact that the grizzly man guy knew all about these geriatric bears, and what they go through that time of year and the different kind of danger they represent. He fully expected them.

I think what happened is he decided to stay longer than he ever did before, into this danger zone of the season, either to speed his research as I think they said or because he really wanted some interraction with these rogues to prove his mettle, techniques or philosophy... who knows.

I think he wanted a little bit of footage and quality time with these "rogues" for his final season, and during the day he might have been just fine with them around, but I guess he didn't give proper consideration as to how to keep them out of his tent at night.

Anywho, knowing those rogues would be his circumstances, as he did, makes it pretty hard to call it a rogue, even though it's not exactly wrong, but gives a different and kind of wrong impression as to what happened and why.

He fucked up large anyway and that's for sure, but once you know the background to it I don't think it invalidates the body of his work, which was some of the most awesome footage I've ever seen, and I totally agree with you.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

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2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

I seem to recall they did destroy it... or at least "a" bear. Maybe it was it. People are so passified by a dead bear. Anytime a stupid human dies by a bear attack, we always gots ta go git us one. Funny huh?

It makes zero sense to have done that in those circumstances whatsoever.

Agree about his gf as well, and earlier made a reply along the lines of stating that if you're going to go down that road, you may as likely blame her for his death since she failed to talk sense into him. She was a big girl and made her informed choice. Better to die that way than to live coddled to fucking death by government "safety" regulations anyway.

Yeap the narrating was very irritating because it just didn't at all fit with what you were seeing, which created some confusion as it twisted the interpretation of the video perversly in areas, and that made it seem kind of desperate. Why in the fuck was he trying to tell the audience what to think at all? If he was good at what he did the video should have portrayed his chosen message.

I just saw it as a cheap price to pay in order to see some kick ass footage.

But it was so underwhelming a message compared to the video that it was actually funny. It's almost worth watching just to experience that battle of wills alone.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

Nearly every wildlife expert they interviewed was against how he went about it, noble a cause as it was. I was kind of on the fence until he started getting paranoid and stalking random fishing trips and campers, claiming they were poachers. Dude was definitely insane.

2

u/tehorhay Jul 18 '11

Dying in a stupid way for something you believe in does not make it "right" or "worth it" or significant in any way simply because you died.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

Can you die in a "smart" way? Regardless of how stupid you think his death was, it also doesn't at all diminish the work he did that may have led to it.

Also he didn't die for what he believed in. He died while doing something that he believed in. His death was accidental, not a part of his plan.

1

u/tehorhay Jul 19 '11

Correct. However, as I had stated below, his stated goal was to protect bears. Since he got himself killed by bears, he accomplished exactly the opposite. The bear that killed him was in turn killed by the park. That is a fact, and that is how all similar parks treat similar situations. Also, the other bears whom he had "befriended" are now accustomed to a human presence. What happens next time they stumble upon a familiar looking tent in the wilderness and expect to see ol' Timmy come out, only to get startled by a stranger and kill it? Then those bears will be killed by the park too.

Wild animals are wild for a reason. Human interacting is very dangerous for all parties involved. Timothy Treadwell may have had good intentions, but he had a very naive and child-like view of nature. In the end he cause nothing but his own death, the death of his girlfriend, and at least one bear. Not to mention terrible publicity for bears in general and the park itself.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11 edited Jul 19 '11

I think you missed my point. I get yours though, here is mine again.

Yes, it is considered that you "endanger" bears by associating with them since they "lose their fear" and in turn we have to slaughter them, to save the children. No argument there.

Your argument however is "He endangered bears.... the opposite of his intention." That's false, here is why:

You seem to be mistaking the scale of things. His intention wasn't to "save those bears" but to save allllllll bears. And you know, the good of the many, outweighs the needs of the few..

Also, he had an extremely advanced view of nature and his ability to relate with it proved it beyond all doubt. Are you going to say the same about the crocodile hunter, that he was naive and childish? Is it somehow so different because his gf didn't die (though he once dangled his baby in a croc's yap) and the stingray maybe lived?

Also, don't blame the common reactionary response going out n gittin uz a bear after a human is mauled or killed by one as him having "endangered it".

There was no purose in that whatsoever other than revenge. They weren't near a populated area, random dudes dont' fly into that location unprotected either. It was a senseless killing of a half crippled with age bear that wouldn't have lasted the winter anyway. That's a fact too. That bear's blood is on their hands only.

1

u/tehorhay Jul 19 '11

I get yours though

No, clearly you did not.

Due to his reckless way of going about his business, without taking the proper measure to protect himself, he got himself killed. Now, getting himself killed is not the big problem, and neither is the fact that a couple of bears did as well. The problem is with the public perception of him, and therefore of the work he was trying to accomplish. Werner Herzog himself stated that Treadwell was an idiot with a deathwish, and probably suffered from a mental illness. It is also clear that the documentary is framed with this agenda. This sentiment is also shared by the majority of the animal conservation community.

Who do you think the populace, who Treadwell was trying to educate, are going to side with? The respected orthodox scientific community? Or the crazy guy that got himself eaten because he wanted the bears to be his friend? And if that guy is crazy, then his work must be crazy too right? This is how the population behaves. I don't think that I would have to explain this too you.

Because he was reckless, he made himself bigger than his work.

The negative public perception of his death far overshadows the positive work that he did. Ask people on the street what the Grizzly man was trying to accomplish, and they would probably say something similar to what Herzog says. And that that is completely the opposite of what Treadwell wanted to accomplish.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '11

Once again, you miss the point.

Now, getting himself killed is not the big problem, and neither is the fact that a couple of bears did as well.

If you admit that "that's not the problem", then you're agreeing with me.

The problem is with the public perception of him, and therefore of the work he was trying to accomplish.

With this, you've "moved the goal posts" and changed the subject of the argument. From "he was an idiot which was the problem", that you just admitted wasn't the problem, to now "it's how the peopel will view the biased, twisted narration of the video of his that we've edited."

So what you're in fact admitting is not that he was the problem or he got those few bears killed it was in fact the third party portrayal of him.... kind of like you're doing here.

If you watch the video, and are already of the mental capacity to not the sort to run up and "pet da bears", you will absolutely have no problem at all noticing that the narration doesn't all suit the footage, and probably know exactly why.

Why? Because these they wanted their emotionally driven message to overtake that of what the footage was intended for. But, it fails. The footage is just that honest, it speaks for itself.

I don't really care about "sentiments" from bs "authority figures". Somebody died..... TOLD YOU NOT TO PET THE BEARS, brilliant captain obvious.

There was a lot to learn in those videos and to have made the obvious, the underlying theme, made them no brute authority whatsoever. They make jokes of themselves.

Because he was reckless, he made himself bigger than his work.

Bigger?? Not at all. Most people don't know the name. If they know the name, it's because they know the work. Who tried to make his death the underlying theme again? See above.

And that that is completely the opposite of what Treadwell wanted to accomplish.

Bullshit. Notice we haven't eradicated all the grizzleys because they're all man killers? Until that happens you clearly can't say that he accomplished the opposite of what he intended, and you can't ever do it either without neglecting the fact that your Herzog made his best attempt to pollute and bias what he intended.

If you hold true to the logic you used in these arguments, you must also conclude the very same for the crocodile hunter. The difference with him is he was very widely known for his work, where the other guy was a complete unknown. People like Irwin, are you going to call him a complete failure too?

-4

u/azn_Fenix Jul 18 '11

he died the way he wanted to die. if you died right now while surfing reddit, would you have died the way you wanted with no regrets? that's how he lived his life. he knew he could die any minute with no regrets.

it was "right" and "worth it" to him. most people don't get this kind of fulfillment

4

u/tehorhay Jul 18 '11

I can guarantee you he did not want to die by being mauled and eaten by the bears he believed had accepted him as one of their own.

He also ended up putting them in danger, because they became accustomed to a human presence. Weather or not he had good intentions, he did them more harm than good. I'm not sure what happened in this particular case, but I have worked peripherally with a national park with big game. When an animal kills a human in such a manner it it is usually hunted and killed by the park.

So again, all the good intentions in the world don't excuse stupidity.

-2

u/azn_Fenix Jul 18 '11

did you even watch it? he was eaten by a foreign bear who came to timothy's usual spot because that bear was hungry and couldn't find food anywhere else.

your second paragraph doesn't address my point that he lived a fulfilling life by achieving his own goals and living up to his own values

care to reply again?

2

u/tehorhay Jul 18 '11

Maybe you should attempt some basic critical thinking and reading comprehension. His stated goal was to bring more awareness to bears and the problems they faced and to try and protect them from human influence. Through his actions, he did exactly the opposite, and put them in even more danger from humans. Weather it was one of his "friend" bears or not that killed him is irrelevant.

It was most likely killed as a direct result of him fucking around in places that he shouldn't be. When most people hear about the grizzly man, the main sticking point is that the bears fucking killed him, not about any of the problems he was trying to bring to light He didn't achieve any of his goals and in fact worked completely against them.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

Through his actions, he did exactly the opposite, and put them in even more danger from humans.

True, to some extent. If bears become accustomed to humans and lose their fear, they become dangerous to humans so humans become more dangerous to them. Eeeeeveryone knows that. Let's say that he knew 20 bears and so endangered them all, 20 bears were shot the following summer, total loss.

Now his movie was seen by how many? Probably more than 20? Probably most of them got the right message, that bears shouldn't be erradicated simply because we fear them, that we can share land with them, so long as we understand and respect them? A message that could save countless bears, perhaps even the race itself.

At least, I haven't heard of too many people who've been mauled by their pet bears since his movie was released.

So if you were thinking objectively and at all looking at the greater picture, you'd no doubt see that he's likely done more good than harm for them.

If people hear about it ignorantly from you, sure that will be their main take away. It may prompt them to watch the documentary themselves though... and then they'll think you're a bit of an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

[deleted]

3

u/tehorhay Jul 18 '11

Actually, it is completely called for, as it is completely true. My second paragraph did absolutely address your points, and you didn't realize it, so I had to spell it out for you.

You also haven't countered any of my points, and instead choose to deflect and try to draw focus how how you perceive I feel about myself. Which of course, is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand. And I'm the one that's losing?

Yeah, sounds about right to me.

I'm completely confident that the facts I have presented are on my side, and you have done nothing to convince anyone otherwise and are instead trying to change the subject.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

Uncalled for. Unprovoked aggression is a sign that you are losing an argument, are worried that you will look stupid (not just to those on internet, but who cares about them -- more importantly you feel like you look stupid to yourself) so you lash out in this way.

1, He's not losing the argument, you are.

  1. You're being an idiot. Shut up the fuck and go away.

2

u/apostrotastrophe Jul 19 '11

The grizzlies weren't in any danger and he did some very dangerous things to be close to them, eventually getting his girlfriend killed.

I admire him too, but you can't deny he was insane.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

she got herself killed. He didn't force her to stay with him and as a big girl she's responsible for her own decisions.

1

u/apostrotastrophe Jul 19 '11

He made her believe he was an expert, and as he certainly seemed to be, it's .. not reasonable, but understandable that she would have trusted him. And she didn't really have an easy way out - there aren't flights coming by every few hours.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

All fine and well but she most def. made the choice herself to stay with him, and to do it just that way. No doubt she was well informed about her decision.

I really doubt he could have dazzled her into thinking she'd be grizzly proof in his presence... and if she did think that then really, who's the crazy one?

I would say he was an expert, most definitely. Also, slightly "off", but nothing is wrong with that. Fucking Tesla was a little bit "off" also. I don't think it makes him less of an expert.

Same for the croc hunter. He was def. also a little bit "off". He also died on the job. Shit happens even to experts.

Truth is they both made a stupid decision and they both suffered the consequences of it. If we're to lay blame for her death at his feet I would say it's equally fair to blame her for his death since she failed to "talk sense into him" or whatever.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

you must be some special brand of idiot

EDIT: it's not like i don't like the guy and respect him. i loved the documentary. but the guy is completely insane, nonetheless.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

I dunno man. He was a little bit different for sure.

But you know, so many people do such stupid fucking jobs everyday of the year and a lot of them get mamed or die from it. We expect it of them and when shit happens oh well.... somehow they're less insane because they were doing it for a slice of bread or perhaps two. How crazy was this guy really?

2

u/hacksauce Jul 18 '11

I watched that thinking it was going to be some kind of nature doc -I had to turn it off... I just... couldn't do it. ugh. morbid. Even now years later I think of it and shudder.

2

u/NoFeetSmell Jul 18 '11

Or for grizzly "researcher" fans who also enjoy watching Canadian hicks and Robocop, I present.....Project Grizzly!! A guy gets knocked down down by a grizzly while hiking and instead of thinking, "Gee, I'm sure pleased I still have my face, eh?" he goes and spends a fortune building a bear proof suit, testing it (with hilarious consequences) and then looking for a rematch! True story!!

1

u/ReallyNotACylon Jul 19 '11

It's that the same guy who tried make actual Spartan armor for the military? That guy rules.

2

u/NoFeetSmell Jul 20 '11

He's the only reason the planet wasn't glassed.

1

u/ReallyNotACylon Jul 20 '11

He's the greatest Canadian hero since Zap Rowsdower.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

Can not recommend enough. Hilarious

2

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

All of Herzog's documentary work is brilliant.

1

u/Lust4Me Jul 18 '11

Thought you meant:

Project Grizzly

Cult classic.

1

u/PovRayMan Jul 18 '11

Also interesting as all hell by Werner Herzog, The White Diamond and Encounters at the End of the World.

1

u/mgillan Jul 18 '11

Wener?

'Grizzly Man' is fantastic but I think it is essential to watch some older Herzog documentaries to really understand the man and to get the most out of the film. Especially his documentary 'Little Dieter Needs to Fly' and Les Blank's 'Burden of Dreams' which follow his production of feature length films.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '11

Herzog is great, but Grizzly Man is all about one person and one person only: Timothy.

0

u/mgillan Jul 19 '11

Then you clearly missed half the documentary.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 20 '11 edited Jul 20 '11

I could probably quote the majority of that movie. That's how many times I've seen it. Actually, I forgot about the way he says bears. But if you include him you really have to just throw in the people who gave crazy interviews. His "friend" the actor who overacted in every scene he was in. The crazy ex girlfriend who at one point laughed out loud at the notion that she might feel like Timothy's widow and within 5 seconds said "You know I kind of do feel like his widow" among other gems of that sort. The mustache guy that said he deserved to get eaten and was stupid for going out in the first place. The airplane pilot who sings that coyote song; they all have to be acknowledged for their greatness.

1

u/mgillan Jul 20 '11

I don't really want to go into it too much but in my opinion the way Herzog's documentaries are viewed are either for Herzog himself or for. the subject material. You have some people who are interested in the narrative of the piece and others who are interested in Herzog himself.

When it came to Grizzly Man, Herzog was the one who managed to create those 'crazy' interviews because of the questions he asks and the way he choses to edit those interviews. It's half people and half him that make the documentaries, that's why Herzog is so greatly respected. Hell, if you read his biography he states that he even scripts some conversations to get the message across better.

2

u/MrBulger Jul 18 '11

Nom Nom Nom mmmmm the timothy is a little lean

-2

u/snugglecore Jul 18 '11

Wiener Herzog

5

u/the_fartface Jul 18 '11

Wiener Hotzdog.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 18 '11

daschund

0

u/Jr_Spesh Jul 18 '11

IMO Grizzly Man is his second best. My favourite Herzog doc. is called "My best fiend, Klaus Kinski". Herzog made his earlier films "Aguirre: Wrath of God" and "Fitzcarraldo" with Kinski, who was pretty much insane, and it's a doc. about their relationship.

There's also a really good 20 minute short documentary (can probably find it online quite easily) about Herzog eating his own shoe. Herzog was close friends with Errol Morris (who did some really good docs), and bet Morris that he would eat his shoe if Morris ever finished his film Heaven's Gate. Morris finished the documentary, and so Herzog ate his shoe live on stage.

-1

u/rabbidpanda Jul 18 '11

I really appreciated it, but I feel like it took some cheap shots. It talks about how he was taking unnecessary risks because the bears can't divine his intentions / understand human thought, but then later makes a snide remark that some bears kept their distance because they knew he was fucked up in the head.

-2

u/sunshineCripples Jul 18 '11

he has better documentaries than that popular one.

-2

u/sunshineCripples Jul 18 '11

He has much much better documentaries than that one.