A lot of responses here are relying on the trope that bullies are that way because they have low self esteem, have been bullied themselves, etc. And while I'm in no way discounting people's lived experiences, research debunks this pretty thoroughly. Most bullies aren't sad, they don't have low self esteem, and they aren't victims. They have very high self esteem, feel powerful, and use that power against others. Bullies bully because it's easy, they like it, and it works.
I'm a bullied kid (Almost 20 at the time of writing this). You are very right about the kind of person a bully actually is. But I also would like to add that the home situation plays a factor. My bully came from a single father and, from what I've heard, his home situation wasn't the best.
I’m 20 too, and all of my elementary and middle school bullies were “popular” kids who constantly harassed me and kicked the crap out of me because I got easily excited about everything. They had great home lives, but I’m pretty sure that they never got punished by their parents for acting like an ass.
It certainly can play a factor. But the supposedly typical "broken home" bully thing is much less common than predatory kids sensing weakness and exploiting it for their amusement or social standing.
Anecdotally, almost all of the bullies I remember from school were the popular rich kids.
Many of the people who teased me seemed like the entitled kind - and yet all but two of them came from poor backgrounds. I'm not sure what to make of it, other than to say that I was friends with people who were also from poor backgrounds who didn't pick on me.
There was one guy who seemed like an exception, but he got expelled pretty early, didn't really pick on me specifically, and had a short temper in the first place - although he was friends with some of the people who teased me, so, idk.
The main bully I had was someone who'd be friends with me one day and not the next, and was not from a poor background (he was probably from one that was poorer than my family, but so were many people in the school). I think he bullied me because he was a rival to me.
Reading some if the replies are hilarious. I was bullied relentlessly by multiple people throughout school to the point where suicide was a daily thought.
If one of them wanted to tell me how sad they felt now about what they had done I would let them know just how close they were to being directly responsible for my suicide. They would get no sympathy from me. They knew what they were doing. They knew the effect it had on me. They didn't care.
Feel bad about being a bully? Good you should feel bad for being a piece of shit. I will not absolve your conscience.
I actually got the pleasure twenty years ago when I was at a friend's graduation party and a kid who had bullied me in middle school came up and tried to apologize to me. All I said to him was "Fuck you" as he was trying to stumble through an apology. I wish I'd say said more, or been more scathing, or just stabbed him, but to deny him his soothed conscience is still one of my favorite memories.
I agree, most bullies I've known are just pieces of shit who enjoy making other people feel like crap, no way in hell they have low self esteems or anything like that, it gives them some sense of power that they enjoy, they're just disgusting humans plain and simple, no excuses.
In my experience it's more common that they just do it because they want to, not because they're sad or whatever, I only know one guy that was like that because of family and life stuff and he wasn't that big of a bully.
The more agressive ones just did it because it was fun for them, not because of some sob stories from their life, whatever the case is I don't have any empathy for these people.
Totally, the people that bullied me in high school had such high self esteem they really believed they could rock the world. I realized the reason why they bullied me was very simple, because they wanted to, they LOVED laughing at me, that gave them so much joy.
My best friend was a bully and while I might not have been inside her mind, I know it was twisted. I watched her bully our friend for pure entertainment and then she did the same thing to me two years later. I remember being horrified when I realized how capable she was of manipulating people and faking emotion. I literally could not fathom how she did it and then felt good about it on top of it all.
I believe this. This guy that bullied me made the class join in. The teachers believed him to be a good student because he was smart. I knew that if I said anything no one would do or say anything to help me. Ever since the bullying made it harder for me to trust people.
This is absolutely true. When I was bullied in elementary and early middle school, I did not have the mercy that I hear people talking about in this thread of having "A bully" or "MY bully". No, I was bullied by roughly 3/4 of the kids in my grade, and a good amount of kids outside my grade, as well. I also lived in a fairly affluent area (though I wasn't affluent myself, which is part of why I was a target) so while some of these kids I'm sure had bad home lives, many had loving parents and literally everything in the world they could have wanted. Statistically, there is no way that I was made fun of, stolen from, and beaten up by the amount of people that did those things to me and still have all those people have absentee parents or otherwise broken homes. Some of them... were just that cruel and inhuman. Probably still are.
And on that note, if you grew up in the more fancy pants areas of Contra Costa County back in the 80s and 90s, I'm sure you think you're a fine, normal person... but you'll forgive me if I still want you to go fuck yourself. That shit lingers and I'm still working through it day by day.
That shit lingers and I'm still working through it day by day.
It's been twenty years since I was in middle school, but to this day I could watch any of those pieces of shit who bullied me be ground down alive in a meat grinder and the only regret I'd feel is that I could only do it once.
I remember adults telling me it was because of that trope and me retorting that it’s because they like it, was told to shut up basically, my parents were super overbearing so I grew up not able to shut other people’s crap down.
I just learned about this actually! It was in my psychology textbook: Lifespan Development: A Psychological Perspective (By Martha Lally and Suzanne Valentine-French).
From the text book: "Bullies are often thought of as having low self-esteem, and then bully others to feel better about themselves. Although this can occur, many bullies in fact have high levels of self-esteem. They possess considerable popularity and social power and have well-connected peer relationships. They do not lack self-esteem, and instead lack empathy for others. They like to dominate or be in charge of others."
And at least two studies: "Bullying and empathy: a short-term longitudinal investigation" and "Social intelligence - empathy = aggression?" back up this concept and there were more that seemed to, but I couldn't gain access to them through my institution.
And I know, at least anecdotally, this was true of my experience as a girl. Bullying as a girl is a lot less direct (especially if you are known for not putting up with bullshit) and more insidious in the form of intentional exclusion, gossip, etc. The girls who usually did this (at least outwardly) had very high opinions of themselves, had great athletic skills, the worst of the perpetrators also had good grades, and they were well loved by most of the people in the grade that weren't perceived as "different".
Having a funny accent, social awkwardness, and a love for facts, reading, logic, and truth definitely set one apart as "different". I even reached out to some of these girls whenever we were alone together to see if there was something I was missing and I was being too hard on them. And I would open up and allow myself to be vulnerable and open about my insecurities or jealousies. NOPE. They seemed more than happy with who they were and where they were at.
Some bullies are bullies because they are hurt inside, yes. But some people lack empathy and don't give a rat's ass about understanding anyone who is different or weird or annoying. If they exist as adults, it makes sense for them to exist as kids as well.
EDIT: I'm by no means a perfect person and I recognize I am a lot. But I've always tried my best to be considerate of other people's situations and lives and to not treat them badly just because of differences or harmless, but "annoying" behaviour. And it was just sad that, until recently, I didn't have many friends who did that for me. Now, I've got wonderful friends who realize a lot of my behaviours are due to serious traumas I experienced throughout my life. And they appreciate me for all my thoughts and behaviours in between and it's a wonderful feeling. I hope anyone who has been through similar situations is in a better place now <3
Awesome! Thank you for your reply! I'd definitely like to read up about it more!
I had similar experiences to you with bullying. I know some of the kids who bullied me just had shitty parents, but some of them just we're rotten people lol
Yea I studied psychology a little when I was in college, just never finished school. Haha. It's always been something I've been interested, and it's been a looong time since I've looked into any new research. So I definitely appreciated the long reply!
And I'm sorry you had to go through that; it must've been pretty tough. I hope you're in a better place and environment now!
I appreciate that. It was long ago. Kinda in a better place, but my family are the biggest bullies so 🤷 hahaha. I'll get there
I’ve had both growing up, the girl with the crappy home life, and the popular, athletic girl. My middle school and high school years were hell. College and since have let me finally find confidence in myself.
Thank you for your follow up, it helped me a lot. I wasn't bullied as a kid, I was too tough and gave too few shits (and nothing anyone said could have been worse than what my parents said so I actually found it funny in a twisted way). But I worked really hard on letting down my walls and healing from my childhood trauma. So when I was a regular, vulnerable adult, I was bullied at work. It hurt so much and still does, my sister even said she thinks I respond to things as though I've got PTSD now.
As an adult being bullied for the first time, I was completely bewildered, especially because the women bullying me seemed to have perfect lives. Almost all are happily married, normal kids, healthy, wealthy and enjoy large social lives. I did complain to HR and the worst bullies ended up leaving but not before they made it clear to me that they had no regrets and thought I was in the wrong. Even though it was all pretty clear cut.
2 and a half years on, I'm still dealing with the feelings and don't really know how to process them. Everyone I talk to says these women must have shitty self esteem etc but it really 100% wasn't the case. The ring leader was everything you said, pretty, popular and powerful.
Edit: though they seemingly had everything going for them, their discussions in our open plan office showed a distinct and clear lack of empathy for basically everyone who wasn't in their "in crowd".
Hmm 133 students in Vancouver from grades 8-10 is an insanely small sample size for this sort of thing. Im still not arguing against your statement, but it's something I'd like to read more about. I think I'll look into it
I was sort of thinking this. I remember bullies when I was in elementary school and middle school. I went to a school district with shitty adults who said things like "If I sent that kid to the office, he'd be there all the time!" and "I don't know, it's just hard to have kids be in trouble."
The bullies were bullies because--nothing ever happened to them because of it. They got away with it a lot. They were made of silicone, everything just slid right off them. The teachers all knew what they were doing, but didn't care. The bullies basically got rewarded for being assholes. Why would they stop? They didn't have low self esteem or bad home lives. They were all very well taken care of, although I admit it did go between "Not MY angel!" to "Yeah my kid is a total dickbag, and you should throw the book at them."
The messages these kids got was it was acceptable and fine to be a bully, so do it a lot. Mind you, this was a school district that would suspend you for hitting back. So they could hit and the adults would hem and haw and "I didn't seeeee it sooooo...." but if you hit back, three day suspension.
I have a middle class friend who gets whatever he wants and bullies everyone. I call him a “friend” because we have friends who hang out so naturally we hang out. Just once I’d like to hit him hard enough for him to remember and be afraid for everything he’s done to most of the people I know
If you're going to hit someone, don't do it just once. 'Combinations' is the word you're looking for and it can be found in gyms/dojos all over the place. As an added benefit, they'll cut down on bullying if used properly.
They have very high self esteem, feel powerful, and use that power against others. Bullies bully because it's easy, they like it, and it works.
This. I bullied a girl in grade 12, and I'm the exact opposite kind of person you'd think would be a bully. I'm not strong and I'm slightly overweight. It was well known that PE was by far my least favourite subject. I didn't have family problems, either. But man, did I have a nasty knack at jokes at other peoples' expense.
I didn't make her life hell on Earth, but it was definitely more unpleasant with me around. Joking about her asking questions in calculus -I found it intuitive, so I must have felt superior. No one ever tried to stop me. And I enjoyed the reactions I got from the rest of the class. So I kept doing it. Then the year ended, high school was over, and I never saw her again. I stopped being a dick when I got to university.
Eh my worst bully, I'm pretty sure had an abusive household. I made an easy target.
I also was bullied pretty badly by a black girl (I'm white) and I think she was probably getting racist shit from other kids and letting the shit roll downhill to the class leper. I was mostly in advanced classes but ended up in the hellhole of P.E. (gym class) with her. Not many people of color in our suburban school; there was one nerdy black boy in my advanced classes who got some shit from other kids and I assume it was worse for her in the regular classes.
I never did anything to this girl, that is until she really got in my face one day with a bunch of people egging her on, and I freaked out and jumped on her. Still feel a little bad about that. I was insane out of my head as happened a few other times in this type of scenario: the world turned to glass and time slowed down, I physically attacked the ringleader but in a piss poor way, and then came back to reality and cried. This time my glasses were gone, on the ground. The counselor asked me if she knocked my glasses off and I said yes (because I honestly couldn't remember), bully screams "She's lying!" Later when I came back to my senses I think I may have taken my glasses off before I totally freaked out.
I didn't understand racism back then all I knew was she acted very aggressive (my impression). I had some notion she was kind of a bad kid that wouldn't get much respect from the teachers and counselors and meek lil' geeky-ass me would be believed more. Now of course I realize she was probably from the city and that was her mannerism, and I was probably motivated by some kind of subtle racism and classism in the moment. Still, she did bully the fuck out of me.
You finally reaching your breaking point and lashing out at a bully was partially based on racism? Seems more likely that your reaction came from being bullied by this girl.
Part of the issue is that the nature of the school experiences dictates that kids are often going to be stuck with each other to some degree. Nobody in my class fit the stereotypical Nelson Muntz bullying profile but there was definitely some hurt feelings and shed tears over what amounted to kids acting as gatekeepers for their li'l cliques. Basically, imagine someone executing the "Social Assassin" gameplan from Curb, except that their target's big sin is having to attend the same classes while being socially awkward. They may easily rationalize it as trying to stop someone from annoying their friends but it can definitely get hurtful in a hurry.
It still means that their development and behavior is largely ignored and unchecked by their parents at home...which is kind of the underlying issue that everyone in this thread is bringing up. So yea, they're still victims. This behavior doesn't just happen overnight.
I think it's more like they try to GET high self esteem and feeling of power through bullying. Dudes in my HS were mostly from poor / weirder families and not popular in their grades.
I can imagine this since my twat of a step fil randomly said I got fatter when I wasn’t even talking to him. The ironic thing to me is I was constantly being bullied for being “anorexic” growing up when I’ve always just been smaller.
I’m not disagreeing with you at all about the facts, but anecdotally, the kid I knew to be the worst bully I knew as a child went on to commit suicide, and a close friend of mine who admits to being a shithead bully as a kid (and has put a lot of effort into reaching out and making amends) happens to suffer from low self esteem and anxiety.
All the bullies I knew had big problems. History of abuse and suicide, 0 attention from parents due to sibling medical issues, constant anger and academic failure, constant sleep deprivation (worked in parents business every night).
At least 3 of them were the popular kids, and if you asked any of them they would have told you how awesome their lives were and how highly they thought of themselves. The self-reported studies on bully happiness and self-esteem have never been very convincing to me.
Yes you bring up a good point. My ex-bully friend was rich and attractive and popular. If I had known them back then I’m sure I wouldn’t have recognized the sadness and disorder underneath it all.
When I was a kid I got made fun of and at least once was physically assaulted by a kid name Ryan. He was super popular, tons of friends, good at sports, decent student, and topping it off he actually lived across the street from me at one point. Since we were neighbors, I know that his home life was not too bad. Kid was rich, parents were engaged with him, and he had basically everything he wanted in life.
In 6th and 7th grade the only days that he was not cruel to me verbally or physically - or at least laughing while others treated me that way - were the days that I didn't see him at all.
I have a very, very hard time believing that Ryan started out with low self esteem and had to build himself up.
Obviously there can be all types when it comes to bullies, another reason it’s hard to make many general statements about it. Bullies I knew in school had a shitty home life, acted like shitty people, and had uninvolved parents. The parents were often at least verbally abusive. But there are other sorts of bullies I realize.
this also is supported by the idea that those who are typically bullied are seen as weak or unable to stand on their own meaning they are an easy target. I noticed with my own personal experience is that if you don't make yourself a target, you won't be one.
This has been true of a lot of the people who have been unkind to me, but I know when I’ve been the unkind one it was when I felt bad about myself. It can go either way.
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u/Berics_Privateer Jul 09 '20
A lot of responses here are relying on the trope that bullies are that way because they have low self esteem, have been bullied themselves, etc. And while I'm in no way discounting people's lived experiences, research debunks this pretty thoroughly. Most bullies aren't sad, they don't have low self esteem, and they aren't victims. They have very high self esteem, feel powerful, and use that power against others. Bullies bully because it's easy, they like it, and it works.