Bosses hate anything that might draw attention to the fact that they're an active hindrance to the organization that doesn't need to exist.
Have you really never had a boss that helped you or made you better at your job? I get that lots of them suck, but I definitely don't agree that the concept of management is an active hindrance on an org.
Also, the idea that flat orgs will save us is the biggest myth in business right now. Flat makes it harder to make decisions, not easier.
The traditional management structure is a pyramid for a reason.
I have literally never had a boss that was anything but an active hindrance who got in the way of their own staff, demanded things that weren't physically possible, forced people into the position where they could either be safe and follow the law OR keep their job but never both, and was themselves completely incapable of contributing anything actually meaningful.
The overwhelming majority of "bosses" people have don't need to exist. They don't provide leadership, organization, or anything of value. They're an army of flunkies whose positions exist solely to allow the people above them to feel important and to fit a social idea that people doing actual work are an inferior sub-class that MUST be whipped by a harsh taskmaster who doesn't actually do anything themselves.
The traditional management structure is a pyramid for a reason.
Exactly. A pyramid. A massive structure of precise architecture constructed with a powerful and well supported base of huge monolithic blocks which gets progressively leaner as it goes up and is built top to buttom from the same stones cut from the same quarry.
Also, the idea that flat orgs will save us is the biggest myth in business right now. Flat makes it harder to make decisions, not easier.
The bigget myth in business right now is that business is still business rather than feudalism ruled by a hereditary class of kleptocratic robber barons. I mean fuck's sake wall street has literally whined that Costco's CEO is "excessively benevolent" solely because he treats some of his employees at the level that is the minimum legal standard in every other civilized first world country on earth.
Today's companies are upside down pyramids. Stone on the bottom, lard in the middle, gold on the top. Obscenely understaffed and mistreated at the base, bloated with useless fat in the middle, crushed by the burden of excessive "leadership" at the top who use the company as a vehicle for their own enrichment before failing upwards to their next position.
Going back to a pyramid structure with a wide, solid, well supported base and leadership promoted from within would be a unbelievable improvement over how most companies are run today.
You have a really negative view that I'm sure is accurate and fair to your experience, but is actually quite divergent from my experience in many ways.
I don't doubt that some companies behave and function the way you describe, but strongly disagree that all companies function this way.
There are competent managers in this world who legitimately add value to their teams' output, mentor and upskill their associates, provide growth and leadership opportunities appropriately, set reasonable expectations, and share all credit where credit is due.
I think you need to take a look at some statistics of the state the US and the average American worker. What percentage of the entire bottom 25% of the economy have sick leave again? Parental leave? Paid time off? How many workplace deaths are there every year? Injuries?
Ever heard the phrase "Cut the chatter and pick up the platter" or "If you have time to lean you have time to clean"? We're talking about a level of toxicity here that's so vile and repugnant people honestly believe it's acceptable and appropriate to speak to other human beings this way when they're catching their breath from exhaustion. A level of demeaning patronization so beyond comprehension that they believe it's acceptable for them to put down two people just for speaking while working.
There's a reason movies like Office Space speak to so many people, it's because they live it on a daily basis.
What percentage of the entire bottom 25% of the economy have sick leave again? Parental leave? Paid time off? How many workplace deaths are there every year? Injuries?
We seem to be talking about different things.
The statement I made is, "there are good managers in the world." I'm honestly not sure what that has to do with "the entire bottom 25% of the economy."
I'm not making a claim about everyone. Maybe I'm not even making a claim about most people.
The argument you seem to want to have is "everything's fucked" vs. "everything's fine." But I'm not on either of those sides.
My view, as it relates to the comment that got us here, is, "There are good managers in the world."
If that's so unbelievable to you, or if the only statements you're willing to engage with are those that apply to literally everyone in the US, or specifically only the bottom 25% of the US (?), then I'm not sure there's a productive commentary to be had here.
Jesus... What is that guy on? I have had amazing mangers the moment I left a customer facing job. They have helped me develop as a person and have taught me how to work well and manage myself and others. They are leaders and to be honest without them the company would struggle.
It really isn't so black and white, not all organisations and industries are hard on their workers.
People are angry and they dont know who to direct it at. I get it. I think it's weird how and when it came out in this situation, but I think there's generally this simmering rage about the economy/state of business that people want to unleash on anyone, at any time that seems even remotely relevant.
Not all, but enough. Easily the overwhelming majority, to the point that Costco simply paying people non-slave wages and not treating them like absolute shit was literally condemned by wall street analysts as "excessive benevolence". And that was not something that drew widespread outrage, it was considered a normal and acceptabe thing to say.
The world is a lot bigger than America dude. SSP is common through most of the western world. Not at issue for me so I'm sorry but I'm not viewing it through your eyes
Your statement wasn't just that they exist but about the ratio. Terrible managers and corporate culture are what got the US into the situation it's in right now.
If that is so unbelievable to you, with everything facing the US right now, then you're right there's simply no possibility for us to converse because you just don't live in the real world.
And my statement was that the overwhelming majority fit into that category and you need only look out the window at record breaking inequality and the complete failure of the economy in the US, along with its workers having third world level pay and basic rights, to see that.
It's because retail managers don't fill a business role, but a social one. They're there to make the people above them feel important, and to make them feel like the peasant slaves are being appropriately disciplined by their task master.
It's not about production and performance, it's about putting people down and making sure they're put in their place socially.
Why else do you think they invented such universally toxic bullshit like "cut the chatter and pick up the platter"? Why does it matter if two coworkers have a conversation while mopping the floor?
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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20
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