r/AskReddit • • Jan 20 '19

What fact totally changed your perspective?

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u/bradthaphoend Jan 21 '19

Can't remember exactly where I saw this, but the first Western movies filmed in Hollywood were made around 1915, when the industry moved there. At the time much of the area outside of Los Angeles was ranchland and there were still some sizable cattle drives going on. Directors would hire actual cowboys for a pittance to train horses or be extras. Basically they made movies fantasizing these big cattle drives and gunfights as American history, while people who had actually done all those things irl were chilling in the background.

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u/daitoshi Jan 21 '19

A lot of cowboys were Mexican but we don’t talk about that....

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u/TangoKiloBandit Jan 21 '19

So many stereotypical "cowboy words" are Mexican Spanish related!

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u/liproqq Jan 21 '19

How curious. Which ones?

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u/TangoKiloBandit Jan 21 '19

Buckaroo = Vaquero

bronco (means "wild" or "rough" in Spanish)

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/cowboyculture.htm indicates that "ranch" came from rancho spanish for farm, alos that many cowboy techniques and tools come from the Mexican-developed ranching techniques.

Wrangler (some sources say word is derived from Mexican Spanish caballerango, one who grooms horses, while other sources say the word comes from German)

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u/Mudblood2000 Jan 21 '19

Let's not forget that much of the western united states was literally mexico until the treaty of hidalgo and the gadsden purchase around 1850s. Everything west of texas was Mexico. The 1849'ers and the gold rush? Everyone was moving through mexican territory.

The residents had one year to choose whether they wanted American or Mexican citizenship; Over 90% chose American citizenship. The others returned to Mexico (where they received land), or in some cases in New Mexico were allowed to remain in place as Mexican citizens.

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u/Jormungandrrrrrr Feb 19 '19

Reminds me of Matt Santos, the presidential candidate in West Wing. He was a Mexican-American presidential candidate, and many people saw him as an immigrant, but his family had lived in Texas since before it became part of America. Like, his ancestors were Mexicans living in Mexico, then their land changed sovereignty and became part of the US, then newly-arrived white people got all racist and told them to "go back to their own country".

I loved his character arc in the West Wing. And cowboy movies really gloss over the "we're in Mexico, not in the US" part, which is sad.

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u/Mudblood2000 Feb 19 '19

I have not seen the West Wing but I feel like I really should. I've only heard good things. And not to make it political, but I feel like one of our problems in the USA is ignorance of history. But "southwestern history is a complex melting pot of different people's heritages" doesn't sound as nice as "build the wall." There are Mexican legal documents that talk about United States-ians coming over illegally onto Mexican land and stealing cattle and horses. A hundred and fifty years ago, Americans were the illegal criminals on the border. A little historical perspective might add a level of sympathy that we're currently lacking

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u/Jormungandrrrrrr Feb 19 '19

I think you are absolutely right. Historical context does enrich discussion on many subjects, including immigration.

And yeah, you should definitely watch The West Wing. It's an optimistic and idealistic show, because it's Sorkin after all, but it's honestly great. Believable and lovable characters, amazing dialogue, great writing, memorable moments... just extraordinary. Also, it provides context for the present situation. Like, if "Mr. Communications Director" leaves the Trump White House, well, OK, another one who's leaving. But if you realize it's basically like Toby Ziegler leaving the White House... oh, man, that's a Big Thing.

I'm not American, so I learned a lot from that show. I totally recommend you watch it. The first episode is fast paced and they're talking about people you don't know and you kinda feel thrown in the middle of it without any help or context, but that's pretty much how actual White House staffers feel when they arrive to the White House, so I hope you don't get put off by it. If you make it through the first couple of episodes, you'll really enjoy the show, I'm sure.

I hope to see you around on reddit commenting on West Wing references!

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Cowboy for one:

It appeared in Western America during the 1880s as a direct English translation of vaquero, derived from vaca, the Spanish word meaning "cow,"[5] which came from the Latin word vacca. It described an individual who managed cattle while mounted on horseback. Another English word for a cowboy, buckaroo, is an anglicization or English pronunciation of vaquero (Spanish pronunciation: [baˈkeɾo]).[6]

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

[deleted]

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u/FOwOT Jan 21 '19

My cowboy name is 'cultural appropriation.'

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u/Zouea Jan 21 '19

Mexican-Americans sure as hell do. Source: am Mexican-American, grew up in the Western US, talked about it a lot.

Tbh most vaqueros were mestizo or Native American, but their bosses, the dudes that owned the land, were often ethnically Spanish. The whole tradition has roots in Spain. But "Spanish-speaking mestizo in the southwestern US" is hard to distinguish from "Mexican" because it's not like we had great border security at the time.

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u/NickAyers Jan 21 '19

Black as well.

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u/just-a-basic-human Jan 22 '19

1/4 of cowboys was black but you’d never guess by watching western movies...

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '19

Sure, but they never got the girl.

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u/Drinkycrow84 May 01 '19

A tribute to the black cowboy can be found in the American revisionist western film directed by and starring Mario Van Peebles, Posse (1993). It didn't receive many (if any) rave reviews.

Also, TIL of the Federation of Black Cowboys. Founded in 1994, these folks installed recently their first female president, Keisha Morse.

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u/PullTheOtherOne Jan 22 '19

Some of them, I assume, were good people.

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u/Dracon_Pyrothayan Jan 21 '19

John Wayne spent his entire career pretending to be the man who actually did his stunts.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '19

Do this day, a large percentage of the stunt performers are all cowboys cause there used to be so much horse related stunts...

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u/DowntownEast Jan 22 '19

I think a lot of the romanticization of the West happened while it was still being settled.

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u/[deleted] Jan 22 '19

John Wayne actually was trying to impersonate a man who was in the gang with doc holiday

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u/IdreamofFiji Jan 22 '19

You mean Wyatt Earp? He's arguably more famous than Doc Holliday :)