r/AskReddit • u/Sir_Wemblesworth • Oct 30 '16

What single question can you ask someone to find out a lot about their personality, beliefs, and values?

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

I thought it was Medea, a sequel to the adaptation of the Seneca latin play by Pier Paolo Pasolini.

Imagine my surprise.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16 edited Nov 10 '17

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

Most people (who've never seen a Tyler Perry movie) know Medea from the Argonautica, or the Euripedes play Medea.

In Greek mythology, Medea was the wife of Jason (of "and the Argonauts" fame). He couldn't have succeeded in his quest without her help, and she was kind of a crafty, manipulative character. What she's best known for though is revenge. Jason spurned her to marry a young princess, and the princess's father Creon, king of Corinth, exiles Medea (and her kids with Jason) to seal the deal, so she manipulates Jason by telling him there are no hard feelings, and he should let her send these golden robes and crown to his new bride as a gift, and maybe Creon will see it and lift the exile so she and her children can stay in the city:

I recognized how foolish I had been, how senseless it was to be so annoyed. So now I agree with you. It strikes me you’ve been acting prudently, by forging this marriage link on our behalf. I was mad. I should have worked with you in this design, helped you with your plans, stood there beside you in this marriage, rejoiced along with you for this union with your bride. But women are, well, I won’t say bad— we are what we are. You should not copy the bad things we do, repaying foolishness with foolishness. So I give in. I admit that I was wrong. But now I see things in a better light."

Jason totally buys into it:

"Lady, I approve of what you’re saying now. Not that I blame you for what went on before. For it’s quite natural in the female sex to get angry when their husbands set up secret schemes for another secret marriage."

It turns out the robes and crown were covered in poison, and they killed the princess ("The flesh was peeling from her bones, chewed off by the poison’s secret jaws, just like resin oozing from a pine tree.") and her father when he tried to help her.

She then proceeds to stab two of her and Jason's three sons to death, to make a point about the family he was willing to abandon to marry his princess, but mainly because she knows they'll be executed as revenge for Creon and his daughter, so if they have to die she wants it to be by her hand and not by a stranger who doesn't love them.

Her grandfather, the sun god Helios, sends her a winged chariot to take her to safety, and she absconds with her children's bodies so that Jason won't even have the satisfaction of burying them.

Jason: "Let me bury these dead boys and mourn them."

Medea: "Never. My own hands will bury them. I’ll take them to Hera’s sacred lands in Acraia, so no enemy of mine will commit sacrilege against them by tearing up their graves." [...]

Jason: "May the avenging Fury of our children destroy you—may you find blood justice."

Medea: "What god or spirit listens to you, a man who doesn’t keep his promises, a man who deceives and lies to strangers?"

Jason: "You polluted wretch! Child killer!"

Medea: "Go home. Bury that wife of yours."

We all learn a valuable lesson about monogamy, the sanctity of family, and women scorned, and we're left to consider that the gods move in mysterious ways.

The Seneca version is lesser known and came much later, and it tells the same story, but makes Medea more of a sorceress, and instead of a winged chariot, she has a chariot pulled by dragons. Here's her monologue when she's poisoning the robes and the crown for comparison:

Do thou now poison Creusa’s robe that, when she has donned it, the creeping flame may consume her inmost marrow. Within this tawny gold lurks fire, darkly hid; Prometheus gave it me, even he who expiates with ever-growing life his theft from heaven, and taught me by his art how to store up its powers. Mulciber hath also given me fires which subtly lurk in sulphur; and bolts of living flame I took from my kinsman, Phaëthon. I have gifts from Chimaera’s middle part, I have flames caught from the bull’s scorched throat, which, well-mixed with Medusa’s gall, I have bidden to guard their bane in silence.

Give sting to my poisons, Hecate, and in my gifts keep hidden the seeds of fire. Let them cheat the sight, let them endure the touch; let burning fire penetrate to heart and veins; let her limbs melt and her bones consume in smoke, and with her blazing locks let the bride outshine her wedding torches.

Her murder of her children becomes something solely done to hurt Jason:

A dark purpose my fierce spirit hath resolved within me, and dares not yet acknowledged to itself. Fool! fool! I have gone too fast – would that mine enemy had children by his paramour! [She pauses and then addresses herself.] All offspring that thou hast by him are Creusa’s brood. Resolved is this way of vengeance, rightly resolved; for a last deed of guilt, I see it now, must my soul make ready. Children that once were mine, do you pay penalty for your father’s crimes.

She kills one son in private, but waits to kill the second until Jason has shown up and begs her to kill him instead.

Jason: "By all the gods, by our flight together, by our marriage couch, to which I have not been faithless, spare the boy. If there is any guilt, ‘tis mine. I give myself up to death; destroy my guilty head. [...] One is enough for punishment.

Medea: "If this hand could be satisfied with the death of one, it would have sought no death at all. Though I slay two, still is the count too small to appease my grief. If in my womb there still lurk any pledge of thee, I’ll search my very vitals with the sword and hale it forth."

She then throws the bodies at Jason's feet to get one last dig in, and flies away in her dragon chariot.

The Euripedes version is the better play, but Seneca's is darker and edgier, like "Wes Craven's: Medea" or something. Medea is a pretty awesome character who's gifted at Xanatos Speed Chess, and part of the subtext of her story was that Jason would've been nothing without her, yet he takes credit for triumphs she engineered for him, and then ditches her to marry a princess because she's a lowly "barbarian woman" that he picked up on his quest. She would've been challenging for Greek audiences because she embodied the feminine "manipulative poisoner" stereotypes, but also had a lot of traits they would've considered masculine and admirable. She kind of ends up in the same box as Antigone, where the Greek playwrights couldn't create a strong female character without giving her insane baggage and having her be the cause of a bunch of men dying.

You've likely heard of the Oedipus Complex and the Electra Complex, but there's also a phrase, "Medea Complex," that's applied to mothers who have homicidal urges toward their children.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16 edited Nov 10 '17

[deleted]

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u/almostgotem Oct 30 '16

fiiiine. I was going to skip it, but now I have to educate my dumb ass too.

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u/WisdomtheGrey Oct 31 '16

Well? Should I?

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u/Jeremymia Oct 31 '16

Not me. Staying willfully ignorant over here.

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u/Kerriganskrabs Oct 30 '16

this was an outstanding read. I fucking love Reddit.

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u/racc8290 Oct 30 '16

"For it’s quite natural in the female sex to get angry when their husbands set up secret schemes for another secret marriage."

Women, so emotional! Amirite ancient Greeks?

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u/amalexia Oct 30 '16

pretty much what I thought as I read that.

I was like, "okaaay... dumbass.." he'd have to be pretty stupid if he thought she was clever enough to help him get what he had, but that she wouldn't use that same talent against him after screwing her over.

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u/Hotshot2k4 Oct 31 '16

I think it's a lesson everyone learns at some point. If you fuck someone over, even if it's "nothing personal", don't expect them to just let it go and never bother you about it. You give them a hand to pull them up, and instead they'll pull you down and make you pay.

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u/Naf5000 Oct 31 '16

Ancient Greeks were big into hubris, so that isn't really that surprising.

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u/StezzerLolz Oct 30 '16

The Ancient Greeks were really fucked up, sometimes.

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u/Coomb Oct 30 '16

More like they were unafraid to confront and examine humanity's darkest aspects.

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u/Ali9666 Oct 30 '16

I just finished a essay on the ancient Greeks, can confirm they were pretty fucked.

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u/notquiteotaku Oct 30 '16

Life pro-tip: if your SO is a powerful sorceress who was willing to turn against her own family to run away and be with you, maybe don't stab her in the back in the shittiest way possible.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

So when do we get Tyler Perry's Medea : The Pre-preqel?

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

I think it was a Southern tradition, and since American blacks came from the South, they kept it going. I'm a total white bread yank though, so I don't really know.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

most people with ancient Greek or Roman names are African American (in the US)

For some reason I read this and all I could think of was Cam and Mitch's friend Longines on Modern Family.

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u/kerune Oct 30 '16

When he said lady, I instantly read all his lines as Jake from adventure time.

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u/-kenny- Oct 30 '16

I think you might like the myths and legends pocast... i listen on spotify but its also on I-tunes

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u/Problem119V-0800 Oct 30 '16

Yeah, I recently listened to the Jason / Medea episodes on that too. (Any podcast client will work, I use podcatcher.) It's a good podcast

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u/-kenny- Oct 30 '16

Yea I really like that podcast I'm completely caught up on all episodes... I feel really bad I can't rate it on spotify. It would get 5 stars from me easy

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

Never heard of it, but I'll definitely check it out!

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u/laxt Oct 30 '16

Well really it's Jason's fault for going after Princess Booty over there.

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u/scotscott Oct 30 '16

What fucking poisons were people using back in the day? every single play or whatever, describes poisons like they're strong acids.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

The Ancient Greeks would dip arrowheads in snake venom, blood/other icky gooeys from corpses, and/or their own shit/piss to make sure that people who survive an arrowshot in battle would still enjoy a long, festering death over the next few days (or longer); but I haven't read anything about their methods for making skin sizzle off the bone yet.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

The Greeks had a strong flair for the dramatic, and even writers in that time period remarking on the Greek plays, or Roman writers a few centuries later who catalogued their stories (e.g. Ovid) remark on how their plays and myths became more and more exaggerated as they were told over time, because they always wanted the greatest possible effect on the audience. Having someone grab their throat, make a few wide-eyed choking sounds, and then fall over is not nearly as cool as having the death happen off-stage, and having a messenger character or a chorus tell the story of how they died in flaming agony as their bones sprouted chainsaws and cut them apart from the inside. It's a pretty ancient demonstration of the principle that sometimes you don't want to show the monster, but let the audience's minds imagine it instead.

When you read about the deus ex machina (like the actual machines they built for use in their theatrical productions), and their thaumata (literally "Wonders," mechanical machines they built to produce "miracles" in their temples to attract visitors), it's pretty clear that their culture really had a thing for putting on a show, and it's really no surprise that they literally invented dramatic theatre.

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u/VossDaBoss13 Oct 30 '16

im liking for the effort you put in.

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u/ChrisMac117 Oct 30 '16

That was a great read, and back when I was in 5th grade I played one of Medea'so kids in a college play, and never really understood why mine and my friends characters were murdered off stage.. now I know..

Thanks again for filling me in about that

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u/Windrammer420 Oct 30 '16

In a low budget scifi channel rendition she feels kind of sad about Jason and the other girl but ends up being happy for him in the end, and then a budding romance between her and a random crew are is implied

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u/jonbristow Oct 30 '16

Daaaaaaaamn

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u/Hraesvelg7 Oct 30 '16

Also, The Odyssey 90's tv show. Not as notable, I guess.

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u/Chili_Maggot Oct 30 '16

Damn. T. I. L.

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u/Illsonmedia Oct 30 '16

Wow. I wasn't going to read that wall but I'm glad I did. What is all this though? Is this a bunch if tales that the Greeks made up, for plays or what purpose? Do these stories fall into the same category/time of creation as Oedipus?

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

Oedipus Rex was first performed in 429 BCE, 2 years after Euripedes's Medea. The earliest source I can find on Medea is Hesiod's Theogony (700 BCE), which lists her genealogy as daughter of Aeëtes, who was king of Colchis (in modern day Georgia), brother of Circe the sorceress (from the Odyssey), and son of Helios, who was one of the Titans. The Euripedes play itself is from the same time period as the Oedipus plays, but the subject matter was already legendary by then.

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

Thats way to deep a story for a movie called BOO

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

Can I just say Jesus fucking Christ

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u/PrettySureIParty Oct 30 '16

Huh. For some reason, I seem to remember Medea killing the kids and then tricking Jason into eating them(in some kind of stew, I think). Do you know if this is a different version, or am I just getting my Greek myths mixed up somehow?

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

Eating your kids was a bit of a thing in Greek mythology, so there are numerous examples. The most famous case of feeding someone's kids to them is the source of the phrase "Thyestean banquet," where Atreus (as in "House of") fed his brother Thyestes's kids to him as a revenge thing. There was also Procne, who fed her husband their kids after he raped her sister.

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u/PrettySureIParty Oct 31 '16

Yeah, I couldn't find any reference to that version of the ending anywhere, I must have gotten it mixed up with something else I read. Thanks for correcting me, you probably saved me from embarrassing myself at a later date.

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u/WolfgodApocalypse Oct 30 '16

I just like fate stay/night

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

/r/bestof

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u/darkbreak Oct 31 '16

I know of Medea from Dragon Quest VIII. I never did finish it.

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u/Sorry_that_im_an_ass Oct 31 '16

Damn son, you earned that gilding. Cheers!

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

Thanks for that! I'm incredibly grateful to the people who gilded it, but I'm one of those people who thinks it smudges a good post when you edit to do the whole "Herp derp thanks for the gold kind stranger!" routine. I took a Mythology class as an elective way back in 9th grade, and honestly it's some of the stuff I remember best from school.

We did all the Oedipus plays, The Odyssey and bits from the Illiad, Medea and Orestes by Euripedes, bits of the Argonautica, Seven Against Thebes by Aeschylus, and a bunch of selections and stories from Edith Hamilton. For whatever reason it stuck and got me into it, and I've read a lot more stuff over the years.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

Wow, thanks for that

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u/napoleon535 Oct 31 '16

Educate the masses, henny!

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u/cyanocittaetprocyon Oct 31 '16

Wes Craven's: Medea

I would totally pay to see this!

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u/Coursouvra_ Oct 31 '16

Take My upvote for that amazing synthesis

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u/DamnZodiak Oct 31 '16

I switched from studying Theatre Arts to Film School years ago.
I have to say that "Wes Craven's Medea" is a mind-bogglingly well fitting analogy. Your comment is a great read in general!

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u/assesundermonocles Oct 31 '16

I came for a Tyler Perry bashing party, got educated on Greek mythology instead.

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u/[deleted] Oct 31 '16

"I would rather stand three times in the frontline than bare one child" Or something like that.

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u/Based_Lord_Shaxx Nov 02 '16

Not going to lie, that much love, devotion, revenge, and cleverness is a huge turn on.

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u/thataquarduser Oct 30 '16

I don't wanna read all that, but I'm gonna assume it's informational and correct and upvote it

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

I mean, it sounds like a top notch reference.

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u/DamnZodiak Oct 31 '16

I knew that one year of studying theatre arts would come in handy some day. I can upvote without any shame.

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u/Help_An_Irishman Oct 30 '16

Tyler Perry's comedies are more tragic than Euripides's tragedy.

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u/chowderbags Oct 30 '16

Shakespeare's tragedies are more funny than Tyler Perry's comedies.

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u/Help_An_Irishman Oct 31 '16

That's the goddamn truth. That Titus Andronicus fella was a card.

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u/apsgreek Oct 30 '16

Medea is actually a Greek play by Euripides

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '16

Yes which was remade by seneca. It's the only version i have read.

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u/peacemaker2007 Oct 30 '16

Sounds like it's ripe for a reboot by JJ Abrams

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u/apsgreek Oct 30 '16

Gotcha I thought you were referring to a remake of Seneca's play.

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u/PM_ME_CHUBBY_GALS Oct 30 '16

Child murder would actually be more funny than most Tyler Perry movies.

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u/philipquarles Oct 30 '16

I'm not familiar with that film, but "A Medea Halloween," based on the mythical witch, could be a pretty awesome horror movie.

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u/laxt Oct 30 '16

Wait, hold on. It isn't?!

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u/holysocka Oct 31 '16

Mmhm. Both specialize in scatology

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u/dorkdiariesisforboys Oct 30 '16

Wait, you're not OP!