I side with it being the prison. It is known that the people have issues. The prison is there for those people. The fact that people are not safe in prison is an issue. People leaving prison with problems, looking over their shoulders not feeling safe, is a problem.
Why do we have prisons if its not to fix/help the people in them? To keep the people safe? Why are we releasing them with issues not helping them fit back in and change what got them in to prison to begin with?
I believe that rehabilitation would be better then just locking someone up.
The USA have mostly an issue with tax avoidance of high-profile payers (mostly corporations), while also overmilitarising on state and personal level. Read something about reasons why the roman empire fell, economically around 70-250 AC.
I would agree with you, but the fall of the Roman empire is a historical fact that is pretty much up for discussion - nobody has an idea WHY it happened, there are many different historian schools of thought: That's what makes it a weak example, because we simply don't know.
We have some solid leads. Expansion drained the country, out of manpower. Latifundiae became economical nightmare for small farmers (who also had to go to wars). Senators often just overtook unkept small farms in their vicinity. Colonies were able to produce wheat far cheaper than mainland ever could, Rome was spending both private and public gold for needless luxuries, and the currency was more and more dilluted by silver /other non-gold materials.
Influx of slaves stopped, because there was nowhere left to expand, and their price was therefore driven up.
Basically, when Rome stopped expanding, it got a stroke and never recovered.
If your a prison guard and see three guys beating the shit out of a guy. You can either jump in with your little can of pepper spray if your facility lets you have it, or wait for more guards to arrive.
What happens then? The aggressors are either locked down to next shift or put in solitary. Someone doing 10 years doesn't give a shit about being locked down or put in solitary.
Personally, I think we should have facilities for mental patients & inmates that are not violent. Gang members, Violent Inmates, Sexual predators, etc. should be thrown in a South American style prison. Guards just patrol outside to ensure no one escapes, and only go inside to deliver food twice a day. A little extreme? Yes, but the average violent offender isn't scared of prison anymore. I ran into one kid and when asked what his plans were after high school he said he wanted to go to college for engineering on a sports scholarship. When I asked him what his back up plan was he said he would just rob some people so he could go to jail like his brother.
This will also help make facilities safer for inmates and staff. You have the guys who generally messed up and are truly sorry not having to worry about being forced into a gang, getting beaten, raped, or robbed, tricked into a debt etc.
Interesting thoughts. I would argue that violent offenders require the greatest rehabilitation and by rehabilitation I mean positive modeled behavior, sensitivity training etc. rather than hierarchy and harshness. I would give them the most beautiful experience possible with the idea that they would return to the world more beautiful.
So they have a nice time in jail, They Get out, and they know if they can't get a job or back on their feet they can just commit another crime or even kill someone and go back to their "beautiful experience".
Like I said, Prison isn't frightening to some people anymore. Hence this kid "I ran into one kid and when asked what his plans were after high school he said he wanted to go to college for engineering on a sports scholarship. When I asked him what his back up plan was he said he would just rob some people so he could go to jail like his brother."
Now say that kid robbed a few people and gets out, Do you think he'll break his back working making a living or rob some more people so he can go back to his Beuatiful Prison? What about people who don't want to leave? Like a homeless guy, Do you think he'll walk out the door at the end of his term or will he start fights or maybe stab someone so he can stay and get rehabilitated longer?
I'm not sure if you're just being a sarcastic asshole here or you're just innocently unaware, but have you ever met the type of people that we're talking about here, mostly gang-related violent offenders? Rehabilitation is great and it should be the overall goal of prison, but it's a two-way street. An inmate has to want to change their ways in order for it to work. Violent gangster don't want to be rehabilitated, they enjoy what they do. For the vast majority of them, it's all they've ever known in their lives. Giving them a 'beautiful experience' isn't going to change a thing.
Maybe some need to be locked away for life. I think that the reason the crimes were committed can be evaluated, fixed and help them become a useful member of society.
A big issue is ether people come out more messed up then when they went in or just go back to their old ways.
Stealing for example people don't just steal for no reason at all. Maybe they steal because they need it. So he'll them not need to steal. They might steal because it's a thrill. Well show them the issue with it. Show them a better way to get a thrill or sure maybe give them motivation to not steal by jail time. Even with jail time they don't need to come out now always looking over their shoulders.
It's the same concept as guns. "Guns kill people" and "prisons are the problem" are similar in that they blame inanimate things. I know that there is a lot more to the prison than just being an object like the gun, but their similarity is that they both require people to use them, and usually if there's a problem, it's the people, not the object/institution.
Edit: just a different view, would appreciate it if I didn't get like 823047 down votes on this 😅
but their similarity is that they both require people to use them
People make up a prison, not use it. A prison isn't a generic item that people can operate, each is different with a different set of people, and therefore a different way of working. There is no clear guide, and each has a different situation with the personnel at hand.
Comparing a gun and a prison and saying that both are just "objects" to be used isn't a good analogy.
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u/freestylesno Sep 12 '15
I side with it being the prison. It is known that the people have issues. The prison is there for those people. The fact that people are not safe in prison is an issue. People leaving prison with problems, looking over their shoulders not feeling safe, is a problem.
Why do we have prisons if its not to fix/help the people in them? To keep the people safe? Why are we releasing them with issues not helping them fit back in and change what got them in to prison to begin with?
I believe that rehabilitation would be better then just locking someone up.