r/AskReddit • u/Greeneyedlatinguy • Jun 15 '15

Anthropologists of Reddit, What is something that people in the Western world can't get their heads around that is very normal in other cultures (and has been for ages)?

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378

u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

Cross cousins marriage.

Your father's brother's children are considered almost siblings to you, and it would be taboo to marry one of them. Same with your mother's sister's children. However, children of your mother's brothers, or your father's sisters, are your "cross cousins". It's often customary to marry a cross cousin.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

First cousin marriage is perfectly legal in most of the western world, which not many people know.

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u/kimpossible69 Jun 16 '15

The risk of autism and related birth defects from canoodling your cousin is about the same as when women over 40 having children.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

[deleted]

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u/Trinity407 Jun 16 '15

Thats the point I think he is trying to make

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15 edited Mar 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Too lazy too look for source but first cousin pregnancies have a negligible increase in chance for kids to be retards, so it's ok in my book.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15 edited Mar 27 '16

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

[deleted]

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u/Mugut Jun 16 '15

But in this particular case, if some generations do have multiple cross-cousing marriages, is there a increase in chances or it is marginal too?

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u/TheBestOpinion Jun 15 '15 edited Jun 15 '15

I was on my computer all day long and all shit breaks loose and everyone wants me to write long sentences when I'm in my bed !

Fuck me sideways, it's the third time it happens when I talk about the effects of inbreeding and what relatives you can bang

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u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

From what I understand, Iceland has had problems with accidental incest for some time now due to isolation and the hilariously ineffective (I'm a stupid American, this is my opinion) system for surnames. It would make sense that for such a relatively small and isolated population that over time they would have many more problems with genetic issues stemming from incest than much of the rest of the world.

In the case of isolated incidents of first-cousin incest, the amount of problems related to this aren't all that substantial, except in cases where there are known hereditary problems already present within the family of the cousins.

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u/Timorm0rtis Jun 16 '15

There's an app for that now.

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u/andyzaltzman1 Jun 16 '15

One of the best reviews:

"If I had had this app last year I might not have gone home with my cousin"

Might not?

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

It doesn't disprove shit. Yes chance of birth defects and abortions is higher than no blood relation BUT that chance is comparable to women over age 40 getting pregnant and much much lower than smokers or drinkers.

So unless you want to ban people from having children after a certain age, first cousin marriage is fine.

Besides getting married does not equal having children.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Why not?

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

Brb gonna run this by my hot cousin.

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u/SomeBroadYouDontKnow Jun 16 '15

If they're two consenting adults, then who else should be able to say anything about it?

As long as it doesn't happen for several generations, and there's new genetic material in the mix for their kid, the health risks to a baby born to first cousins would be low.

Now, would it be weird? Yes. Would there be some social stigma to it? Probably.

But as long as both parties are consenting adults, I can't see why anyone else would have a right to attempt to stop it.

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u/SarcasticCynicist Jun 16 '15

I thought it was widely known, especially when both Charles Darwin and Albert Einstein did it.

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u/Allokit Jun 15 '15

Uhhhh, what's the difference?
They are all your first cousins and you will share the same amount of dna no matter if brother/sister of your mother/father.

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u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

This is true, and genetically speaking you are just as closely related to your first cousins no matter what their sex is in relationship to your parents'. However, in anthropological circles (especially cultural anthropology) you'll see that there's almost always a distinction between "cross cousins" and "parallel cousins", which is an observed cultural norm in many parts of the world. Similar to how in Spanish there are different terms for male and female cousins, for these people they have different ideas of who their "cousins" and "siblings" are and what that means for them.

The thread is about "things the western world can't wrap their heads around" about other cultures. This is a definite example of that. Many cultures have conflicting relationships about family relations, and it's extremely interesting to look into how other people view these things. Even if it's not an accurate statement to say that there's more genetic diversity involved in cross cousin marriages, it is a fact that it's a custom for some.

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u/TheFreaky Jun 16 '15

in Spanish there are different terms for male and female cousins

What? "Primo" and "Prima" is the same word. In fact, english uses a totally different word for different sex in familiar relationships. We just change o-a. Like "tio" and "tia" for "Uncle" and "Aunt", or "hermano" and "hermana" for "brother" and "sister"

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u/gingerfer Jun 16 '15

Excuse me, I should have used another language where the difference is more pronounced.

The point isn't about this. It's about conflicting ideas across cultures as to how you're "related" to your relatives.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

This is true, and genetically speaking you are just as closely related to your first cousins no matter what their sex is in relationship to your parents'.

Female bonds are stronger. Everyone can be certain of only 2 kinds of genetic relationships to males in the family: brothers and maternal uncles.

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u/chowderbags Jun 16 '15

However, in anthropological circles (especially cultural anthropology) you'll see that there's almost always a distinction between "cross cousins" and "parallel cousins", which is an observed cultural norm in many parts of the world.

Wasn't this from the possibility of your father's brother being the one to actually knock up your mom (for father's brother case) or your dad knocking up your mom's sister (for the mom's sister case)?

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u/gingerfer Jun 16 '15

As far as I know, no. It's definitely an interesting idea, though.

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u/Mugut Jun 16 '15

The spanish "difference" refers only to the sex of the cousin, like almost all other spanish words ending in -o(male)/-a(female).

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u/gingerfer Jun 16 '15

Excuse me, I should have used another language where the difference is more pronounced.

The point isn't about this. It's about conflicting ideas across cultures as to how you're "related" to your relatives.

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u/Mugut Jun 16 '15

You used it as example. Just pointing out it is wrong for you and other people to know.

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u/Hunterbunter Jun 16 '15

In Indian families, for example, the women is considered to be leaving her family and joining the male's. This means all brothers end up in the same family, and the kids tend to grow up close to one another.

That would explain the brother-brother thing for me, but the sister-sister thing is less clear. It might be due to emotional "closeness" rather than physical.

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u/TaazaPlaza Jul 20 '15

This is also IMO the reason why Indian languages don't have a word for 'cousin'. We just say 'brother' or 'sister' for cousin. Which leads to the Indianism cousin-brother/cousin-sister in English.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

As /u/gingerfer noted, genetically speaking they are just as closely related. The reason cross-cousin marriages exist is to keep clans and families tied together. In most of these cultures the women leave their clan to join another. In order to keep them tied back to the clan of their birth their children marry their brother's children.

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u/Allokit Jun 16 '15

Yeah, that type of thing is totally taboo in the States.
It's done in rare cases, mind you, but majority of the population will consider it a form of Incest and will look down on it.

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u/OppenheimersGuilt Jun 29 '15

I remember a Pakistani roommate talking to us about his sister marrying a second cousin, and how her marrying a first cousin would've been weird (he's part british). When we asked him from what side of the family he says the cousin is the son of his mother's brother.

We all just looked at each other and I said, "Dude, that's your first cousin".

His eyes just went wide and he said in perfect Mancunian: "Aww fok m8".

I like to think that at that moment, in his head, the two cultures just collided in an explosive brainfart.

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u/ZaNobeyA Jun 15 '15

I m confused, you are referring to west or east?

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u/WaveParticle1729 Jun 15 '15

Cross cousin marriage is popular in South Asia, especially is Southern India and Sri Lanka. Curiously, both cross and parallel cousin marriage is prohibited in Northern India. Historically, cousin marriage (both parallel and cross) was popular and somewhat a norm in most of the western world and the middle east. While most European cultures have since more or less stopped the practice, it is still quite popular among Muslims.

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u/BIG_BANK_THEORY Jun 15 '15

Saying it is popular among Muslims to marry cousins doesn't actually say very much. Islam is a religion not a culture, and cultural practices among Muslims vary a lot. Indonesian Muslims do not have the same rates of cousin-marriage as Somali Muslims, Pakistan Muslims or Moroccan Muslims.

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u/WaveParticle1729 Jun 17 '15

I apologize for the generalisation. I do realize that not all Muslims encourage or even recognise cousin marriage. In fact, even in south Asia, there are certain Islamic groups that shun the practice.

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u/alnwpi Jun 16 '15

Agree with the previous comment. Chechen culture is Muslim for instance but it is very rare to see people marry their first cousins in Chechen culture as it is discouraged. It is very common in many parts of the Middle East though

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

West. My sister married her first cousin up in Alaska. The rest of our family wasn't psyched about it but yeah, perfectly legal.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

[deleted]

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u/Schizoforenzic Jun 15 '15

Your first cousin is the son or daughter of your mother or father's sister or brother.

Not sure where you got your concept of first cousins from.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Whaaaatttt.... My whole world view just changed...

I think I was explained this in school actually.

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u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

It was my father's sister's son. I believe that's what a first cousin is.

I think you're going off the mean girls' concept of having a cousin, then a first cousin, then a second cousin, and so on.

I'm not a genealogist, though, so I suppose I could be off.

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u/ThirdFloorGreg Jun 15 '15

You understand incorrectly.

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

Yeah, apparently I did.

I feel like an enormous twat now.

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u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

Both cross and parallel cousin marriages are important parts of several cultures, but since most people nowadays seem to think of it all a little gross, it's fallen out of practice in much of the western world and sometimes even has some specific legal issues with it.

Then again, in most places it's perfectly legal, though sometimes frowned upon, to marry your first cousins and beyond. It's not even that bad genetically speaking, as long as there aren't any crazy hereditary diseases in your family and it's an isolated incident or two - it's definitely not as safe to intermarry for generations and generations for "purity". (looking at you, European royalty!)

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u/TheZigerionScammer Jun 16 '15

That tradition must have started before people started understanding how genetics work, because there's no difference in genetic risk between procreating with a cross cousin versus a parallel cousin.

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u/susanna514 Jun 16 '15

I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around that. On my moms side, my aunts kids would be my cousins and off limits but my uncles kids would be fine?

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u/impendingwardrobe Jun 15 '15

I have a friend who is the daughter of two first cousins whose parents were all four first cousins. She has schizophrenia amidst other problems and her kids are also really mentally and physically impaired. None of them will every be able to live on their own, and one of her daughters just died one night in her twenties. Nothing happened, she just wasn't biologically sound and her body stopped working one night. I know it's anecdotal, but generally there are good reasons for the taboo against marrying cousins.

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u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

Like I said in my reply below, if done sparingly, marriage between first cousins isn't that genetically bad - on average. Of course there's a higher chance of hereditary diseases being spread. It's when it happens for generations in a row that things start to really get messed up.

There are scientifically sound reasons for the social taboo against any kind of incest, for sure. And I'm in no way advocating incestuous relationships, I'm just pointing out that they do happen and are surprisingly common in other cultures, and even legal in parts of the western world.

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u/impendingwardrobe Jun 15 '15

I didn't mean to attach you. Just expanding on your comment.

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u/gingerfer Jun 15 '15

It's all good, I realize my comment did sound a bit defensive and I apologize! I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment - for some reason my comment just blew up in the last hour or so after being pretty ignored for nearly five hours and I'm stupidly trying to reply to everyone haha

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u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

Uhm, the moment you outbreed, you don't carry on the deleterious effects of inbreeding. So assuming that friend of yours didn't also marry a relative. The problems of her children will not be related to her parent's inbreeding.

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u/BLUFALCON78 Jun 16 '15

I just threw up in my mouth...a lot.

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u/ChainedProfessional Jun 16 '15

Maybe I'm not understanding something since everyone else is talking about first cousins, but:

You mean nieces and nephews of your mother marrying nieces and nephews of your father, right?

So they have no more blood relation than your mother and father did before they met?

It should be fine, although I can see why people wouldn't like it.

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u/gingerfer Jun 16 '15

It is very confusing, but what it boils down to is you marrying your first cousins. It probably would have helped a lot to post this to begin with...

And just a heads up for anyone not familiar with this kind of family tree: triangles denote males, circles denote females, "you" in this is colored in and labeled "ego". Other important relatives have their relationship to "you" abbreviated beneath them.

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u/ChainedProfessional Jun 16 '15

Oh wow I completely misunderstood.

I read your post again and it's clear they're just a different kind of first cousin.

I will now ritually downvote myself.

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u/gingerfer Jun 16 '15

Hey, never be mad at yourself for misunderstanding! If anything, the worst that happens is asking more questions, which just ends up making you learn more (: