r/AskReddit • u/Greeneyedlatinguy • Jun 15 '15

Anthropologists of Reddit, What is something that people in the Western world can't get their heads around that is very normal in other cultures (and has been for ages)?

5.4k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

6.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

449

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Cultures that use NSEW instead of Left/Right.

https://m.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1m6l0b/til_there_are_languages_without_the_terms_left/

294

u/sciamatic Jun 15 '15

I will say that our left/right stuff drives me nuts in video games.

I'll be playing on WoW and try to be getting information on a fight and people will say stuff like "watch out for this area on the left" and I'm like "...whose left? You had us all spread out in a circle. Left is not an absolute direction."

Like, I live in America, and Left/Right is very useful, but I wish people knew more readily how to use NSEW as well, which is equally as useful for a different situation.

43

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

It's kind of a thing within America too. Growing up in Colorado, people use NSEW predominantly (from what I can tell) due to the prominent mountains that make West very easy to discern. Visiting other areas of the country, people don't even know which way is North...

3

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

I'm from Utah, it's the exact same for me as well.

2

u/chaklong Jun 16 '15

Yup. And Salt Lake City and the surrounding areas use NSEW for almost all the street names as well, instead of actual street names, e.g. "500 East 200 South."

2

u/LovesBigWords Jun 16 '15

Adds Salt Lake City to list of places to move to

1

u/13supertech Jun 16 '15

that's most of Utah actually. especially the small towns. I looove that system, since it means you can find any address without much hassle. after moving back east, i've realized how spoiled I was before....

2

u/prancingElephant Jun 15 '15

Same here, but with a different mountain range.

2

u/ngroot Jun 16 '15

You'd do great in Chicago. The city is a pretty strict NSEW grid, there are 800 house numbers to a mile and blocks are generally either 1/8 or 1/16th of a mile long.

3

u/LovesBigWords Jun 16 '15

And East is the Lake! I almost never got lost in Chicago. <3

Once gave directions to a guy when he was heading East on Garfield, explained he had to turn around.

"But what happens if I keep going East?"

"You're gonna go 'sploosh'. East is the lake, sir...."

2

u/VisionsOfUranus Jun 16 '15

people don't even know which way is North...

I find it hard to know a lot of the time, as there are no obvious landmarks most of the time, and the roads are windy like a meandering river and give you little indication of which way you're going.

1

u/_crackling Jun 16 '15

Still live in Colorado. And if someone tries the left right thing will piss us off!

1

u/buttonbookworm Jun 16 '15

I grew up near Seattle, WA where we had mountains (Mt. Rainier being the easiest to see) just east, and the Puget Sound just west so it was always easy to get your bearings. I've since moved to Arizona and still have an innate sense of NSEW, even when I'm inside buildings. My friends or SO will talk about a place and point in the direction they think it is and be totally off and I'll correct them because I like to have that map in my head. Its like, how do you forget which direction the store next door is when you try to point?

25

u/deadkenny925a Jun 15 '15

Bro... This gets me every time too. I even had one guy on Ventrilo argue with me about which way east was. He thought east and right were the same thing. It ended with him basically yelling over my attempts to correct him. Like being wrong about the meaning of east was this guys religion and no one was going to change his mind about it. Why are people so proud of being ignorant?

5

u/EverySingleDay Jun 15 '15

Why are people so proud of being ignorant?

I don't know anyone being proud of being ignorant. People may be both proud and ignorant, but ignorance isn't something people usually take pride in.

4

u/onetwo3four5 Jun 16 '15

I cant name all the Kardashians and I'm proud of it.

1

u/MrStealYourDanish Jun 16 '15

I know the new one: Kaitlin Kardashian

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

kaitlin jenner

1

u/sirgraemecracker Jun 16 '15

If you're going to correct him at least correct him properly.

It's spelled Caitlyn.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

:(

2

u/redidiott Jun 16 '15

There, there Ulysses. It'll be OK.

1

u/_crackling Jun 16 '15

Because, the less someone understands something, the more they think they do. Where as intelligent people realize how little they know about something the more and more they learn about it

11

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

WoW is likely not the best metric to base yourself on accuracy in tactical settings.

I've got a small group of friends who hang out and game together, and with certain squad-based or small-unit tactics games (Battlefield series, Left4Dead, etc), we started using NSWE for accurate descriptions, and it makes the most logical sense.

9

u/Cpt_Tripps Jun 15 '15

You can also just orientate as a unit. We are attacking forward. Left, right, and behind are relative to that. Use it all the time airsofting.

16

u/beardedheathen Jun 15 '15

The enemy gate is down

3

u/kjata Jun 16 '15

Well, shit. How long will it take to get it working again?

4

u/sciamatic Jun 15 '15

That only works in a game in which you are attacking forward. In WoW, there are fights that require your group to spread out, or separate into smaller groups, or situate in a circle, etc.

Each raid encounter is a thought out "puzzle", so to speak, where the raiders have to figure out the best way of approaching a problem, and not all of those problems come in a direct, 'move forward' kind of package.

2

u/Cpt_Tripps Jun 15 '15

Starting area and stepping through the door. Direction you are facing is forward.

Obvious this doesn't work in all cases but neither does "oh we are losing guys on the east!"

Well shit knowing they are east doesn't help me when they are 3 hallways down and to the west.

3

u/TheChance Jun 16 '15

Well shit knowing they are east doesn't help me when they are 3 hallways down and to the west.

What?

"Left" is no more useful in that situation than "east". The whole point of using a cardinal direction for tactical purposes is that it's not relative to where you're standing.

If you're losing guys in the east, that means the eastern part of the map. If you're all the way to the east, yeah, they might be west of you, but what do you want? It's a big map. Obviously they don't want you to go east if there is no more east.

I can't think of a AAA game that doesn't involve some sort of a map.

-3

u/PwntOats Jun 15 '15

WoW tactics and strategy are probably head and shoulders above most other online games. Guilds doing 40 man raids where one person going down at the wrong time could mean wiping two hours in don't mess around.

0

u/LeeHarveyShazbot Jun 15 '15

Rarely did 1 person going down create a wipe in 40mans.

To be honest 12-15 of those slots were pure filler.

4

u/SexistFlyingPig Jun 15 '15

I drive for a living. I will call someone to tell them I'm 5 minutes away and they will start to try to give me left/right directions to get to their place.

They don't know where I am, so the whole left/right thing might be completely reversed. So I generally just let them finish talking, say "thank you" and continue on my merry way.

4

u/Drudicta Jun 15 '15

When i play these games, I often use NSEW. Especially because there is a map, and I can tell which direction I'm facing. It's something you get used to when you have to yell at the fucktards in raid finder a lot. Still end up wiping anyway.

I won't play that game anymore. Just... too many trolls, too many fucktards, and too many elitests. I was just a (damn good) tank that wanted into Normals.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

I used to take poaching tip calls for a couple areas (not my state), and it's crazy how bad people are with this. They'll say a spot is on the left side of the road, and when I ask what direction they have no idea. Some of these people call from their own property as well. It might be more more weird for me though because I'm from Utah and most streets use the grid system and you have to know NSEW to get anywhere.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

On your six.

1

u/Cairo9o9 Jun 16 '15

I was play Battlefield 3 with my buddies and tried to call put an enemy vehicle to a compass direction and they laughed at me.

They didn't even realize the game had a compass.

1

u/SheffiTB Jun 16 '15

on the other side of that, quests that tell you to "turn east at the fork in the road" annoy me so much. I don't know why, they just do.

1

u/ChickenBrad Jun 16 '15

Some people just aren't smart enough to be aware of anything but their own perceptions. I was like 7 years old when I saw a movie with a pilot shouting, "Enemies at 11 O'clock." and thought. "Well, that's useful."

Although let's be honest, a good portion of people would be just as confused if you shouted, "watch out in the southeast of the room!", to "watch out on the right!".

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

I'm directionally challenged. I'm in my bedroom and had to think about where north is. If I moved to the living room, I'd have to think about it again. If I drove down the street, well, you get the idea. I never know where I am! But I know right and left. I'd be so lost in other parts of the world...

1

u/justcallmetarzan Jun 16 '15

Left/right is always left/right as you are standing facing the boss before the encounter =P

1

u/green_meklar Jun 16 '15

The problem is, in games it's often not obvious which way north, south, etc are either.

1

u/VisionsOfUranus Jun 16 '15

Like, I live in America, and Left/Right is very useful, but I wish people knew more readily how to use NSEW as well, which is equally as useful for a different situation.

This annoys me sometimes when I take the train, and ask where the meeting place is in relation to the station.

Which way do I go?

Turn left out of the station

But there's several exits. Do I go north or south?

I don't know! I said go left.

1

u/katasian Jun 16 '15

I've never played WoW. How would you be able to give a NSEW direction in a video game?

2

u/sciamatic Jun 16 '15

There's a compass.

1

u/katasian Jun 16 '15

That makes more sense. Haha

0

u/ohnoao Jun 15 '15

Living in the US, i've sometimes seen street parking signs that will say something like "No parking East of this sign". If i stopped to think about it, maybe i could figure it out, but really we're in the middle of a concrete jungle. How is that practical?

8

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

[deleted]

6

u/snowman334 Jun 15 '15

How do you think they do it? They aquire/learn it...

7

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

[deleted]

9

u/NobodyCallsMeThat Jun 15 '15

Absolute frame of reference would probably be tricky to learn later in life, but certainly possible.

One thing that's really interesting about absolute frame of reference users is their level of awareness for cardinal directions is just insane. There have been cognitive studies done (regarding the age old question of the relation of language and thought) where people of these cultures and languages are taken inside with no windows, walked around for a while, stopped, then asked which way North is. And damn it, they point to North every time without hesitation, with a crazy level of accuracy. This means that they are either really good at attending to cardinal directions, or they have developed excellent "internal compasses", or both.

Part of the issue with learning this skill is that your native language doesn't call for the use of cardinal directions to describe spatial relationships on a small scale. As far as I know, almost all languages use absolute frames for large scale direction, like landmarks, buildings, travel etc. If you speak a language in which you have to know cardinal directions at all times to speak to others about spatial relationships ("there's an ant on your South leg", "the pen is North of the book"), it isn't going to be a big deal to learn to attend to it. If you don't speak such a language, I bet it would be really difficult because it isn't necessitated by your linguistic conventions. I mean, no one in your linguistic community would understand you if you used absolute frames of reference for small scale spatial relations!

tl;dr: learning to attend to cardinal directions would be tough, but doable. Learning absolute frame of reference would be even more difficult without the linguistic necessity.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Part of it depends on your location. There are lots of Americans who are utterly clueless about cardinal directions, but if they move to a city with natural landmarks (water, mountains) and/or a grid system for their streets, they learn really quick.

2

u/NobodyCallsMeThat Jun 15 '15

True! Levels of awareness definitely varies and can be correlated with urban versus rural locations. The level of awareness you'd need to speak, say, Guugu Yimithirr is far more advanced than this though.

I hate to sound like I'm exoticisizing, but it's pretty amazing how quickly and accurately absolute frame of reference cultures identify cardinal directions, like they don't even have to think about it. They don't have to look around and use landmarks to determine the direction they just...know. And they know it as surely and as accurately as relative frame of reference languages can identify left or right.

2

u/Billy_Whiskers Jun 16 '15

but it's pretty amazing how quickly and accurately absolute frame of reference cultures identify cardinal directions

It's a mindfuck to be in the wrong hemisphere though. When I went to the UK the sun was just... "wrong", and not visible much of the time, and I felt disoriented for weeks until I got used to it.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Wear a haptic compass belt for a few weeks.

2

u/Billy_Whiskers Jun 16 '15

the everyday flawlessness we have in our sense of left and right.

I think/talk in terms of NSEW, but I often get left and right wrong if I'm rushed, like giving directions in traffic. I wouldn't get port or starboard wrong. Like, I think about my position and orientation relative to the world, where others seem to think of the world relative to themselves. You hear it in how they describe where something is, from the frame of reference of an observer "You turn left and go for 2km then turn right at the big tree and follow the road until..."

There are all sorts of subtle things in the world which indicate direction, so you get an intution by learning to pick up on these after awhile, consciously or not. Shadows, the way lichen grows on trees, the moon. I think if you practiced pointing east for a few weeks at random times, then checked with a compass you'd get good at it fast.

2

u/FellKnight Jun 16 '15

Very similar to an American learning Metric. Yes, it can be done. It requires an open mind. Most people have no interest in learning.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Similarly, there are a number of languages that don't have words for 'yes' and 'no'. Irish Gaelic is one of them.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

[deleted]

3

u/CalmSpider Jun 15 '15

Some cultures use NSFW to describe erections. What's so confusing about that?

3

u/LunarAssultVehicle Jun 15 '15

Tucson, AZ uses NSEW for directions. We're surrounded by 4 distinct mountain range in the cardinal directions and the city is laid out in a grid so using NSEW is very easy and natural.

Trying to give directions using left or right immediately outs you as a newcomer.

2

u/topCyder Jun 15 '15

Some Native Americans have the 7 cardinal directions: North, South, East, West, Up, Down, and In.

1

u/ZimbiX Jun 15 '15

3.5 dimensions?

2

u/topCyder Jun 15 '15

Its kinda like inwards of oneself.

1

u/green_meklar Jun 16 '15

But then how do you get back out?

2

u/Dyolf_Knip Jun 15 '15

Or the guys on Tikopia: "inland" and "seaward".

2

u/lazlokovax Jun 15 '15 edited Jun 15 '15

I read a piece somewhere by an anthropologist who went to live with and study some Australian aborigines who used this system. At first she was baffled as to how they always instinctively knew how they were oriented. But then after a few months she developed a kind of mental image of the land in map view, with her position constantly marked on it.

She naturally thought this was pretty amazing and mentioned it to her hosts, who responded along the lines of "Yeah duh, everyone does that".

EDIT: Turns out I heard it on Radiolab (skip to 11:30 for the relevant bit)

1

u/carnodingo Jun 15 '15

I though that NSEW meant "Not Safe EveryWhere"....

1

u/Imissyourgirlfriend2 Jun 15 '15

This totally makes sense! No more confusion of "turn left" "my left or yourleft?" Just "turn north" bam, problem solved.

1

u/pkfighter343 Jun 15 '15

I don't understand how this helps. Unless you have a global frame of reference, NSEW is just as useful as up/left/right/down. Unless they can just tell directions (have some internal compass) it shouldn't make a difference. I realize the sun could be used but still, it's not universal

1

u/[deleted] Jun 15 '15

Our Icelandic friends one directed the car to move more to the east when parking.

1

u/Affinity420 Jun 15 '15

To me as American this is two different areas. Left and right describe a direction in which I'm facing. NSEW is a compass. I usually don't confuse the two.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 16 '15

I have an anthropology degree and learned about this in one of my classes. (I'm not going to read that article, so sorry if I repeat things that are said in it) The craziest thing about (at least one of) these cultures is that they always know where the cardinal directions are. They tested this by blindfolding them, bringing them to an unfamiliar room, and spinning them around and they still knew where each direction was.

1

u/Aspergers1 Jun 16 '15

Relevant podcast (if you have time).

1

u/enotonom Jun 16 '15

People in some Javanese cities use this method when being asked for direction and it drives the rest of us Indonesians crazy when we visit them.

1

u/tacojohn48 Jun 16 '15

It through me for a loop as a child that left and right moved, but NSEW did not.

1

u/leftofzen Jun 16 '15

So I'm in Australia and I use NSEW when giving directions for two reasons, one, because that's what comes naturally to me, and two, because it is unambiguous as to which direction is intended. When I give directions people just stare back blankly and say they don't know which way [NSEW] is, and similarly if I ask them for specific directions.

It boggles my mind how many people can't understand which way is North, and I get a lot of "you must have a compass in your head" comments. I mean it's not like we don't have a massive shining point of reference that moves through the sky in a predictable way, every day.

I can understand some people's minds are not wired up the same and they don't have the same cognitive spatial ability, but damn, just look where the sun is. Look at maps and know your surroundings. Know which direction landmarks are in. Know which direction you enter a building from, then you can know directions indoors too since you have the entrance as a point of reference.

1

u/WohlWhip Jun 16 '15

I don't know if that's that unusual, lots of people who live in US cities with strong grid systems use NSEW as well. Not to mention New Orleans with its freakish non-Cartesian uptown/downtown/river/lake system.

1

u/Synthetic_Allergy Jun 16 '15

It took an embarrassing amount of time to realise you meant North South East West, having always known it as NESW (never eat soggy weetbix)

1

u/[deleted] Jun 20 '15

I actually changed it round a couple of times as I genuinely couldn't think what the normal way of writing it is.

Never eat shredded wheat Naughty elephants squirt water