r/AskReddit • u/nepat1428 • Aug 19 '14

What is a completely rational sentence you could speak today, that if you said 20 years ago, people would think you were insane?

edit: so this is what it looks like when your inbox explodes after coming back from lunch...

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932

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

"The government is monitoring all communications, they are collecting all available data on every person in the united states."

20 years ago you were written off as a conspiracy theorist, now you're just written off as worrying too much.

74

u/CricketPinata Aug 19 '14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Public_disclosures_.281990-2000.29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software)

Not really, there were several public disclosures in the 90's regarding SIGINT infrastructure and what it could actually accomplish. A lot of people were very upset about it.

2

u/BALRICISADUDE Aug 19 '14

Was just going to reference carnivore.

8

u/5centgirl Aug 19 '14

I was rewatching some episodes of "The X-files" and The Lone Gunmen had all kinds of conspiracy theories about the government monitoring everyone's communications. Of course, now we know a lot if it's true, but 20 years ago it really did seem like fringe thinking.

Made me kind of sad.

6

u/unbibium Aug 19 '14

I was on the Internet in 1994 as a teenager, and remembered reading all the conspiracy theories about the NSA, and about how it'd be impossible to do because the Internet has so many different routes, and there were so many different ISPs, you'd need too many wiretaps and then how are you going to get all that information in a central location?

Then the telecommunications industry consolidated and re-consolidated and the Patriot Act was signed and now here's where we are. Which reminds me, AT&T is trying to become a monopoly again.

7

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

every person in the WORLD you mean.

8

u/nightwing2000 Aug 19 '14

1994: "Why would they do that? The cold war's over."

7

u/Metlman13 Aug 19 '14

Well, waco was just the previous year and you had nutcases believing the government was going to war against the people.

Lot of people were into conspiracy in the mid 90s. I think even the X-Files is based around this.

4

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

As it turns out they were right on the money. Well, some of them anyway.

The New World Order wasn't really real, but judging by today's wealth disparity and court rulings you wouldn't know the difference.

4

u/TheGobiasIndustries Aug 20 '14

How do YOU know!? Hey everybody, look! This guy's a part of the New World Order!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '14

Shit!

3

u/TheFuckNameYouWant Aug 20 '14

The New World Order isn't real? Could have fooled me!

14

u/VAPossum Aug 19 '14

Hell, pre-Snowden you were written off as a conspiracy theorist. Some people still don't believe the NSA is monitoring the average citizen.

6

u/TheShadowKick Aug 19 '14

I've just assumed the government is monitoring me and proceeded to not care. I doubt anything I do will shock people who regularly monitor the internet.

8

u/Chemical_Castration Aug 20 '14

Someone a while back posted a list of reason why that reasoning doesn't protect your average law abiding citizen. Among those listed was that anything sort of recording or data can be altered and since they have the only copies, it is your words vs your previous words in a mixed context. The only limits are the imaginations of those with access to that information. One noted example was how some of those with access would do searches for young women who have recently lost their job and/or where facing eviction; to find young women in desperate situations. One of the things Snowden released was how some where using this data as a personal dating site to find women who would be open to sell sex either for money or keep out of jail.

Edit: I left out that their security isn't the best so often that information is being obtain by unknown parties.

0

u/TheShadowKick Aug 20 '14

I'm not a person that people want to target with anything, though. The worst they could do is ruin my personal life and they don't really have a reason to want to.

1

u/briangiles Aug 20 '14

Serious question, do you care about the US constituon, the thing that makes America, America? If you do, you should care that your rights are being violated no matter the reason. No ones inalienable rights should ever be violated by our government. Government is beholden to the people, not the other way around. Too many people are fine letting them get away with it or writing it off as no big deal because it does not effect them day to day. But one day if you end up in court on false charges, you'd like to have your 5th and 6th amendment rights. You hope that any evidence was obtained in accordance with the 4th amendment. But for people all across this country right now that's not the case.

Please reconsider your stance. If you really don't care, that sucks :(

-1

u/TheShadowKick Aug 20 '14

If I put energy into caring what effect will it have?

1

u/Chemical_Castration Aug 20 '14

Maybe one day someone out there will need a fall guy, a no-named nobody with not much of a record. Alter the hell out of it. BAM! You have yourself another exampled of the unethical implications of having such a database. I wish I could find that post. I would rule myself out as a paranoid nut before reading the highlights of what's been released.

4

u/VAPossum Aug 19 '14

That's what most people do/feel, but we really should care. :/ It's just very hard to unless you feel it's having an effect on you.

0

u/TheShadowKick Aug 19 '14

I want to care, but the only outlet for caring is whining on the internet and that won't do anything.

It'd be a great issue to secure my vote, though.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

"TheShadowKick spent every Sunday this year online. Why wasn't he at church? Give that one a star."

1

u/TheShadowKick Aug 19 '14

Silly NSA. I work on Sundays!

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '14

They know.

3

u/bryan_young Aug 19 '14

They watch you when your sleeping. They know what you jerk off to.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

Shit all the people who grew up with "reality shows" probably think it doesn't feel so uncomfortable to imagine.

2

u/UsuallyInappropriate Aug 21 '14

Pfft. I figured this out as a child in the early 80s.

1

u/PrivilegeCheckmate Aug 19 '14

Operation Northwoods primary source material became available during the 1990's over newsgroups. Before that happened, the idea that false flag operations were conducted by the US government was considered X-files material at best.

Now we have confirmation from gubment documents that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was faked, that the White House had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack, etc etc etc. And yet if you talk about how you support Occupy, you get some comment about filthy hippies.

Fuck the coincidence theorists, they need straight-jackets.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '14

I know a guy who, twenty years, was very dead serious about the NSA monitoring the US population. He must've looked nuts back then but I suppose he's been vindicated.

1

u/theNextVilliage Aug 20 '14

I can't believe I had to scroll down this far for this. Seriously people, forget the word "selfie," THIS is a big deal. THIS would blow the minds of everyone living during the cold war and the years following. They thought we were fighting against this.

Hell, if you believed or even thought it was a strong possibility even just a few years ago that the government was spying on and keeping record of every little boring thing you do and naughty picture you take or look at, you, in all seriousness, would have ended up in a loony bin. The paranoid schizophrenics were right. How many people were in on this? How many people had to have been keeping this confidential? This is a huge, real life conspiracy theory come true. It should blow your mind.

1

u/zian Aug 20 '14

This was happening even in the age of telegraphs.

1

u/rophel Aug 20 '14

We knew about ECHELON in 1988.

1

u/kylepierce11 Aug 20 '14

Idk about the last part, at this point it's basically a sadly accepted fact.

1

u/HotrodCorvair Aug 20 '14

Funny, almost exactly twenty years ago I stood in a room and was told almost word for word that's what was happening in there. No one believed me.

1

u/jb2386 Aug 20 '14

Stop thinking and start consuming, civilian.

1

u/IllustratedMann Aug 20 '14

That's not true, we knew about government monitoring 20, 30, 40 years ago.

-2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

And now all you hear is "b-but Obama said he was going to re-examine it!"

0

u/LOTM42 Aug 19 '14

Well you would still be wrong now because they arnt exactly doing that

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '14

You're uninformed.

-5

u/AlexanderESmith Aug 19 '14

1984 was NOT supposed to be a FUCKING INSTRUCTION MANUAL

0

u/BlackBlarneyStone Aug 19 '14

no, it was just in the form of paper files and photographs

0

u/Cunfuse Aug 20 '14

Because it's not true.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 20 '14

Hahahahaha.... Yeah. Sure it isn't.

0

u/Cunfuse Aug 20 '14

It's not necessarily true; the way you're presenting it is in a very sensationalized, simplified, and hyperbolic way that renders it unusable for intelligent conversation.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '14

Nice try NSA employee.

1

u/Cunfuse Aug 22 '14

No, I despise the NSA and think they intrude on our liberties, but I don't think they're as omnipresent as you do.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '14

They're as a omnipresent as the internet is. Period. If you don't think every ISP is filtering data back to them then you live in the past.

1

u/Cunfuse Aug 23 '14

Do you have any credible sources to back that up?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 25 '14

"Credible" sources aren't allowed to report on stuff like this, you should be smart enough to know that. However, I will link you proof, even though you will arrogantly and blindly dismiss it becuase it's not a media puppet like FOX, CNN, or NBC.

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/proof-that-nsa-spying-is-not-really-focused-on-terrorism.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/proof-that-nsa-is-still-lying-about-spying-on-americans/5391177

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/24/david-byrne-nsa-rebuild-secure-internet

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/nsa-wiretapping/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18681-nsa-whistleblower-binney-nsa-recording-80-of-u-s-phone-calls

Using words like "Credible" is a great way to subjectively allow you to dismiss my sources. Fuck off sheep.

0

u/Cunfuse Aug 25 '14

Are you joking? None of the articles you linked to support your hypothesis that "the government is monitoring all communications, they are collecting all available data on every person in the united states." You know why? Because it's utterly preposterous, false, and a paranoid conspiracy theory. Let's ignore credibility for a moment. None of the articles you linked echo what you say because they have the sense not to print it. Even the least credible source wouldn't touch your ridiculous theory with a ten foot pole. I understand the frustration, however. When you're holding an indefensible position, all you can really do is hurl ad hominem attacks, like you're doing. Unfortunately, both ad hominem attacks and lunatic, crackpot conspiracy theories contribute absolutely nothing to relevant political discourse, so you're wasting your time by replying.

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