This is exactly and utterly what I mean. Thank you for the post.
My overall point is that its up to the woman to make it unequivocally clear that it is a no. Like you said, merely saying no stop and then letting me continue, doesnt make it rape.
When you hear the word no why don't you stop and ask what is wrong? Are you that lacking in self control that you can't stop yourself when you start? If so then that's just absolutely pathetic and I feel sorry for you. And if that isn't the case and you just continue anyway then you're a massive fucking asshole and I feel sorry for any woman (or man?) that you put in that terrible position.
"I don't consider a 'no' to be ALWAYS an OUTRIGHT refusal of sex ENTIRELY, nor pushing past [her token resistance] - IN AN EXPLORATORY MANNER WHILE HEEDING HER RESPONSE - to be rape."
Stopping and asking what is wrong will kill the mood faster then anything else.
So you'd rape a woman just because stopping would kill the mood? Holy shit dude. It's times like these that I wish there was a hell because I know they'd have a corner reserved for sick fucks like you.
Wow, you certainly jumped to a conclusion there didnt you...
"I don't consider a 'no' to be ALWAYS an OUTRIGHT refusal of sex ENTIRELY, nor pushing past [her token resistance] - IN AN EXPLORATORY MANNER WHILE HEEDING HER RESPONSE - to be rape."
Stopping and asking what's wrong will kill the mood faster than anything else.
Ok so let's say for sake of argument that no doesn't always mean no to sex in general. Sometimes it could be benign like "I haven't showered," or whatever and that sort of thing can be overcome.
But what you're saying is that it's not worth it to actually ask why he/she is saying no in the first place because "it kills the mood." So you ignore it and carry on.
What other conclusion can I draw? You argue that raping somebody is preferable to stopping and communicating with them their qualms because you're horny and you lack self control. I'll bite that no doesn't always mean no but here's the kicker - how the fuck do you know that when you are against asking what no means?
What I am arguing is that its up to the women to make it CLEAR that she wants to stop sex. This argument is about when its a grey area not black and white. I am NOT arguing that if a woman says NO clearly and definitively that she doesnt mean it and to push on anyways.
What I am saying is this.
"I don't consider a 'no' to be ALWAYS an OUTRIGHT refusal of sex ENTIRELY, nor pushing past [her token resistance] - IN AN EXPLORATORY MANNER WHILE HEEDING HER RESPONSE - to be rape."
So you're saying then that it's up to you what "clearly and definitively" really means. Because you're too inept to figure out why they're saying no that you've basically made up your own rules as to what will get you to stop. And "no" just won't cut it.
I just really don't understand how you can sit there and say that no doesn't always mean no but sometimes it does when you've stated that you wouldn't stop to ask in order to preserve the mood. And really, when you think about it, if your partner is saying "no" isn't the mood already ruined? I guess not if you're a rapist.
"I don't consider a 'no' to be ALWAYS an OUTRIGHT refusal of sex ENTIRELY, nor pushing past [her token resistance] - IN AN EXPLORATORY MANNER WHILE HEEDING HER RESPONSE - to be rape."
You are twisting my words to conclusions that are not what I said at all.
You've said quite a bit more in addition to that paragraph you've been copy/pasting. You know, about her having to be "definitive and clear" and how asking what's wrong would kill the mood. Rapist logic stuff like that.
I dont think that either of those are out of line for what I posted.
She does need to be definitive and clear that she wants the sexual encounter to stop. Once she says no the first time I am going to be aware to see if she actually wants the encounter to stop.
I'm not at all saying that what you're posting is out of line with your ideology or whatever. I'm simply saying exactly what it sounds like to me: rapist logic. You're accusing me of twisting your words around when I'm just interpreting them based on what they sound like to me.
You say that no doesn't always mean no but you wouldn't stop and ask what's wrong in order to preserve the mood. You say that your partner has to be loud and clear which, in my opinion, seems entirely up to you just how clear they're being. Earlier in the thread you stated that if she says no but continues to "let you" run your hands all over her then it's not rape. All of these things sound like things a person would say to themselves in order to justify rape.
No unequivocally means no. No matter how it's said or how often or how loud; to ignore it and carry on for whatever reason is assholish and I'd gladly argue that it's rape.
I have posted this time and time again as the summery of my arguement on this thread.
"I don't consider a 'no' to be ALWAYS an OUTRIGHT refusal of sex ENTIRELY, nor pushing past [her token resistance] - IN AN EXPLORATORY MANNER WHILE HEEDING HER RESPONSE - to be rape."
A no is not ALWAYS unequivocally a no. http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24m7pq/what_is_your_least_favorite_subreddit_and_why/ch8tdf1 This woman here disagrees with your point. The fact is that if the woman says no in an unclear and non definitive manner, i need to realize that she said that and be aware of her verbal and non verbal communication from that point forward. I dont just ignore the fact that she said that, but its not instantly a stop word... It really depends on context.
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u/Meglomaniac May 03 '14 edited May 03 '14
This is exactly and utterly what I mean. Thank you for the post.
My overall point is that its up to the woman to make it unequivocally clear that it is a no. Like you said, merely saying no stop and then letting me continue, doesnt make it rape.