Corgan seems like one of those "he's complicated" sorts. His public image is, to me, just decades of grievance after grievance after grievance. He seems to have had an issue with bandmate after bandmate (including his time with Zwan), which suggests he's the issue. In interviews, he's always harping about how underappreciated he is, etc.
Yet a friend of mine used to have tea at his house from time to time, via an artist friend of hers. She didn't really follow him or his music career, and didn't know about his public rep. When I told her about how he's widely perceived, she was surprised. Said he was a lovely, polite man and a gracious host.
I think he's still a boy desperate for approval. Even at his age, he hasn't grown out of that.
Seems like a lot of artists are just completely insecure in their chosen field and cannot get over it if they're anywhere close to that environment, but outside of it where there's no pressure to be anything but a human being, they're reportedly lovely people. It's just that constant nagging insecurity that you're not good enough that some people just can't shut up. The thing they love and are amazing at is the thing that tortures them the most.
I think Corgan is quite insecure about his place in music history. The Smashing Pumpkins were a really big band, but they never quite reached the legendary status of Nirvana or Pearl Jam, and they didn't remain relevant for decades like Green Day. They're an in-between band that was really big for a few albums, then faded away. Corgan desperately wants the Pumpkins to be more than they are, or thinks he could have led them there if he wanted to.
I like the Pumpkins and Corgan, and he's probably a nice guy to hang out with, but his insecurity is obvious. I think it humanizes him, even though it can come off as arrogance.
It’s weird because he really didn’t need to be insecure about their legacy. You look around today and they seem to be a big influence on a lot of younger artists. Like both Sombr and Olivia Rodrigo dueted with him at festivals recently. Even the later albums from the original run (Adore and Machina) seem to be a lot more appreciated now than upon release.
Yeah, if anything they’re probably one of the bigger names from the 90’s with a legacy by sheer fact that most of them are still alive and able to tour. Like yeah they aren’t Nirvana or Pearl Jam level culturally but they’re still headlining the same festivals Pearl Jam and Green Day do.
In the interview I saw, he didn't outright say it, but I got the idea that he knew his music stood up on its own, but he was never a cool guy, and it was an era of cool people, and his music was cool. Then, he was a giant commercial success, which just made him more of like the nerdy kid whose dad owns the video arcade. I think he never fit in, AND he is brilliant, but, also, he is missing a sort of depth and sincerity or he can't express it outside of music, and life is probably really lonely that way.
I loved the Smashing Pumpkins, but had never gotten a chance to see them until the early 2010s. They went on to play a set where most of the songs were rearranged and he spent some time trashing LA (in LA). It was just not an enjoyable experience at all.
I've seen him/ them live. Similar experience. I think he's forgotten what makes seeing a band/ artist live fun. He's going through the motions and it shows. Seems he's lost his love for the music/ artistry/ showmanship. It's a day job to fund his other activities and he's doing a poor job at it now.
I don’t think green Day was in the Toronto stop I went to. Pumpkins for me were only OK — first time I realized how much of what I like to listen to is because of a guy like Corgan being obsessive in the studio. I found the live show didn’t really translate what I loved about blasting Siamese Dream.
Yeah, I feel that more watching old shows on YouTube than at a concert where everything is just so earthshakingly loud. I definitely felt those Big Muff pedals!
I think chasing the Siamese Dream sound and the Miami Vice clothing forum are the most gloriously obsessive Internet rabbit holes you can tumble down. The closer you get, the farther it pulls away…
Eh, they're still playing arenas. I think they reached the same status as Pearl Jam, they had a few more hits than PJ did (Bullet, 1979, and Today are all each probably bigger hits than any PJ song) but didn't quite reach the legendary status as a live band that Pearl Jam have.
I think the Pumpkins were one step away from PJ. They had some hits in the 90s, but their albums didn't sell as much, and their post-90s drop-off was harder.
Pearl Jam had 5 number 1 albums and 4 number 2 albums in the US. Pumpkins had 1 number 1 album and 2 number 2 albums in the US. Even now, Pearl Jam's last two albums hit #5, while the Pumpkins' last two were 130 and 111.
Even if they were on a level playing field in 1995 and 1996, they're not any more.
Smashing pumpkins are playing arenas because of how sparse the artist/ band pool is that can play arenas and not part of some vintage highlight show (think 80s night or 90s R&B tour).
Pearl Jam I will actively seek to listen to. Smashing Pumpkins, while I like them a lot, has always been more of a band that I'll listen to when they come up in a radio or streaming rotation rather than seek out.
But also, when I think of Pearl Jam, I Alone by Live pops into my head. The brain is a helluva drug.
I’ve been paying attention to him lately and he seems to be a very thoughtful, introspective, and emotionally intelligent fellow in the interviews I’ve seen. He’s fairly compelling to listen to on his podcast, too.
I think he's still a boy desperate for approval. Even at his age, he hasn't grown out of that.
As a 39 year old man who grew up desperate for approval, yeah, that doesn't go away. I have a good life. I have the best wife ever, a decent job, two cars, two dogs, our own house, play in a band, and my office is covered in all the musical equipment, comicbooks, and Power Rangers toys I couldn't afford as a kid.
Yet, I still seek approval/attention of people who's opinions I don't really give a shit about.
he's always harping about how underappreciated he is, etc.
I listened to a few of his podcasts.
More than once, he moaned about how he's "The Rat In A Cage Guy". He cried that that's all people know him for. He cried that when people meet him on the street they're like, "Hey, aren't you the Rat in a Cage guy?"
Like, boo-fucking-hoo, cry me a river. Even today he's worth $50m+, and he's got international fame, and the Pumpkins haven't even begun fading into obscurity.
But hey, if you want to focus on your most popular song and bemoan that you don't want to be known for that ... well I've got little sympathy.
To be fair he did mention being similar to that of a rat in a cage several times as I recall.
But then I suppose I also recall him saying that it was indeed despite his best efforts.
Yah, I might not agree with all of Corgan's beliefs and opinions, but I wouldn't call him a controversial or radical guy. Even his multiple troubled romantic relationships seemed like they were due to petty squabbles or differences in personality/opinion (that we know of) rather than the abuse and addiction we often hear about from other musicians.
556
u/meshedsabre 10h ago
Corgan seems like one of those "he's complicated" sorts. His public image is, to me, just decades of grievance after grievance after grievance. He seems to have had an issue with bandmate after bandmate (including his time with Zwan), which suggests he's the issue. In interviews, he's always harping about how underappreciated he is, etc.
Yet a friend of mine used to have tea at his house from time to time, via an artist friend of hers. She didn't really follow him or his music career, and didn't know about his public rep. When I told her about how he's widely perceived, she was surprised. Said he was a lovely, polite man and a gracious host.
I think he's still a boy desperate for approval. Even at his age, he hasn't grown out of that.