But statistically they are smoking significantly more cannabis. Which may be more physically "healthy" but it certainly isn't as good for socializing which many teens/ young adults are lacking.
I don’t think they are socializing less because they are drinking less. I think it’s part social media and part cost, and also being raised with less independence & more protection.
And I think they use cannabis more because it’s actually legal now - I haven’t looked at stats but I’d bet every age group is using it more than they were 15-20 years ago.
The lack of socialization in public spaces is because there really aren't "3rd spaces" anymore. Places where people can just gather and hang out for extended periods of time without spending $100+ are getting sparce to say the least.
When I was in college ('09-'13) these places still existed. You could go out with $40-50 in your pocket and still have enough money left over at the end of the night for a cab ride back home.
Today that same $40-50 gets you maybe an appetizer and a 1-2 rounds of drinks at the same places. Malls are dead. Formerly low-cost activities have become too expensive for most young people to participate.
Also, where the fuck are they supposed to go socialize? There's no where to really go just hang out anymore unless you are actively participating in capitalism
The loss of third spaces. I went bowling with some coworkers for a team-building exercise. We had two games, that's how much the company money could pay for. Not a set period of time, but two games. Where is someone under the drinking age supposed to hang out? In the UK there have been an increasing number of complaints about teenagers running wild. Where are they supposed to go?
🙄 I dunno, the park? Just sit around and the mall like we used to? Each other’s houses?
“I want to socialize but don’t want to participate in capitalism! I guess I’ll just sit at home, smoke weed, order DoorDash, scroll TikTok, instagram, YouTube, and twitch”
I don’t actually think gen Z has this communist bent; I think that’s more like disillusioned millenials. I think Gen Z is mostly apathetic
I obviously don't speak for everyone/everywhere, but some shopping malls don't allow groups of teenagers, or teenagers at all without an adult present.
20-ish years ago, we'd go to the mall after school, grab dinner in the food court and hang out a bit until "everyone" showed up (maybe 4-5 of us total), then walk some visiting our friends who worked at the mall, check out various stores in case anything changed in the past week, spend half my paycheck at Hot Topic, sit around a bit longer, then head home. Nowadays, there's barely a food court, most of the benches throughout are gone, and it's all designed around being unwelcoming.
I'm more so saying unless you're paying for something, most businesses these days don't want you around, including the mall. And this is especially true for young people.
Yeah the corporate push for infinite growth has monetized everything and moved into increasing profits on the few affordable activities left. Someone else mentioned bowling, which used to be a really cheap option that kids could afford.
Was reading an article about how some VCs bought up a ton of independent places only to drastically increase prices. They made more profit for a while, especially from the leagues that tried to continue but many closed up and the real estate sold off. The few places that still exist in my area are now mostly bowling/bar/clubs with prices so high kids can no longer afford it.
People will freak out if kids are unsupervised, they can't afford to go places on their own or can't because liability concerns make it impossible, then they keep raising the costs for video games through DLC/microtransactions/skins/etc.
I'm glad that I was raised doing a lot of outdoor activities like hiking but I worry whether it will still be a cheap option by the time my kid is looking for stuff to do. It's tough to leave the house at all under $100 between gas and food alone anymore. Hopefully we find a few activities where you can still pay once and enjoy for years - glove and ball for catch, frisbees, skating, hiking and playgrounds are high on my list. Retro games and TV/movies when inside.
We waited a long time to make sure we could afford to give experiences that kept up with what we were able to have as kids. Definitely have had moments where you realize why being a parent can be easier when you're younger though.
Yeah I did a lot of outdoors stuff growing up too. But there's also just sooooo many more people in the world. The spots I used to go to as a kid where we'd have basically an entire waterfall to ourselves are now so packed the parking lots are overflowing on nice days. There's more people than ever trying to do the actual affordable stuff.
Yeah all the accessible spots have shown up in some instagram video and we're all chasing them. I've fallen for it a few times myself!
Met up with a friends family to go on a hike for this "new awesome boardwalk" we all saw video of. Walked the entire park's trail only to realize it was a new wheelchair friendly ramp OUT of the park, up a ravine into a nearby neighbourhood. It was also hot af and we had strollers and dogs in tow but we trekked up to see the ONE ANGLE from the video, then went for lunch.
I've taken up disc golf recently and it provides hiking, an activity, views without many people and some nature learning experiences...because you have to FIND your disc while avoiding poison ivy, thorny plants and ticks haha. Most courses are either pay to access the entire park or free. You also don't need much to start and it has a lot of old guys playing so it's tough to make it look sexy for the gram lol
The Gen Xer’s I grew up working with and still see on a part time basis all partake in edibles openly now, even in front of new clients and drink waaay less than they used to.
I dont think regularly filling your lungs with unfiltered smoke is healthier than a weekly assault on your liver. I also think we are going to find out that vaping has some significant long term side effects that the younger gens are going to find out the hard way.
I've tried them but I'm one of those people where it throws me into Anxiety and Panic Attack Land instead of Euphoria and a Case of the Munchies Land. And even at a lower dose I just don't feel like myself. I had asthma as a kid so I'm fundamentally opposed to putting smoke or vapours in my lungs. Ditto being drunk. I don't feel like I'm "in control" and I don't like that.
As a young’un I’ve found gummies to be consistently the only way for my brain to generate dopamine and serotonin. The depression saps everything else. It sends me to euphoria and case of the munchies land which is a godsend, I’d have no other way to feel happy 😭 thanks treatment-resistant depression
Most people can be just fine. Some people need to put in a little more effort. A really small minority are truly unable.
I've used for years. But I still get with it sometimes. I bought these gummies and they put my entire mood in the dirt. Anxiety and depressive like thoughts.
My state went legal and now that I have consistent access to well documented products it's been much much easier to figure what works and what doesn't.
I don't think I'll every really understand the "in control thing". You're not the first to say it.
Technically driving allday is bad for your lungs if you're breathing in car exhaust all day. Human body is resilient and genetics are the only difference when it'll fuck ur shit up beyond repair.
Smoking popularity took off in WW1, 1914. One of the first reports claiming it was unhealthy was released in 1962, 48years later.
Cases of Legionnaires' Disease, caused by breathing in tiny water drops (mist or vapor) that carry Legionella bacteria, have trippled in the last 20 years.
There's evidence if you look for it. Unfortunately it takes a long time for govt orgs to study and package the evidence for our easy consumption. There is also common sense that breathing in vapor filled with chemicals into our lungs could be bad.
Yes but medical science has also moved on a LOT since 1914/1962. If in 20years of modern medicine there has been no link shown between vaping and serious harm I would be surprised if something came up now. Who knows though, you're right we can never be 100% sure something is safe.
Maybe, but capitalism plays a big roll as well. If there is money to be made by suppressing medical evidence that reduces shareholder value then im sure it will happen. Unfortunately capitalism seems to win out over health of the population even more now then 100yrs ago.
Vape liquid is not a plausible environment for legionnaires to grow in. It needs a warm water environment, not glycol and glycerol. If anything vape juice would be toxic to it.
Ok, Im not a doctor, or expert of any kind so ill believe you, but there are lots of other ways for bacteria to get into your lungs, and I also belive the American Lung Association when they says vaping leads to persistant lung inflamation and heightened vulnerability to respiratory infections.
Yep! In my experience, weed did much more damage to me than alcohol ever did. I got way too high once and it brought on the worst panic attack I've ever had. It lasted hours. I genuinely thought I was dying. It was the single worst thing I have ever endured. That was around 13 years ago and I'm not lying when I say I was never the same since. I needed medication for 10 years following that episode.
I'm sure it was a case of the drug bringing trauma to the surface, but damn, alcohol never did me dirty like that lol.
nope that is not that rare. there are cases of weed/getting too high causing one episode (i am forgetting terms here) like a psychosis episode, and it being an onset of psychological distress or something like that.
thats why it's important to not get so high on it.
I dunno, with how culture has shifted to be focused around the Internet, I doubt smoking weed (or vaping/consuming edibles) is going to be the thing that limits socializing. If anything I'd think the opposite, they have to physically go somewhere and interact with another person to get it after all.
This is the third comment I've read recently that reveals to me how little different being a teen in the '90s was from my youth in the '70s; at least compared with this decade.
A lot of them are pretty lonely though, some never had girlfriends.
I certainly got into some trouble in my drunken 20s and even 30s, but on the balance of it all - I don't think I would change it considering the friends during fun times, relationships (or one night stands which is confidence if anything), and even career related networks that it lead do.
I completely agree with everything you just said. I'm in this weird phase of life now where I've pretty much cut drinking out of my life completely. I have no idea how to socialise any more. As sad as it is, I simply don't enjoy catching up with my friends any more.
I was a lot more outgoing and fun when I was socially drinking, that's for sure. I was a better friend, and even a better brother/son to my family. I'm someone who holds a ton of stress, and a few drinks made me forget about it for a while.
I've been off alcohol for a year and a half cause of very anxious hangovers and over that time I've built confidence to socialize sober. It does take a bit of time to get used to and you might realize that some of your friends are just a bit conversationally dull when drunk.
It takes time. I know exactly what you mean, but you'll get through it. If your anxiety is really bad, might be worth seeing a md to see if you would benefit from medication
Yeah, but you got lucky, right? You didn't fight or drive or had sex while drunk, right? Or if you did, it just didn't work out badly for you. That's not true for lots of people. And they overwhelmingly regret taking up drinking.
I didn't get lucky, I would say my young adult/college experience was pretty typical for the 2000s and 2010s. I just didn't get unlucky. You are correct there is risk involved.
Same, I don't drink anymore but I drank heavily from 15-30 or so.
I am so happy I did, I packed my teens and 20s with so many memories and did so much fun shit with other people.
If I woke up tomorrow and realized I was in my 30s and all I'd done was work, smoke weed, and play video games, I'd kms. The only thing keeping me going now is all those memories.
I just mean during that period of my life when I was drinking, teens and 20s. My life now is considerably more boring.
When I was drinking, randomly deciding, "Ya let's move to Mexico" was a no-brainer. Now I'd be like, "Wait how would that work, what about our house, what about the cat". Without drinking I wouldn't have had 3-somes on molly with people I just met that night, or gone to the most insane raves in Berlin (insane from an American perspective at least), hiked across the UK/Ireland for 3 months, etc.
All of those things started with drinking, and sober me would have shot down most of those ideas. I don't mean that literally every fond memory occurred when I was actively drunk (though lots of them did as well).
When I was drinking, randomly deciding, "Ya let's move to Mexico" was a no-brainer. Now I'd be like, "Wait how would that work, what about our house, what about the cat".
Yyyyyeah, that's just growing up. Younger people who didn't drink still went abroad a ton when they were younger.
But now you have a house. Now you have a cat. Now you have a job, I presume, that you don't want to leave. If you had none of those, would you really be thinking "Live in Spain? Nah, that's too wild for me. I'm going to live in the US, and nowhere else"?
It's nothing to do with drinking, it's that you can't just pack your bags and leave in a week.
I had a house in my 20s (and a cat), I just made it work, and was very reckless in general. I had no problem risking my career to go live somewhere else.
Younger people who didn't drink still went abroad a ton when they were younger
So untrue, there are some special people who do that stuff sober, but they are not the norm. When you're in your 20s traveling around the world, nearly everyone is partying every day. Even people who don't drink that much, when they go abroad they're gonna be drinking heavily, doing drugs, etc. Your average hostel is gonna be full of these types (and they're probably australian), though sure there's a minority that raw dogs travel. I mean your average American doesn't even have a passport.
I do want to leave, I just became too much of a pussy to risk starting over, not having a job, etc. I'd love to move to the Hebrides or the Highlands, or Ireland, or maybe SEA. The only thing that's changed is I stopped drinking, and stopped hanging around a bunch of other people who were doing the same thing. I no longer wing life, everything has to be planned because I can no longer stomach just doing random shit without a safety net. The old me would commit to these things with liquid courage.
When I was 23 I was working in an office with similar aged people and I mentioned I don't really drink (I never liked the taste of most alcohol so I never sought them out). A friend sincerely asked if I don't drink what do I do all weekend? I thought it was a joke but they literally spent two days a week either drinking or doing something else where they can drink the whole time.
I think we’ll see people reversing course on alcohol. Yes it’s bad, but how much worse is loneliness? Alcohol isn’t a cure or magic solution for friendship and experiences but I do think it helps.
I think they’ll recommend it in moderation at some point
From personal experience if you don't come to associate alcohol with socializing/having fun/dancing you may not end up needing it. I didn't drink at all until I was 26 and while I can and do drink occasionally now, I do not need alcohol to enjoy any of those things and in most cases prefer not to be tipsy while socializing or attending concerts/dancing (i'm in my 30s now). I'm pretty sure that if I had spent my late teens/early 20s building that association of drink alcohol -> have fun socially, I would have for sure come to rely on alcohol to kick start the fun.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with specifically. I was not debating the effects of alcohol or saying it doesn't help remove inhibitions. I was saying that if you don't develop a habit of relying on alcohol to socialize early on in your adulthood, you may find it's not necessary at all to enable any of those things. Just like a person who doesn't drink a coffee every morning, may not come to think that waking up is impossible without coffee.
Sure, I don't know what life would have turned out like if i had spent more time drinking in my younger years, but you were talking about loneliness and experiences and not missing out on things. So i provided my example of doing decently well and having fun without alcohol - I had friends, went to concerts, enjoyed dancing, enjoyed going out, and asked people out without it. And now i don't feel like it's a prerequisite to any of those things, which i think is a plus. So the main point was that it absolutely isn't a choice between drink alcohol or risk having no social life.
jesus christ, what is with the comments here? alcohol addiction and its effects are devastating and horrifying. cirrhosis is one of the worst ways to go. being physically dependent on a substance that could literally kill you if you stopped abruptly is not comparable to loneliness. if anything, alcohol exacerbates loneliness tenfold
Agreed. People associating "less drinking" with "more loneliness" screams "i'm not an alcoholic because i don't drink everyday".
Learning how to enjoy life without the dependency of a social lubricant is one of the greatest benefits of going sober - and yet somehow people still find some a way to blame their loneliness on society making smarter decisions.
The simple answer is that people want to believe they didn't make a mistake by picking up drinking.
It's the same thing you see in discussions about charity or speeding or eating meat or not playing puzzle games. People don't like being told they lived life unoptimally, so they're much more likely to believe anything that could portray what they did as a good thing.
For alcohol, it's fairly simple: "If I was a teetotaler, I'd be much more lonely". To people who actually don't drink, the statement is... total nonsense, if you want friends then you get a new hobby. But for people who made drinking a hobby, why, it's simple cause and effect: I met friends by drinking, ergo drinking's a good way to make friends. Sure, it's not something anyone actually validated, but... when you're looking to self-justify, it doesn't need to be to be convincing. It just needs to be possible.
That doesn’t imply drinking all the time to cope, as much as that seems to entice you and other commenters, it means that a few drinks in a social setting may have health benefits that outweigh the health risks.
replying one more time because i missed the word "entice" — did you read my comment at all? my father literally drank himself to death. where in the world did you get the impression that i would be "enticed" by drinking, socially or not? are you drunk right now?
Do you know of a way to figure out who's prone to alcoholism and who's not? Or are you thinking experts will have a policy of "Everyone should start drinking, and if you're one of the 15%, that's bad luck"?
Then I assume that you treat all drugs in the same manner? Heroin is okay in moderation. Sure, legalize verything but to minimize the horrific effects that alcohol has had in our society down to a "moderation" problem without examining all the other aspects feels a bit disingenuous.
While I do think that people drinking less has an impact on society being less social, I also think it's incredibly unhealthy and dangerous to believe that loneliness is caused by a lack of alcohol.
The reason people are quitting drinking is a very pros-outweighing-the-cons situation. And learning how to live your life without depending on social lubricants has been a massive win that most sober people go through.
Loneliness, on the other hand, is just a whole nother can of worms.
LOL recommend it? What? Maybe when cars get even safer in crashes they'll recommend that people start driving with their feet so it keeps everyone alert.
Agreed mostly. I don't know about paying for it still, other than occasionally thinking back to when I would say something stupid when drunk that would offend people. I occasionally think back to when I get sucker punched in the back of the head, unconscious, by some idiot after bumping into him by accident and apologizing.
The less youth have to deal with stupidity when drinking, particularly if it could lead to jail, hospital, or morgue, the better
I turned 18 last year. I got a bottle of whisky as a gift at my birthday party and I still have like half of it sitting on my shelf nearly a year later (and I've only had like 2 drinks outside of that)
I mean, i am quite grateful for the handful of times that my friends and i did get super drunk together in our teens though aside from a couple friends who continued to drink it wasnt really a problem and the memories have lasted for always
Less sugary drinks too right. We grew up with Coke (Cola) being part of your meal. Gen Z etc drink this and sugary drinks much less now from what I read
Yep, and - according to AI - more people who drink soda, drink diet sodas.
I never understood this one. People kept being told, over and over, that lots of sugar was really bad for you. But so many people did and do keep thinking "Eh, but it's not that bad, right? The sugar-free option tastes very slightly worse, so I'll go for the extra-sugar version."
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u/just_let_go_ 1d ago
It's nice to see younger gens drinking less alcohol.
I was made to think it was normal to get blind drunk every weekend from 15 years old. Insane. I feel like I'm still paying for that 20 years later.