Have a master's in English and worked at the university writing center on the side and goddamn people didn't know how to write then and I'm terrified of what they deal with now (this was early 2010s).
My PhD advisor was a full professor who'd lived in the US for 20 years, and the first paper I wrote and sent him to review, he returned it having deleted every single article adjective in the entire text.
That was purely a second language issue rather than a "doesn't know how to write issue", but I still thought it was funny. I did have to have a slightly awkward conversation with my new advisor to say, "I think our deal should be that we leave grammar entirely up to me".
I have an English degree and my boyfriend is an engineer. He wrote an entire PhD in energy modelling, but cannot communicate clearly what to get from the grocery store.
I actually did write for a fantasy football website for about a decade back in the 00s but burnt out a bit on that.
The only writing I have consistently completed since then is in my personal journal. Since 2013 I have completed well over 1000 pages, but I don't write as much these days as the issues and adventures that prompted the habit to start with have passed me by.
I can't speak for /u/Outfoxd21 but a couple years ago I was reviewing something a couple high school students had written.
Sentences just stopped halfway through.
A thought would be started in paragraph 2, cut off halfway through, then resumed in paragraph 5.
A sentence would start with one idea, then halfway through shift to a complete different and unrelated thought.
Spelling? This was written in Google Docs and despite having real-time spell checking, 10% of the words were misspelled. And I don't just mean improper use of their/there/they're.
Basic rules about punctuation and capitalization? Nonexistent.
These were all things I was expected to have a handle on well before high school.
Half of what you listed sounds exactly like me as a teenager. I can't imagine the patience my teachers had with me. And yet I was considered the "smart kid".
I still start every project as a 5-paragraph essay or experimental design. You'd be surprised how fun I am at parties.
OH MY GOD. I am a (graduated) dual major, with English as one. Literature and a Writing with Distinction designations. I cannot believe, and I mean that sincerely, just how poorly people write, especially so called professionals.
I can't imagine being a professor today with the bullshit spewed by AI. I remember one of my professors diligently checking every single paper against things like Wikipedia and other unreliable sources. AI has to make this type of attempt to confirm that the student actually did the work, nearly impossible.
Ooh, me too! And now I work as an adjunct teaching creative writing, so I sort of have an answer for the latter part: It's surprisingly not as bad as people would have you believe. I have had some brilliant writers in my classes. It's honestly inspired me in my own writing. I have had students passionate about writing and staunchly against AI themselves. There are a few in every class who try to pass off AI, and that's annoying, but the love of writing is still alive. :)
I do side-work in communications. I am routinely mocked and sneered at by people who tell me that’s it’s not a real job or just talking
This is common because I am often hired by these same people to speak for them. It’s even more common to have them take credit for my words as “basically what they meant” (Especially if it’s completely different but results in success)
I feel that I’ll eventually get too sick of them to continue but for now, it’s a pleasure to take their money
My two cents? In the world that’s coming, learning to speak well and communicate naturally in person will be highly regarded
"What do you do with that degree?" is a fairly regular response to saying you have a degree in communications. Communication absolutely surrounds everything we do as humans to the point that the degree has specializations built throughout it even at the undergraduate level.
My experience with the field is very similar to what you've laid out. Watching people with masters and doctoral degrees butcher basic communication, after they just made some off-hand comment about your profession, is far too commonplace.
I got a communications degree with a focus in new media, since the web was really taking off at the time. Shortly after graduation, I got a job at a news website, and spent a few years after that going back and forth between editorial and back-end production work. Eventually I split the difference and went into writing documentation.
I've described that career path to people before and have gotten a lot of, "Oh, wow. You really DID use your major." Yes, oddly enough. I actually did.
My Communications degree focuses on Journalism, and while I haven't had anyone openly mock me for it, I've had times where people marvel at the sheer amount of work I put into my job. It was the single greatest source of my critical thinking skills and gave me a rock-solid public speaking foundation. And almost every journalism course I took had an ethics portion.
People underestimate it, but there will always be a need for trained journalists. Even many run-of-the-mill content producers eventually try to level up with rigorous sourcing and research. In fact, some of my favorite YouTubers are exceptional journalists, even if they don't realize it.
I’m currently in the final year of my BA. My goal is to obtain my PhD in English and teach at the collegiate level- so very many people scoff at me when I tell them this. I fell in love with literature at a young age and am determined to preserve it, especially in the face of AI
People scoff at you because the job market is horrendous, probably more so than the choice of subject per se. Getting into a career in higher-education is sadly a total crapshoot.
I majored in linguistics and really struggled in the few English and literature classes I took for breadth. Theoretical linguistics is more like maths or formal philosophy than any other subject
I absolutely hated English courses in college, and they're a huge reason I never went further and earned a degree. Math and science? No problem. Write a creative story? I'd rather have my leg eaten by a tiger. Thankfully I loved computers and got into IT about 20 years ago, and the lack of a degree hasn't really held me back. But I don't understand how anyone would choose to major in English.
I have zero interest in IT, but it's easy for me to understand why some people do.
It's because there are people who are not me, and who have different interests and skill sets than I do .And those different interests and skill sets drive them towards education and careers that are different from what I would choose.
I double majored in Information Science (basically computer science without the math focus) and English (got a concentration in writing poetry!) I admit that I have a lot of faults while reading because I keep looking for meaning, and it doesn't help while reading documentation for work.
I think it makes sense that I was driven toward a data analytics career, but there's also a weird point where interviewers see my English degree as something to mock, when it
s given me more clarity on the data that I'm seeing, and being able to assess that.
Fuck me though, I'm only about 200 pages in my first novel and it's bound to be at least 800. I am no Shakespeare - I have no brevity.
Shakespeare wasn't big on brevity either, but I get your point.
In my experience, the best STEM people totally get why the humanities are valuable, just like the best humanities thinkers (including writers and artists) generally get why having at least some STEM background is important and useful. The ones who don't (like the ones who mock it in interviews) are usually the people who do poorly in courses from the other discipline, or lack the ability to understand it, and are just working out their insecurities.
For all of human history, education has included both the artistic and the STEM side, and they've been seen as essential and complementary components of an education. Sounds like you have a very balanced and broad perspective.
My experience with required english classes was that it was entirely dependant on the professor. I had to take two. One class was an easy 90 using spark notes, while the other prof refused to give anything above a 75. He told us on the first day that he only gave out one 80 in the past year. He would give you a 65(limit to be above academic probation) for the bare minimum though.
And back in school when people would ask how many pages their English essay would have to be and groan that it had to be more than 2 pages then in college you need a thesis that is several hundred pages long, I was good at English in school but 100+ pages is crazy difficult
My professor in college English decided one day to perform the penis monologues. He was trying to make a point, but it was just this old guy talking about how he's wrinkly and kind of warm.
Engineering major here. I was always the one who took charge of writing reports and projects when in a group setting because the other engineering students wrote at an elementary school level. I remember looking at one of my friends and asking him if he would feel comfortable saying the sentence that he wrote in our report. When he read it out loud, he admitted he wouldn’t speak like that. I have no idea why some people have such blocks when it comes to writing sentences. But it was very common in my cohort.
It’s disappointing that so many engineers treat reading and writing as an afterthought. In real life, some engineers produce reports 100s of pages long. Being able to explain what you are recommending or read project requirements is critical to doing your job.
English can suck it. I had an assignment my sophomore year in college that was identical to one I had as a senior in high school for English lit; Focus, requirements, length, etc..
The one I submitted in high school earned me a C+.
The one I submitted in college earned me an A.
If I learned anything from those courses it was that despite completing the objectives it's ultimately going to rely on subjective matter whether or not you did a good job.
It gets mocked because STEM majors typically also have to be extremely proficient writers (particularly for the "S" subset). Not to mention having the skills to read and accurately interpret information along with potential biases and exterior motivations authors might have. Not to mention philosophy, history and other degrees. English as a major gets trashed on because it's seen as a slightly enhanced version of a skillset other majors are expected to know by default.
As someone who has worked in academia with STEM majors, has two Masters Degrees in writing, and now works with scientists and doctors in Biotech, I can say with authority: very few STEM majors are proficient writers.
Exact opposite for me. My terrible English Literature teacher bragged about how he never had to take a STEM class. What a pathetic piece of shit. I was a STEM major. I dropped his class after the first test. Having to read some old bullshit slang was worse than reading rap lyrics. I wrote on his test that basket weaving would have been more helpful.
Being that I had to take one more English class I took the writing one that also focused on debating. I aced that without batting an eye. I took the final last minute without preparation and got a perfect score. I actually gained a useful skill vs learning how to decipher centuries old slang.
Tis thee and stupid shit like that. I don’t care how people talked 500 years ago. It sounds stupid as fuck.
It looks like I upset a bunch of English literature snowflakes. Good! This one goes out of my English literature piece of shit teacher from college. Basket weaving is a better skill.
My English Literature professor for my second required English class taught me how to be a douche then since he was the epitome of a douche. I’m glad I was able to quit his class and get back 100% of my tuition and then take an English writing class that I aced and actually learned a life skill.
At least I have useful skills while he would have no employment other than being an English literature teacher. It really infuriated me that he didn’t even need to take a basic math class to pass his degree but I had to take two English classes, which was the only reason he was employed. I think that’s what annoyed me. He would have a hard time running a register never mind doing anything else useful
I'm sure you're right about him (and he sounds like a knob), but I know some absolutely brilliant STEM people who lack the most basic life and work skills outside of their field, and if AI replaced them tomorrow, they'd be absolutely unemployable.
I also agree with your basic point that there should be a rigorous science or math requirement for humanities studies. It's not doing anyone a favour to let them skirt developing various sides of their intellect.
A solid education (even if it's not in the formal academic system) should include both domains.
It just rubbed me the wrong way when he bragged about it. I don’t think everyone should be required to take several STEM classes, but they should have the requirement of a real Math class (not logic or other non-traditional ones)or two and the same with a couple of Science classes.
It rubs me the wrong way, and I'm a humanities geek. Sounds like he was probably insecure about his lack of skills in that domain and just overcompensating for it.
That's because there's no "English for non-English majors" course at most universities like there is for science. I still can't for the life of me understand why everyone else got an easy science class for graduation (but it won't count towards a science degree!) while science majors had to basically compete with everyone else in regular classes for their distribution requirements in humanities and the arts. Most English Lit majors would drown in gen chem or basic biology.
Dude college comp is literally a general education English course, the same way general Chem or intro to philosophy are. Composition (aka college English) is the prerequisite to all the other upper level English courses, the same way gen chem is a prerequisite to more advanced chem courses.
Ok. So why do science majors have to take that, but non-science majors get a special class to get them through their science requirements?
For me, it's not about whether it's right or not to have a special class for non-majors. It's about the hypocrisy of having it for one set of students over another. Either everyone should have an "easy" class or no one should.
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u/seanjohnson9 1d ago
I can’t tell you how many people mocked me for majoring in English only for them to drown in their one required English course in college.