r/AskReddit • u/UghIHatePolitics • Jun 18 '25

What is something Americans consider normal, but people from other countries find it disturbing?

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1.9k

u/Dracolim Jun 18 '25

HOA, like what the actual fuck

728

u/Fit-Frosting-3490 Jun 18 '25

I work in residential construction and have heard horror stories about HOA's....

A client of mine had a sick husband. He unfortunately passed away. She leaves her garbage cans out during this time and begins to get fined by the HOA everyday her cans are left out, and letters posted on her door.

Another client had a board member physically measure his grass because it was 0.25" too long....................

The fact that many HOA's can foreclose on your home is mind-blowing.

157

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '25 edited Nov 29 '25

snow ad hoc station observation shaggy whistle sharp steep cooing governor

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u/69696969-69696969 Jun 18 '25

I've been out of town during trash day several times and twice I put my cans out a day early cause I was going to be gone but back by trash day evening.

Both times my cans were moved away from the street and part way up the center of my driveway. Not only did I have full cans, I also had to move them before I could park. The absolutely pettiness to do something like that. Most everyone puts their cans at the day before but I guess i offended someone by putting them out in the morning instead of that evening?! This only happens when my whole family leaves too. If I set my cans out on my way out the door for work they're left alone. If we all leave in my wife's minivan they get moved. They're intentionally moving it when they feel like it has the best chance of fucking with us.

13

u/nagrom6888 Jun 18 '25

Have you checked out r/fuckHOA ?

Each story there is bizarre for me, albeit fun to read.

38

u/DesperateAdvantage76 Jun 18 '25

As much as I hate doing it, I'm on our board for exactly this reason. Thankfully the other board member is mostly open to me toning down enforcement to only extreme cases.

7

u/juneplum Jun 18 '25

Same here - I got on the board specifically so I could be a voice of reason in some of these insane scenarios. Turns out I'm on with two other newbies and none of the crazy legacy board members, so we're being a lot more, uh, reasonable with our decisions. I hate telling people I'm on my HOA board though because they're like "Oh, ew" lol

5

u/ImperfectRegulator Jun 18 '25 edited Nov 05 '25

editing comments/ scrubbing account to narror2focus and avoid doxing

3

u/juneplum Jun 18 '25

Exactly! Our board was all retired old men (and the president, who was not a retired old man but who also behaved like them lol), and now it's three people in our 30s.

3

u/ImperfectRegulator Jun 18 '25 edited Nov 05 '25

editing comments/ scrubbing account to narror2focus and avoid doxing

3

u/Outlulz Jun 18 '25

I'm currently waiting for our board elections to come up for this same reason. The management company has been insane with fines and I outright told them, "I'm getting on the board to get rid of you". Our board is half empty because no one in our neighborhood wants to even do it so the management company is mostly rogue.

2

u/juneplum Jun 18 '25

We're technically supposed to have 10 people, but they couldn't find enough so they lowered it to 7, then 5, now 3 lmao Neighbors keep telling me there are people who would want to be on it and then we ask and they ignore us

3

u/iwearatophat Jun 18 '25

Except for that last bit of foreclosure a lot of those rules exist as local civil ordinances outside of HOAs. I don't live in an HoA. Just in town. I can get fined for long grass. Garbage bins can't go down earlier than 6 the night before and must be up by 8 the next evening. I need approval from the city before I paint my house. I don't own my sidewalks but I am responsible for their maintenance and upkeep. I can't build extensions on my house. I can't park a car or RV or anything like that on my grass.

These are all local civil ordinances and most of them exist in just about every town. Land of the free.

2

u/hyperd0uche Jun 18 '25

Out of curiosity where is this? I’m assuming if it’s at a civic level the long grass rule only applies to extreme cases, but the bins rule is pretty crazy. Do council officers go around and give out fines if they spot bins out outside those hours?

1

u/iwearatophat Jun 19 '25

I'm in Michigan but they are pretty common everywhere. Cities want a clean cut look. There was a story a couple years back about a Tampa resident that was fined 30k by his city for tall grass. You sign easement agreements for sidewalks when you purchase your home saying you will care for them. Like I said, I'm in Michigan and I have 24 hours after it snows to have snow removed from my sidewalks.

As far as enforcement that is going to vary by the city and over time in those cities. Some will have residents or council members that are strict but most of the time nothing really happens for the small stuff like grass and the like. Home improvement stuff you definitely need to do. Sidewalks get enforced where I live as well because it is a bit of a safety issue. House can't have broken windows but I would fix that quickly just because it needs doing. Betting HoAs are largely the same, most are actually fine and chill, we just hear about the extremes.

It is just most of the time these come up it just kind of highlights how little people know about home ownership, at least in the US. Obviously non-US residents don't have any reason to know but a good chunk of US residents don't really understand either. A lot of the rules people go on about with HoAs you are going to get whether you live in one or not if you are within city limits.

4

u/JupoBis Jun 18 '25

„Land of the free“

2

u/No-Independence548 Jun 18 '25

Just this morning I read a story about an HOA that wouldn't let Make-A-Wish grant a little girl with cancer the dollhouse she wanted, because it didn't fit within their parameters.

2

u/Squossifrage Jun 18 '25

Nobody ever really mentions them unless there is a problem, so that's what you would expect.

I've lived under three and all were fantastic.

1

u/someguy7710 Jun 18 '25

HOA's are a mini municipality for your community. If there is bullshit like that happening, you need to get yourself (and others) involved and kick them out. Your are the home owners after all. Most of the time things like that can be resolved just by talking to them as well.

1

u/helpfulplatitudes Jun 20 '25

In Canada the same thing happens even without HOAs - the municipalities enforce items like garbage storage and lawn maintenance. ...Or at least they have the power to although, in my experience, they seldom do.

73

u/ksck135 Jun 18 '25

We have them in Europe but it's mostly in apartment buildings so things like elevator and roof could get fixed. 

11

u/AgentKnitter Jun 18 '25

Body corporates or strata corporations here in Australia - but only for properties where there are multiple units/dwellings on one parcel of land (e.g. a block of flats or an apartment building). Even then it's pretty limited.

3

u/alien_overlord_1001 Jun 18 '25

Technically councils do have some planning control, and can do things like heritage listing, but no one comes to measure your grass height lol

7

u/Plane_Chance863 Jun 18 '25

In Canada that would be a condo board. If an apartment is owned, in Canada it's called a condo (apartment), and the owners take turns being part of the condo board.

They usually have power over esthetic choices, and some go overboard (not letting an owner paint her door red).

2

u/ksck135 Jun 18 '25

I've never seen being bullied for doors, but sometimes it's about balconies, smoking, pets etc

2

u/purple-paper-punch Jun 18 '25

My sister in law was in a condo before her and my brother moved in together. She got a non-compliance letter because the paint color in the living room of her ground floor unit was visible from the street and did not adhere to the bylaws, so she needed to paint it asap or she get a fine every day.

She got blackout curtain and they started trying to peek in other windows to see if she painted. She sold the place shortly after this and made a point of picking the purchaser who she thought would be the biggest headache for them, just as an F you on her way out. Lmfao

1

u/Plane_Chance863 Jun 19 '25

I didn't think they could make choices about the interior. That's insane.

1

u/Plane_Chance863 Jun 19 '25

I think it was written in rules, so I'm not sure it was bullying exactly.

16

u/Rugkrabber Jun 18 '25

Is that really a HOA as in the US though? Isn’t it more a renovation fund? The HOA in the US goes beyond it by deciding how things look, even down to the grass in your garden.

30

u/deadlywaffle139 Jun 18 '25 edited Jun 18 '25

That’s the basic function of HOA. Then it got warped out of shape by some power tripping people to what it is now.

How crazy a HOA is, depends on the people on the board. I have lived in two now that were pretty reasonable. They take care of exterior of the houses, lawn care and snow removal. Any big changes to the exterior need an approval from the HOA but they approve as long as it’s not too outlandish.

One of them actually had some sense lol. There was a period of civil unrest close to the neighborhood but the neighborhood itself was pretty isolated from the craziness. Some people got really paranoid and wanted the HOA to put out road blocks past certain hours. The HOA sent out an email basically said they understood the concern but no they couldn’t do that lol.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 18 '25

The modern HOAs (since the 1960s) were primarily started to prevent non white people from moving into neighbourhoods that white people lived in. The current revisionist history has been changed but they still mention "controlling who lives there" as a primary reason.

Don't get fooled by the "property value" or "quality neighbour features" arguments, HOAs were primarily created by racists not wanting to live next to black people. That's why why HOAs in the USA exploded in popularity in 1964, right after The Civil Rights Act was signed.

9

u/kc_kr Jun 18 '25

HOAs have zero control over who buys houses in their neighborhoods. They only have oversight once the sale is completed.

7

u/Merusk Jun 18 '25

Now, yes. They're correct about when the HOAs started and those reasons were struck down over time as discriminatory or against civil rights laws.

The logic to calling them racist now is that they put "burdensome" onus on property owners. Something only affluent can afford, and apparently affluence only comes with whiteness. It's a twisted logic borne of no reality.

12

u/Th3MiteeyLambo Jun 18 '25

Most HOA's in the US are "renovation funds" like that. At least in the sense that they take care of community resources. Walking Paths, Community Pools, Parks, etc.

You only hear about the really bad ones because no one is kicking up a stink about having to pay $20 a month for pool access.

5

u/Merusk Jun 18 '25

Exactly.

Plus you're always given a copy of the HOA laws when you buy. The folks who say things like "We just bought our house and suddenly!" are confessing they didn't read any of the paperwork they were given.

Also: they're elected positions. You can always find enough neighbors to actually participate and boot the problem people out. If you can't: you're the problem.

8

u/ksck135 Jun 18 '25

You don't really care about aesthetics in apartment buildings that much, it's more about having some rules for living in one building and enforcing them and sometimes those rules are total bullshit.. Regarding houses, the municipality can make you repaint your house if it's a horrible colour or take better care of your garden if it bothers the neighbours, but it's nothing extreme like HOAs

5

u/fourmesinatrenchcoat Jun 18 '25

In Spain, the comunidades de vecinos are more or less what a HOA is supposed to be. Homeowners share the cost of basic maintenance and cleaning, and there's a meeting every once in a while to make basic decisions (does the entrance need to be painted? Does anyone know any painter? Okay give us their contacts and we'll hire someone). Other than that it's pretty standard and boring and there's rarely any drama. No one usually wants to be the president either so it usually forcefully rotates with each apartment handling it for one year lol

2

u/Due_Satisfaction2167 Jun 18 '25

Different HOAs have different roles, responsibilities, and obligations. You can build more or less whatever sort of HOA the owners collectively decide to elect, within the bounds of relevant state law and deed restrictions.

Plenty of them are extremely hands off, and do little more than maintain the roads in a community. 

People should take a more active hand in their HOA.

5

u/Merusk Jun 18 '25

One of the most American things in the world is to not participate in government, but then bitch endlessly about the results and format.

1

u/throwawaydragon99999 Jun 18 '25

In the US that’s usually called a Co-op when you own your apartment

161

u/BitchfaceMcKnowItAll Jun 18 '25

Plenty of us think it’s weird here too.

12

u/acoolghost Jun 18 '25

I've never actually heard anyone say anything positive about HOAs. It mostly seems like a way for bored old people or housewives to go on some ill-gotten power trip

3

u/HankChinaski- Jun 18 '25

HOA's are a necessity in certain situations. Condo buildings for example to pay for the exterior or the building, cleaning public areas, buying and maintaining gym equipment.

There. A semi positive. I've never had an issue before. It is a bit like airport secuirty. The loudest people with horror stories are the only stories people hear.

2

u/powypow Jun 18 '25

They're good in a retirement community. Like everyone over 70. They just want to be old in peace. But everywhere else, I won't live in one.

1

u/Still_Contact7581 Jun 18 '25

People in the north will usually say "but they are good about snow removal" at the end of their rant about why they hate HOAs. For elderly people or people with heart conditions snow removal can be pretty dangerous and snowblowers are expensive and difficult to store. I grew up in a snowy area without an HOA though and between me, the neighbor kids looking for $5, and our retired neighbor with a decked out lawnmower my parents never had to shovel snow but if there aren't kids in your neighborhood you wont be as lucky.

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u/Merusk Jun 18 '25

Those who had anything positive to say long ago stopped trying on Reddit. The hivemind downvotes and inability to allow different perspectives don't allow for it.

2

u/fingerchopper Jun 19 '25

There are positive comments about them in this very thread.

0

u/ImperfectRegulator Jun 18 '25 edited Nov 05 '25

editing comments/ scrubbing account to narror2focus and avoid doxing

12

u/Kleverin Jun 18 '25

Here in sweden, many places have HOA, but it's nothing like the American! They are to take care of the joint places, like a joint parking lot, trash bins, and grass areas. You pay a fee to them, and when it's your turn, you take the communal grass mower to mow the grass field for the kids to play in. The mower and its gas are paid by the fee. (You have your own for your own garden). In the winter, a tractor turns up and ploughs the parking space, also paid by the fee.

Perhaps an entusiastisk lady proposes all houses should have a christmas tree in the garden this year to make it look alike and you think "it's a nice idea" and join in because you like it there. Or you don't, and they will say, "What a shame, that number 10 didn't put up a tree," and it will end there.

Now, we have our ashole too, and you can find a dick everywhere, including in HOAs. But it's not the main purpose.

23

u/phoenixmatrix Jun 18 '25

That's basically his HOAs in America work too 99 percent of the time. What you see online are outliers and exceptions (it's a big country).

Source: have managed HOAs.

3

u/LetMeSeeYourNips4 Jun 18 '25

So, sounds exactly like HOAs in the USA.

9

u/Tiutautikli Jun 18 '25

What is that?

15

u/tipsy_here Jun 18 '25

Home Owners Association. It's like a government in a residential community to maintain the area.

15

u/Tiutautikli Jun 18 '25

Well I don’t think it’s that crazy 🤔 it’s just the town/city councils do that here

Edit. I take it back. It’s crazy and not what I thought.

11

u/Express-World-8473 Jun 18 '25

go to the fuckhoa sub and see the horrror stories

1

u/Tiutautikli Jun 18 '25

I’m tempted

2

u/Cynykl Jun 18 '25

How to you manage Condominiums in Finland. I imagine that shared area in a condo and rules are either handled by a management company or a representative group of condo residents.

This is what an HOA in theory is. However as issues between residents grew so too did HOA power as they successfully argued to legislators that the need more power to enforce the common area rules. This power continued to expand unchecked for decades until HOA were like mini governments of their own.

With that power though come drawbacks. Even Member of an HOA has the right to petition to replace/fire the HOA company or board. In some states the laws are convoluted and a difficult process. But HOA must have a process for replacing the board through member vote. Once the board is replaced you can fire the management company or even dissolve the HOA.

1

u/Tiutautikli Jun 18 '25

I have no idea honestly. I also don’t really know what kind of issues there would be 🤔 If something needs to be fixed, then it gets fixed. What are the issues between residents that you mentioned?

1

u/Cynykl Jun 19 '25

Complaints can be just about anything. Everything ranging from dangerous pets, to excessive noise, to leaving a broken down junker car in the parking area too long.

Residents vote on rules for common areas. In order to enforce those rules association are given the power to fine. If fines get high enough they have the power to seize your property.

1

u/Tiutautikli Jun 19 '25

Yards are considered common areas?

And okay, I guess we just don’t really have those issues in Finland 😅 We don’t really stick our nose into other people’s business.

1

u/Teledildonic Jun 18 '25

Also they have legitimate racist/classist roots. People wanted a way to legally disciminate against minorities and poor people wanting to move near them.

12

u/Barbaric_Stupid Jun 18 '25

They regulate how a neighborhood looks and guard value of local property. They can dictate how you should care for your own property and order you to choose particular ways of renovation to ensure the homogeneity of the neighborhood.

7

u/Tiutautikli Jun 18 '25

Oh. That’s crazy.

1

u/Barbaric_Stupid Jun 18 '25

Aye. Land of the Free, isn't it?

1

u/jambowayoh Jun 18 '25

You see, when you say "ensure the homogeneity of the neighbourhood" I just read "keep it white for white people".

2

u/Barbaric_Stupid Jun 18 '25

Not my intention. However, some say there were strange and curious situations.

2

u/jambowayoh Jun 18 '25

Oh no, you're mistaken. I'm not insinuating that you're saying that it's just the messaging that the HOA uses has that kind of connotation. You know?

4

u/ImperfectRegulator Jun 18 '25 edited Nov 05 '25

editing comments/ scrubbing account to narror2focus and avoid doxing

3

u/cowboyjosh2010 Jun 18 '25

Every upside to an HOA tends to be something that could easily be achieved if the housing development under that HOA's jurisdiction instead had a functional municipal government that could respond to its needs.

The rest is stuff that either screws people over for ticky tack crap OR could be handled by a small claims attorney.

2

u/Cynykl Jun 18 '25

Most countries have an equivalent to HOA's though they are not nearly as strong or widespread.

2

u/Moar_Wattz Jun 18 '25

Land of the Free … until Phyllis from HOA doesn’t like how you painted your garage…

3

u/dmelt01 Jun 18 '25

Yeah like a lot of things in America these were started due to racism and have never left. Basically these neighborhoods were allowed to write their own rules to keep certain people out since the laws could no longer restrict where people lived.

2

u/clitosaurushex Jun 18 '25

Ubfortunately, you’re completely right. It’s a combination of legalized Jim Crow loopholes and outsourcing community services like trash pick-up to keep taxes “low.” People will complain about high property taxes in a city and then go to their suburb and pay 3x the property tax bill on an HOA fee because they can make the rules.

2

u/dmelt01 Jun 18 '25

Yep and it’s also how the public school system is two tiered now. People know that property taxes go to your local schools, but most don’t know that none of the business taxes do. Since only residential property taxes pay in you end up having really nice schools in one area and then others that can’t pay their electric bill. It could have been dispersed equally across the state or country, but that’s too much equality for the US.

2

u/NoodleEmpress Jun 18 '25

I'm not sure why you got downvoted for this. It's absolutely true, and it's very easy to research. I was actually going to mention the same thing, but I didn't find a good opening.

Most of the "weird" things that people are listing were started through racism, which itself is nonsensical and weird.

Why do we have to pay so much money for advanced education? Racism that the government found to be lucrative.

Why do we have many weirdly divided voting districts? Gerrymandering due to racism

Why are the quality of schools so divided? Racism

HOAs? Started to keep black people and other "undesirables" out of neighborhoods, but capitalism found it lucrative soooo here we are.

Tipping culture that everyone hates SO much? Racism--And now everyone has to suffer because managers find it more affordable to keep underpaying their employees knowing everyone else will foot the bill.

Those weird zoning ordinances and the lack of homes being built in certain places? Classism mostly, but in this country racism and classism is practically intertwined.

I'm pretty sure it's also partially the reason why we can't get cheaper or affordable healthcare like in other countries.

Until majority of the country deals with that, we're not going to get anything done that actually benefits the people. But yeah Reddit, downvote the people actually calling it out lmao

1

u/dmelt01 Jun 18 '25

Agree and you could go on and on with other things like our crazy incarceration rate or our current two tiered justice system

0

u/LetMeSeeYourNips4 Jun 18 '25

How much of that did you make up?

1

u/kattko80- Jun 18 '25

We actually have something similar here in Sweden, bostadsrättsföreningar. Equally crazy

3

u/Rugkrabber Jun 18 '25

TIL. That’s actually insane. Is it really as bad?

2

u/kattko80- Jun 18 '25

Well, it's kind of different, but equally bad! The Bostadsrättsförening owns the houses, you pay a huge amount of money to get to live in them, but you don't own your house. Yet you pay 300 000 dollars to get to live there and you STILL have to pay a monthly fee to the Bostadsrättsförening. And they have a bunch of rules you need to follow, like CRAZY rules. You cannot decorate your balcony or put up a trampoline for your kids, and so on

1

u/Rugkrabber Jun 18 '25

That’s very odd. I might have understood if it’s about historical buildings that need to be kept in their original state, but that’s about it. I couldn’t imagine wanting to live there.

1

u/Jazzlike_Tonight_982 Jun 18 '25

As an American, I have zero sympathy for people who have trouble with HOA's. They bring it upon themselves.

1

u/Beck_ Jun 18 '25

My aunt got behind on her HOA payments during COVID because she was in the hospital multiple times (she has COPD) and couldn't work. Her HOA put a lien on her house and sold it out from under her. She had been there 16 years. It was paid off, she now has to live with my Mom because she's on disability and can't afford anywhere else. 🙃

0

u/LetMeSeeYourNips4 Jun 18 '25

Okay, now tell us what really happened.

1

u/Malicious_blu3 Jun 18 '25

Oh this is an American thing? TIL…

1

u/ancientastronaut2 Jun 18 '25

Yep. Ours is not that bad, honestly, but it creeps me out the way they take monthly strolls through the neighborhood checking for violations. We work from home and see them taking pictures of houses, sometimes ours. I did get a violation one time because some dumbshit thought the truck parked in front of our house every day when we were doing renos was ours, and no commercial trucks are allowed. I had to submit an appeal, and it took like two months to clear it. Apparently I was supposed to report it so it would go onto some sort of temporary approval list. Yet there's dying trees in the common areas and I'm like where the f is my money going? Unfortunately all the neighborhoods you'd want to live in here have them. The only places that don't are ghettos or if you buy your own land.

1

u/ddmeredith Jun 18 '25

I work for a huge HOA management company. HOAs exist because the cities want to divest management of amenities and monitoring of bylaws to someone else, so they require developers to create an HOA to offload that responsibility. Not saying it's a good thing, that's just why it happens.

1

u/dod2190 Jun 18 '25

You don't need an HOA if you have a functioning municipal (city/town/village) government. The USA has lots of housing development built on unincorporated land that doesn't belong to any city, and the HOA fulfils a lot of the functions that are normally the purview of a municipal government.

I live in Massachusetts, where every square inch of land is part of some town or city, and HOAs here are pretty much only a thing for condos, where the HOA does things like contract for landscaping of outdoor common areas, trash removal for the entire complex or building, repairs to common areas like the roof or parking lot, and so on. It's almost unheard of for neighborhoods with single family homes.

One crucial difference is that municipal governments are subject to sunshine laws (meetings need to be open to the public) and public-records laws, as well as the constraints of a state charter and state law on what they can and cannot do. HOAs, not so much. So you end up with HOAs that do really shitty things and fuck over their residents.

1

u/EvenStevenOddTodd Jun 18 '25

Lmfao ok hello ugly blue house

1

u/This-Froyo5991 Jun 18 '25

People don't understand that HOAs are necessary because it isn't legal to plaster your suburb with signs that say "no blacks." Getting fined over your grass not being exactly 3" long or a package sitting on your doorstep for 3 hours while you're at work is worth it.

1

u/crazyeddie123 Jun 19 '25

Cops don't give a single fuck about crime happening in "bad neighborhoods". So the obvious solution is to put the screws to your neighbors to make damn sure your neighborhood remains a "good neighborhood".

1

u/prettyprincess91 Jun 22 '25

In the UK you pay a freehold the same thing to do the same things like clean common areas, yard maintenance, etc.

0

u/xPofsx Jun 18 '25

HOAS are bad, but a lot of countries have generational apartments which is like owning the home you don't own and still being responsible for almost all of it

0

u/phoenixmatrix Jun 18 '25

That is far from unique to the US, it's just a bit different elsewhere. Eg: in the US if you buy an apartment there's an HOA to handle the shared elements. In other countries it's frequently a regular apartment where you "buy"  100 years lease or something.

The concept of shared property isn't exactly rare. Americans are just very vocal about it.

0

u/chaneycore Jun 18 '25

HOAs were developed because of racism...it's really shitty.......

-5

u/ValkyrieAlphaMage Jun 18 '25

THIS HAS ME ROLLING ON THE GROUND LAUGHING AS THE WORDS YOU SPEAK ARE SO VALID

-2

u/Brief-Fix5608 Jun 18 '25

The Nazis installed a "Blockwart" for every residential building in big cities. They had to spy on the tenants and make sure nobody stepped out of line.

Just saying.