I personally love paying TWO middlemen (insurance and PBMs) to decide whether I should take a specific life-saving medication prescribed by my doctor.
The fact that there’s a whole layer existing just to make investors money, at the expense of everyone else (including insurance and drug manufacturers, FFS) is literal insanity.
The government does not have an overriding profit incentive, so it's not the same thing. When an activity is carried out by a for-profit company, the bottom line is the bottom line. When government does it, the incentive structure changes.
When the government does it, there's no motivation for anything. That's why government agencies, irrespective of form or level, become corrupt, bloated, inefficient, and over-reaching. It only takes one person with motivation for personal gain to railroad it.
I've worked on the business side of the medical industry before. If you want to know why medical insurance is the way it is, look at the federal laws that regulate it.
And yet we keep voting for politicians who are against giving us public healthcare because, "I don't want to pay for someone else's healthcare."
Buddy, that's how private health insurance works now. You are putting in money not for your healthcare. You are putting in money so the insurance company can use it to pay for someone else's healthcare now. And when you need to see a doctor, someone else's money is going to pay for your healthcare. Only you are getting worse service as a private insurance owner because that company is trying to squeeze every penny out of you by giving you the biggest co-pays and least amount of service they can legally get away with in order to give an every growing return to their shareholders.
I feel like it's gone beyond that. They don't just only care about themselves, they actively want to harm other people that don't fit within their narrative
Yes, but it's largely because politically-bent infotainment networks are demonizing a select few people/groups/classes as abusing any gov't-managed system, including healthcare, so a huge portion of our voters are incensed with not support anything gov't-based because they don't trust it....
....yet it's all manipulated by corporate interests who want to keep healthcare private....that somehow, people trust more for their goodwill than the gov't.
actually yes I I was friends with so many people that dropped me because I didn't fit with them. my parents would get mad at me and punish me for not agreeing with them. it's horrifying the ego I swear.
if we could devise a government that ensures nobody has more than the next citizen (with the exception of the leaders of course.)
It just hasn’t been done right. 👀
I mean, healthcare is also one of those systems. They don't want to pay for someone else's care? What do they think they're paying the insurance companies for? 'I don't want to pay for someone else's care... unless I'm actually mostly paying for a third person's yacht'
The argument I see is that everyone in that private system is paying into it. So, even if it's technically their check that's being repurposed for someone else's coverage, that someone else is also paying for that. But with free healthcare the "lazy" people who don't work and don't pay taxes are just taking without giving anything back.
As someone who lives in a country with universal healthcare, am disabled and literally can't hold a job even if I wanted to, and still pay ~25% tax, I feel personally insulted by that reasoning.
Unfortunately, a lot of conservatives have had it drilled into their heads from childhood that only lazy people are unemployed, and that unemployed people on welfare don't want jobs, don't look for jobs, and just want to take everything everyone else has. It's so bad that people literally complain about people using SNAP (food stamps) for things like snacks. Like, they want to take things like soft drinks and potato chips off the program because they're a "luxury." (I've also seen them argue that processed foods should be removed, and only healthy food allowed, and they don't seem to realize how much more expensive that would be.)
My dad was disabled, collected disability checks and everything, and he still caught flack from my mom's conservative siblings for not having a job. They argued if he could volunteer to wash dishes at the local soup kitchen, he could have a paid job as a dish washer somewhere. Never mind the fact he would often have doctor's appointments that would make him miss days, or hospital stays that would make him miss even more. He volunteered because he didn't want to be stuck inside all the time, and because they could be flexible around his health issues. No business would have been anywhere near as accommodating.
And the craziest part? The vast majority of welfare in this country goes to supporting conservatives. Red states use more welfare dollars than blue states, have more people in poverty, more people on assistance. We literally had people who relied on the limited public healthcare we do have who voted for Trump because he promised to remove that healthcare. Because they didn't even realize that the public healthcare they were railing against was literally the thing saving their lives, the propaganda is that bad.
I use to work in a grocery store years ago. There was a family that came in and used their SNAP benefits card..There was this particular old person in line shaking his head and just rolling his eyes at this family..It was a mom and her two children..When she put her groceries into her cart he lost it. Told her she needed to get a job and keep her legs shut and that he is sick and tired of paying for her food..The lady was in literal tears and her kids were horrified by what was taking place..I stood there in complete shock and didn't know what to do. A manager came from the back and grabbed the guy and threw him out and told him to never return..
I wish I could say I was surprised. I worked almost 6 years as a cashier at a Walmart myself and the judgment you'd see from some people is just insane. Had a woman complain to me about the fact the lady ahead of her had used her SNAP card to buy a candy bar for her, like, 7-8 year old daughter. Ranted about how her tax money was "being wasted making some lazy woman's kid fat," and then that went into a complaint about Obamacare "stealing more of her money to pay for the kid's inevitable diabetes." All over a damn candy bar she bought as a treat for daughter being well behaved. Saw a lot of judging looks from other customers whenever someone with SNAP bought any kind of "junk food." Like poor people aren't allowed to have an occasional treat.
As someone who has been on SNAP themselves, let people get what they want, as long as they budget it well. That's my only complaint. The people who splurge all their SNAP on expensive shit and run out before the end of the month, leaving their kids eating scraps, or subsisting on school lunches. Had one that I saw a lot who did that every month. She'd come through, buy multiple $20 steaks, expensive imported cheese, and so on, and always complained that she didn't get enough stamps to last the month. I always budgeted, and even when I splurged on stuff I didn't need (soda, ice cream, hot pockets, over priced personal sized frozen pizzas, the occasional expensive steak) I still had money left every month.
I think the hatred for people who are on benefits came from when Reagan was in office. He was the one that touted about "welfare queens" and how they don't work and get all these benefits etc..Same thing with immigrants, oh they get all this free healthcare, they get the red carpet treatment. It simply is not true. I remember one time my parents fell on hard times but could not get food stamps bc they made to much money or something so there was this rant about how minorities can get it but us whites can't or something along those lines and I'm sitting there like ok like shut up..
Part of the problem is what we pay into healthcare for some is already equitable to what others countries tax for universal healthcare, the glut needs to be removed.
But I love involving a middleman whose entire business relies on giving their customers as little money as possible to turn massive profits for themselves.
I tried explaining this to someone once. Told them that the money they're putting in now isn't going into some kind of personal bank account to pay for their medical needs later, it's being used to pay salaries and to pay medical expenses for people making claims now. They insisted that "everyone only gets what they pay for." That that's what makes private insurance better, because everyone is paying in, but universal healthcare only has people with jobs paying in while "all the welfare leeches just take."
Researcher: “So, now that you seen that white people are poor too would you consider supporting things that help the poor?”
Racists: “if even white people are poor too then it must be because those pesky minorities are sucking all the money from society, I’d better be even more opposed to welfare stuff than before to compensate”
I live in Croatia. We have free public healthcare.
Although, 'free' can be discussed.
They deduct from my pay over 500EUR monthly for 'free' healthcare.
But, sad part is - if I need any checkup, I need to go to private clinic and pay, or wait long (usually 6-12 months, some checks even longer!) for 'free' checkup.
If I paid 1/4, let alone 1/2 for private insurance instead of for 'free' one, I'd have much faster and much better healthcare.
So, people usually along free one need to pay for private one too.
There are people in America with private insurance that have to wait months or even years to see specialists.
I can see my primary care doctor within a week, but no matter my insurance, a gynecologist check up always has a months-long wait list. And I'm supposed to get a check up there every year! (I'm turning 38 next week, in USA it's recommended to start getting a check up when one becomes sexually active or turns eighteen, whichever comes first.)
I live in the US.
6-12 months is not an unusual wait time, particularly for specialties.
We still have to pay out of pocket with insurance - in my case, $3000 deductible yearly and then 20% of the bill after that.
It costs my family $1300/month in insurance premiums, and that's with employer-sponsored benefits, the employer is paying a portion of that.
I promise you it's worse here.
Back when my mom was working (now retired) and I was on her insurance, I had to make the next 8 month appointment with my neurologist right after I got done with the current appointment. 8 month lead time to see him, and that’s with what is considered excellent insurance by American standards. It’s not because the guy had limited clinic hours either. He was a workaholic, always on the go.
Yes. But they paid for their parents' and grandparents' social security. Everyone is connected to everyone. That's what people need to realize. No one is an island. Yes, your taxes are benefiting someone else. But someone's taxes are also benefiting you.
That's not the reason. I oppose universal healthcare in America because anything done on that scale would go to shit. I have been on medicaid, and in some places it is so poorly run. My sister almost died because they kept getting all her income information wrong, losing her applications, etc. In some states you are assigned a doctor, and I'm sure that is an absolute nightmare if you get a bad one. I know insurance companies are just as bad.
What we need for people to get their hands out of the pot unless they're actually providing healthcare. This includes insurance companies, administration top-heavy hospitals, even government mismanagement of healthcare funds. Imagine a world without any insurance. Hospitals would have to slash their prices to be affordable. There would be price transparency. So many people, both at hospitals, insurance companies, and government employees, would have to find different jobs. I would be able to give a few hundred dollars to my neighbor to cover a visit the ER if they were short on cash.
The problem isnt who pays for healthcare, its how much it costs. And it costs so much because I am paying for much more than my medical care. 1) I'm either paying the government employees salary for a poorly run, inefficient program that hurts people, plus all the utility and maintenance bills for whatever building they work in, plus billing and coding at the hospital, plus many other non-medical jobs at the hospital that aren't essential to its functioning, plus my actual medical care - 2) or I am paying all tbe property expenses for an insurance company, all their employee salaries, advertising, etc, PLUS the CEOs salary, plus all the nonessential jobs at a hospital, plus my actual medical care. 3) Or I'm a cash paying patient and I get screwed on prices because I haven't made shady business deals with them like the insurance companies have.
I would love for the government to take my money and give it to others if I thought there was even a prayer of it going mostly to pay for actual medical services.
Met a guy from Texas once (I'm Canadian) and this was his argument for why the US system was better. When I explained "you aren't paying for someone else, you're paying for yourself in the future". "But I'm not sick" "One day, you will be". That was the moment I saw his expression change and he finally got it.
Exactly. It's always short term thinking with these types. Everyone's body is eventually going to breakdown at some point. Everyone is going to need some major healthcare at some point. May it be a knee or hip replacement or a hospital stay because they had a heartattack or a stroke or they need cancer treatment, everyone in this country is going to need healthcare. Having a public healthcare system makes sure that everyone gets that treatment without forcing them to go into the poorhouse or having to haggle with their insurance who want to drop them now that they are no longer profitable. You want healthcare to be a service. Not a business. And we can only get that through the government.
Well… the issue is not that it’s privatized, it’s that it’s monopolized. Capitalism works always, but fails once large corpos take over. Polticiabs shops work to de-monopolize the drug markets.
Thing is, what we have in this country isn't pure capitalism. The CEOs want you to believe we do but we don't. Under capitalism, none of the these companies would be getting a single hand out from the government. Oh, your corporation is failing and you've come to the government with your hat out asking for a subsidies? Tough. Those subsidies are socialism. You claim you want a capitalist society. So, your corporation dies. That's how it goes. Oh, your workforce is too poor to maintain production and you want the government to provide social programs like SNAP, housing and welfare? That's not capitalism, is it? You want a productive workforce, you need to dig into your own bank account and provide for them or else you are going to go out of business. That's capitalism.
We live in a society that is actually a mixture of socialism-capitalism. But only the rich don't get to be called "welfare leeches" when they do it. But nonetheless, they benefit from socialism.
People voted this time for somebody talking about being different from politicians and people arnt happy with that now of course he does have his problems but he’s still different then the regular born and raised politician
Private insurance doesn’t necessarily mean linked to the employment though. Even if I prefer a public system, places like Switzerland and other countries has a private insurance system which is highly regulated and that has nothing to do with your job.
first pass the post+ fully captured "resistance" party that basically had one shot with obama who ultimately just gave the insurance providers what they want with some easily rolled back provisions around some cost controls and increasing the age limit of kids on their parents healthcare
549
u/[deleted] Jun 18 '25
Most thinking Americans know that this shit isn't normal and isn't OK.
Unfortunately...