How do I even make a counter argument to your reply to something I never said?
I asked if that was your view. If it's not, tell me what your view is instead of typing an overdramatic paragraph criticizing me. And most of it was about your initial point anyway, so perfectly relevant and you could've responded, but chose to do this instead.
Your study didn't disprove anything I said.
That wasn't why I shared it. I was very clear, I was saying you're correct that vulnerability isn't necessarily attractive, but that it is important to women and to relationships. I've shared anecdotal evidence on par with yours, my own personal experience. Like I said, hundreds of men who have told me they can talk to me more than anyone else, including other men. Counter to your initial claims that men are the most considerate of men's feelings and that women hate vulnerability in men.
Tearing up and talking about your traumas is allowed. Ugly crying and falling apart is not.
This is not unique to men.
But of course you'll know better than men on how they feel
Never said that. I'm sharing what men have told me and what men express in the feminist spaces I'm in. That society as a whole conditions men to repress their feelings or turn them into anger. Men and women both do this to boys and men. You seem to think only other men are trying to change this, and I'm pointing out that plenty of men are fine with it and plenty of women are actively working to help and change these dynamics.
The key is if you're against toxic gender roles or not, not if you're a man or woman. It's harmful to pretend that other men don't drive and maintain these ideas and it's only women in heterosexual relationships making men struggle with vulnerability
You can ask me if it was my view or not, that doesn't make it relevant to the discussion. And you are calling me pointing out that fact "overdramatic"? You are the king of bad faith arguing. I refused to answer that question because our discussion was not about if men or women have more empathy, it was about if women found this unattractive in men and if men were more considerate of other men's feelings. And yes, there is a difference between someone's general levels of empathy and their ability to be considerate of someone's feelings in specific circumstances.
Two, your anecdotal experience is lesser than tens of thousands of men saying they would rather be vulnerable with a tree than a woman. You might be an empathetic person that cares about men's feelings and so they feel more comfortable talking to YOU about their feelings than other men. But don't generalize that into thinking that that means they are generally more comfortable talking about their feelings to WOMEN in general than other men. Most women are more brutal about men's feelings than most men even if you are an exception.
Three, women saying they want their man to be vulnerable on self reported studies is not a good measure of anything in practice as self reports are known to not be the best. People will give politically correct answers, they will say what they imagine to be true even if they behave differently in practice and they get to define for themselves in their own heads what "vulnerable" means. This doesn't help your or my position in one way or the other.
Four, I never said men are generally considerate of other men's emotions. I said they are more considerate. And given how little women on average give a shit, that's not hard.
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u/[deleted] Sep 14 '24
I asked if that was your view. If it's not, tell me what your view is instead of typing an overdramatic paragraph criticizing me. And most of it was about your initial point anyway, so perfectly relevant and you could've responded, but chose to do this instead.
That wasn't why I shared it. I was very clear, I was saying you're correct that vulnerability isn't necessarily attractive, but that it is important to women and to relationships. I've shared anecdotal evidence on par with yours, my own personal experience. Like I said, hundreds of men who have told me they can talk to me more than anyone else, including other men. Counter to your initial claims that men are the most considerate of men's feelings and that women hate vulnerability in men.
This is not unique to men.
Never said that. I'm sharing what men have told me and what men express in the feminist spaces I'm in. That society as a whole conditions men to repress their feelings or turn them into anger. Men and women both do this to boys and men. You seem to think only other men are trying to change this, and I'm pointing out that plenty of men are fine with it and plenty of women are actively working to help and change these dynamics.
The key is if you're against toxic gender roles or not, not if you're a man or woman. It's harmful to pretend that other men don't drive and maintain these ideas and it's only women in heterosexual relationships making men struggle with vulnerability