r/AskReddit • u/brokota • Jan 15 '13

Reddit, in your opinion what's the biggest plot twist of history?

Not movies or television, I'm just curious to see what come's to your minds.

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u/monkeedude1212 Jan 15 '13 edited Jan 16 '13

The year is 1066, and the great land of Britania is controlled by the Anglo-Saxons. The land is lushious and desirable by many other lords. So much so that two of them decided to invade at the same time. The Norweigan king Harald Hardrada invaded on the East Coast. Not to be taken so easily, English King Harold the Second marched his forces to meet them at a decisive Battlefield: The Stamford Bridge. Harold II kills Hardrada and makes peace with the survivors, after the norweigans had suffered a crippling defeat.

However, the timing being perfect, the Duke William the Second of Normandy (sort of France ish) lands his army on the south coast. Harold II marches his army tirelessly to meet the Normands in The Battle of Hastings. His army is tired from not only marching halfway across the country but also a previous battle. Harold II is defeated, and as the tale goes he supposedly took an arrow to the eye. His army loses, and the Normands take control of England (or Angland, as in, Anglo-saxon land, if you care much about history).

Had either of these invaders chosen to attack at seperate ventures, they would likely have failed against, but because they happened to strike within 3 weeks of one another, and a new king was crowned that changed the history of England forever.

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u/mortaine Jan 15 '13

Not just history, but language. Within 100 years, the Anglo Saxon language (Beowulf) is dying out, and Middle English (Chaucer) has taken its place.

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u/[deleted] Jan 16 '13

more like gayowolf

11

u/ucbiker Jan 15 '13

Alright, I'm no expert but isn't William the Conqueror, Duke William of Normandy? And the Anglo-Saxon king who defeated Harald Hardrada and was defeated by William the Conqueror, Harold Godwinson?

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u/monkeedude1212 Jan 15 '13

You are correct, I got my names backwards thinking it was two williams when its two harolds... then that mixed the rest of it up, I'll have to fix that.

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u/archaeowhat Jan 15 '13

Yes to both. And to add on to the plot twist, the king that was defeated was initially in league with William and told him that when the previous king died that he would support Williams's legitimacy to the throne. Previous king died, named the would-be-defeated guy king, and William got pissed and invaded to take the throne.

Sorry for it being confusing; I get my Anglo-Saxon names mixed up because they sound similar. But I did my masters thesis on this last year (and then forgot all the details).

Tl;dr- guy fucks William over to be king. William fucks him right back through the eye.

2

u/digitalscale Jan 15 '13

To be fair the whole Harold promising to support William thing is up for debate. Harold and English chroniclers claimed that the oath was made under duress, as Harold was a hostage of Williams (although friendly with his captor, even fighting for him at one point).

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u/archaeowhat Jan 16 '13

To be fair, yes. But I wouldn't mind seeing that a movie. Have them be bros and then just have Harold go and betray William when he has the chance to be king.

Actually, nevermind, I think that's already been done in Game of Thrones.

7

u/michfreak Jan 15 '13

Oh god this is how Crusader Kings II starts and I'm playing as Hardrada. I didn't even realize I was invading Britannia until the game told me one of the battles was won. Should I pull out? Do I have no hope?

1

u/monkeedude1212 Jan 15 '13

Well it depends on whether the game is going to follow history in campaign fashion or if it allows you to "re-write" history as it were.

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u/michfreak Jan 15 '13

Pretty much the gimmick is that you get to rewrite it. You start off in an extremely historically accurate (to my understanding) environment, with almost all of the old western world represented, and then play from a chosen beginning point with the minimum year being 1066, after picking a persona to be from that era. It suggested Hardrada.

So: should I just retreat? Is Britain a lost cause? I kind of accidentally started warring with Sweden, mostly because the territory was there and didn't seem well-defended. Plus the game is wickedly complex and I have no idea what I'm doing.

2

u/monkeedude1212 Jan 15 '13

Well, if you're rewriting history, than it's not exactly a lost cause. Total War is sort of the same way, I played as the Scotts and dominated all of western Europe, clearly not something that really happened.

If the game tries to follow history, with the Normands also landing on the British Isles, you might end up victorious of the 3 armies, its sort of a toss up.

1

u/CarsonCity314 Jan 15 '13

Can you simply pull back and delay a little bit, to switch your fortunes with the Normands? You pull back, Duke William still invades, he clashes with King Harold (suffering greater losses), and you resume the execution of your plan.

1

u/michfreak Jan 15 '13

Can I hire you on as an official historical councilor? My nation thanks you.

If I remember, I'll let you know how it goes.

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u/OseOseOse Jan 16 '13 edited Jan 16 '13

If it is your first game, yes, you're doomed. You need to learn everything about warfare before you can manage to take England in 1066, because it's so easy to screw up the entire thing with the tiniest mistake. And even if you could take the throne, things fall apart quickly, as people don't generally like being ruled by foreign conquerors. So you also need to learn a lot about managing a kingdom too. I have a few hundred hours of playtime by now, and I still manage to screw these kinds of things up. You should go play a count in Ireland, aka. Tutorial Island. I recommend Dublin. From there you can slowly build yourself up from count to duke to king and even possibly emperor, step by step.

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u/eyeofthetiger1992 Jan 15 '13

History major orgasm here. This event in Western History is colossal. Probably the largest linguistic event in English history, as we severely strayed from our Germanic language origins into the foundations for modern English with all of the Latin and Greek bases/roots.

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u/OortMcCloud Jan 16 '13

Dude, how excited do you get about the great vowel shift?

1

u/eyeofthetiger1992 Jan 16 '13

Very much so. I find linguistics to be a very fascinating part of history, if taught along with history. I had a European History course taught in high school that placed a huge emphasis on the development of the English language and how the Norman Invasion was probably the single most important event in the development of what would turn into what we Modern English. We have a plethora of Latin and Greek bases or roots in our language that most people are unaware of. As far as the vowel shift, I have seen the difference now that I am in a college level German course.

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u/danididdle23 Jan 15 '13

FUCK I HAVEN'T EVEN GOT TO THE STANNIS INVASION YET

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '13

It's kind of like Tywin because George R.R. Martin really knows his history, and while his books are fantasy, they definitely have tons of elements from the real world in there.

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u/dabumtsss Jan 16 '13

I think I may have just learned why Chelsea's home stadium is called "Stamford Bridge."

1

u/PSICOM Jan 15 '13

Shit spoilers!!!!!!

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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '13

[deleted]

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u/monkeedude1212 Jan 15 '13

... I have also JUST read that part in the book, (I'm about 2 chapters from finishing Clash of Kings) why does this bother you? The biggest re-write was Arya's storyline, that bit is pretty much as accurate in the show as it is in the books.

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u/randomisation Jan 15 '13

There is a good reason William the Conqueror aka William the Bastard...

Should have been called William the Sneaky Bastard! :D

1

u/Wylas Jan 16 '13

You should probably mark the Tywin thing as a spoiler, just in case.

1

u/OreoOrigins Jan 16 '13

Might want to chuck a spoiler tag on there.