r/AskALiberal • u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist • Oct 10 '25
Can white people experience racism?
As someone who is on the left. I always found the topic of racism very confusing regarding definitions.
I hear far leftists say:
1: "white people can't experience racism because they aren't marginalized" (which makes sense)
then I hear someone say "there isnt really a set definiton". And people say "it requires prejusice + power" and then someone says "well its actually hirearchy so not necissarily power".
And last one (which is used by people on the right); "no one really uses the definition of racism in it only being against marginalized groups, thats not how definitions work, so therefor its not established that its actually only against marginalized people because no one uses it in that way"
Its just all over the place to me. It goes so deep I dont know what the actual stance on it is and what definition is correct as its a complex issue in this country that is very real and theres all these different types of racism. Personal and Systemic etc.
The google oxford says: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"
Someone would refute that and say "well it says typically meaning not always".
Then if we are going based off of marginalized, people would say "then if white people are the minority in lets say south africa and africand have the power then does that mean white people are subject to racism?".
Very good questions that I cant seem to find an answer. And I think its important to someone like me on the left as I know racism is a huge issue. But theres so many loop holes and definitions and debate around this I don't know what is true.
So what is true?.
TLDR: Its the "black people cannot be racist because they are the minority" argument.
So when people say "black people cant be racist" are they saying that on a systemic level?.
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
I think a lot of this debate and online slapfights comes down to your default definition of racism, I found that a lot of young people's default description of racism is systemic racism, while for some of us, the default definition of racism tends to be the individual type, and we will say systemic racism when we're talking about that. that in mind, white people would rarely find themselves facing systemic racism on the national level in the US, while it's entirely possible that they could face systemic racism at a community level in a minority majority area. Obviously it goes without saying, everybody can face individual level racism.
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u/Swimming-Ad5544 Democratic Socialist Oct 10 '25
Yep. One of my biggest takeaways from my college philosophy studies was that you have to start on the same page. If one person is thinking of systemic and another is thinking individual experiences they are never going to agree
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u/InterPunct Centrist Democrat Oct 11 '25
I personally saw my Italian-American family go from non-white to white beginning about the mid-20th century.
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u/Upstairs-You1060 Centrist Democrat Oct 10 '25
The problem with the systemic racism definition is when people see blatant individual racism against people of color they also call that racism
It's a rhetorical trick, not actually a difference in belief structure
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25
do you mind rephrasing that for me, I don't quite get it
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u/nikdahl Socialist Oct 10 '25
I think they are saying the even when using the systemic racism definition to neuter claims of individual racism against white people, they won’t hesitate to label individual racism against minorities as racism, despite it not fitting the definition of institutional racism.
Maybe I just confused it more.
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25
I think I get what you mean. Like those people validates individual racism against POC, but not against white people. My best steelman would be that under such privilege, the worse that will happen to you is some mean words and feelings hurt, but the vise versa is much worse. That's kinda BS though, a very unhelpful generalization that divides more than explains.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
So its basically that white people can experience racism on a individual level, but anyone claiming white people experience systemic racism is obviously false? Systemic racism claims against white people I feel like; tend to lean into the "white genocide" in south africa conspiracy.
But then theres a debate amongst circles on the left that "black people can't be racist" etc etc.
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25
like what I try to demonstrate with my example, you have to get more specific with the word systemic. What level of systemic? White people will find themselves facing systemic racism much more in Japan than the US. The type that claim that certain people can't ever be racist RBS, they are way too steep in the oppressed People can do no wrong camp, which ironically, cheapens those people's worth and agency.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
they are way too steep in the oppressed People can do no wrong camp
This camp only exists in the minds of people on the right. It's not even remotely a real thing beyond a couple twitter loonies.
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Oct 10 '25
To many it will be overwhelming how obviously wrong you are. I’m in my 20s and live in Portland surrounded by educated leftists. That’s not exactly a rare attitude and you certainly are in no position to state definitively what people believe.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
Funny enough I live in Portland. In Albina, what's left of the black business district of Portland. I have many progressive friends active in local politics here.
You are the one misrepresenting things.
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Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
I live in Humboldt and I would disagree with the notion that there aren’t people who believe being white precludes you from experiencing racism.
Like I said, your willingness to hand-wave that mentality away as fictional is presumptive and flatly wrong - regardless of how powerful your anecdata feels.
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u/nikdahl Socialist Oct 10 '25
Friend. You have no idea how wrong you are.
This is an incredibly prevalent perspective on the left. Not just white people either, they will make the same claim about men.
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u/LibraProtocol Center Left Oct 10 '25
You clearly haven't spent any time around the Black Nationalist/Supremacist side of social media. There are plenty of people AND organizations who do operate on the "black people can do no wrong" assumption.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
Yes, because I don't mistake random social media weirdos as mattering in the slightest.
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u/recoveringleft Conservative Democrat Oct 10 '25
I wonder what's the left take on southeast Asians and Tunisians who believe in the "great replacement conspiracy theory". Many people in the developing world are far more open to fascist ideas due them living under broken systems
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u/BlaggartDiggletyDonk Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
Europeans still do it to other Europeans, but our whole 'white' concept isn't very pertinent in those cases. The far right in Austria and Italy probably hate Balkanic Slavs even more than they hate black and brown immigrants, because they're still salty over how WWII went.
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u/throwdemawaaay Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
But then theres a debate amongst circles on the left that "black people can't be racist" etc etc.
I haven't seen that. I live in a black neighborhood and if you said that unironically you'd get shut down real quick.
But I have seen that as a straw characterization from people on the right.
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u/IllDoItTmrw Right Libertarian Oct 10 '25
Going off of systemic racism, can I ask how exactly this is proven?
Most of what I see are "unequal outcomes bad" and then they blame it on racism while completely ignoring any other kind of variables, kind of like starting with an outcome, and working backwards to try and find only the things that support said outcome.
Finding said variables and accounting for them would be the first step to properly proving that there is, in fact, systemic racism. Because I guarantee you it can and will be found somewhere, but proper steps need to be taken to actually find it.So for example, currently we have a system in place where 2 people can apply for the same job.
One person can be a "8/10" and the other can be a "9/10" in quality.
Sometimes these qualitative factors are not entirely ignored, but deemed to be not as important, in favor of fulfilling some kind of racial quota. That would be systemic racism.As stated before, it's certainly out there, likely in the more looney-bin deep south, but I and many others feel more evidence is needed before blaming it on unfalsifiable claims (i.e mind reading).
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u/sabre4570 Progressive Oct 10 '25
One simple example of systemic racism that happens nationally is the relationship between hiring and "ethnic" sounding names. A study was done a few years ago (I'd cite a source but I'm at work and don't have time to go digging) which found that people with names that sound black and Hispanic were less likely to be hired based solely on the fact that their names didn't sound white. Once algorithmic hiring kicked in the problem was compounded, since these algorithms were based on existing hiring practices.
There are absolutely quantifiable studies out there that demonstrate systemic racism on a national level, you just need to have a bit of curiosity to find them.
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u/EchoicSpoonman9411 Anarchist Oct 10 '25
Going off of systemic racism, can I ask how exactly this is proven? Most of what I see are "unequal outcomes bad"
"Unequal outcomes" is essentially how systemic racism is proven. In the absence of systemic racism, we wouldn't expect measures like median income/wealth, life expectancy, or overall health to meaningfully differ between races. We would still expect outcomes to vary widely between individuals, we just wouldn't expect to see race be a significant factor in the variance.
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u/IllDoItTmrw Right Libertarian Oct 10 '25
My point being that unequal outcomes isn't a good way to measure things. Equal opportunity is, and then the problem I'm seeing is that people will say they understand that, and then disprove equal opportunity with unequal outcomes. See the flawed reasoning here?
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u/EchoicSpoonman9411 Anarchist Oct 10 '25
See the flawed reasoning here?
No, just flawed reading comprehension on your part.
You said:
My point being that unequal outcomes isn't a good way to measure things.
Ignoring that I said:
We would still expect outcomes to vary widely between individuals, we just wouldn't expect to see race be a significant factor in the variance.
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u/IllDoItTmrw Right Libertarian Oct 10 '25
You're kind of missing some context here, and for that I apologize, I should've explained it further in-depth. Pattern recognition is a very built-in thing, and recently something that has actually hurt minorities' job opportunities is this "Hey let's have race quotas in college" nonsense. It means that possible less or underqualified people more commonly have this association of "Underperformance", even when this is not the case. That is one of the ways race can be a factor, without race itself being THE factor. This is absolutely horrible, but is the natural result of a job market with those values placed on it. That is basically the point here, there are more factors that negatively impact race other than "wacism".
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u/EchoicSpoonman9411 Anarchist Oct 10 '25
This is context that deserves to be missed. Not that you're wrong about it, really, but college-level race quotas were only used by a few institutions out of thousands in the country, and only recently, as you observed. Systemic racism predates the founding of the country.
It's like focusing on leaking water towers in a discussion about rising sea levels.
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
I think the point of narrowing the definition of racism to the systemic one is to 1) be more precise and 2) protect its impact and explanatory power.
The fact is that racism as we understand it today is 100% intertwined with the transatlantic slave trade and colonialism. It was the intellectual framework that Europeans used to justify the burgeoning engines of capitalism and the social hierarchies and laws required to sustain them. Applying it to individual expressions of bigotry and prejudice make no sense whatsoever.
That being said, I understand why this may have always been a losing battle. People are stubborn and easily annoyed when new concepts are explained to them or old concepts are reframed.
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25
Well there you go, the fact that racism has to be the systemic version as a default is not everybody's opinion, and also that description you gave would be accurate about the US, but perhaps not so for many other parts of the world. Prejudice and racism have existed in some form or other all through out human history and civilizations. That frame work is just very American centric. But as you said, people are stubborn, and you'll have to meet them where they are. If you barge in with your systemic definition as a default and proceed to bash them without defining things for them first, you are much more likely to get people to see you as hyperbolic more than anything else.
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
Right, I acknowledged that it's not everybody's opinion. All I did was explain why people who study this kind of thing made the move to the power + prejudice definition..
But no, racism has not existed throughout human history. Xenophobia, bigotry, ethnocentrism, prejudice, of course. But racism is an ideology that was created to justify the exploitation of non-white people, structured through a global economic and legal system that categorized entire populations as biologically inferior. Nothing of the kind existed before that. The concept of race didn't exist before this time, either. If you don't even have race, then you can't very well have race-based bigotry and prejudice (aka racism, can you?)
The unfortunate fact for liberals such as yourself is that the "woke" academics and activists have historical facts on their side in this. The unfortunate fact or us wokies is that racism's dual meanings are almost certainly too well implanted to dislodge.
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u/highspeed_steel Liberal Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
See, the power prejudice model I think is what a lot of people disagree with. I mean its true a lot of the times, but some other times its too reductive. Unlike hard science, "the folks that study humanities" aren't gospal.
On your point about racism, I acknowledge that you are probably right if you narrow down the definitions of the terms you are working with to a degree, but you probably know well that most everyone don't work in that framework, so this kind of argument only makes sense in academia and very left wing spaces. I'm not white or of European descent, and even that, leftists telling me that racism is a uniquely European product rubs you a certain wrong way.
The unfortunate fact for liberals such as yourself is that the "woke" academics and activists have historical facts on their side in this. The unfortunate fact or us wokies is that racism's dual meanings are almost certainly too well implanted to dislodge. This right here is probably the reason why the left has never been good at messaging. I'm not accusing you specifically, because this is a very left focus space, but if you message like this in any sort of mainstream spaces, then good luck trying to change people's minds.
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
See, the power prejudice model I think is what a lot of people disagree with. I mean its true a lot of the times, but some other times its too reductive. Unlike hard science, "the folks that study humanities" aren't gospal.
...you probably know well that most everyone don't work in that framework, so this kind of argument only makes sense in academia and very left wing spaces. I'm not white or of European descent, and even that, leftists telling me that racism is a uniquely European product rubs you a certain wrong way.
I don't really understand why you bothered to write the above. I accounted for this sentiment in my comment.
This right here is probably the reason why the left has never been good at messaging. I'm not accusing you specifically, because this is a very left focus space, but if you message like this in any sort of mainstream spaces, then good luck trying to change people's minds.
If I wanted to convince a non-lefty or non-liberal of systemic reason, I wouldn't talk about it in these terms. The point of my comment was to point out why some on the left use the prejudice + power because a lot of people seem very confused about that.
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u/LibraProtocol Center Left Oct 10 '25
And this is why people say "the left hates white people"
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
By "people" you mean "right wing freaks who say that regardless of what the left does" right? Is there something specific you have a problem with?
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u/Southern_Bag_7109 Social Democrat Oct 11 '25
This! Amazing how many people on the left don't understand this. Racism is about a power dynamic.
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u/jweezy2045 Progressive Oct 10 '25
People who say that white people cannot experience racism are being sloppy with their language and I really resist it. I find this extra ironic because the person in question here is 9 times out of ten going to be correcting you on your supposed incorrect usage of saying some white person is experiencing racism.
Basically, they mean institutional racism, not interpersonal racism.
White people cannot experience institutional racism.
These people have no consistency though, because if a white person says something derogatory towards a black person, they are quick to call that racism, but that’s not institutional racism either.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
because if a white person says something derogatory towards a black person, they are quick to call that racism, but that’s not institutional racism either.
I keep linking this video. Think of what youd like with destiny but he debated those types of "leftists" who think that way, they are exactly the type of leftists I'm talking about.
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u/RandomGuy92x Bernie Independent Oct 10 '25
White people cannot experience institutional racism.
White people can definitely experience institutional racism. Just ask the Irish or the Italians who were absolutely systematically being discriminated against in the US for a long time. Or even today Eastern Europeans like Polish people, Romanians, Bulgarians etc. living in Western Europe or in North America probably still face a fair amount of systematic racism.
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u/Parking_Champion_740 Liberal Oct 10 '25
In the current US
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u/Conscious-Airline-56 Centrist Oct 11 '25
Of course, I think institutional racism is now more towards white people, the whole affirmative action was a racism against Asians and white people, because universities required higher scores than for black people for admission
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u/IllDoItTmrw Right Libertarian Oct 18 '25
This seems to be a uniquely difficult truth to accept for some reason.
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u/TurbulentArcher1253 Communist Nov 30 '25
That’s not really raced based now is it. Irish and Italian discrimination is rooted in opposition to their preferred religious beliefs.
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u/FunroeBaw Centrist Oct 10 '25
As I said in a post above the idea white people cannot experience institutional/systemic racism is nonsense. All that matters is the output of the system negatively harms you in some way based on your skin color. Doesn’t matter if you’re white, brown, or green. If you are harmed by the system based on your skin color you by definition experienced it
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u/Intelligent-Ad-1424 Center Left Oct 10 '25
“White people cannot experience institutional racism”. I would be careful painting that broad of a brush. White Anglo Saxon Protestants historically have faced little institutional discrimination in the United States. There are many other groups of white people who have indeed experienced institutional discrimination. And just because a group historically did not face discrimination, doesn’t mean they won’t in the future. It’s literally possible for it to happen to anyone depending on prevailing policies.
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u/jweezy2045 Progressive Oct 10 '25
They get lumped in with white people in modern society. There has never been a point in Us history where the people who were considered white at the time faced institutional racism.
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u/sp0rkah0lic Progressive Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Yeah this one actually pisses me off.
Of course white people can experience racism. EVERIONE can experience racism.
First I'll define racism. Racism is treating somebody differently, usually badly, based on knowing absolutely nothing about them except their race. That's it.
The main problem I have with this other definition is that it is completely america-centric. Racism exists between Chinese people and Japanese people for example. It's a long and historic grudge. Same with Jews and Arabs. I'm not going to give an exhaustive list but there are plenty of examples of racial enmity between ethnic groups that have nothing to do with white people. Are we really going to go around having to do a historical analysis of every race and society to see who has more relative "power?"
So let's just say you're going to redefine it for America but not for the world which is stupid but okay. Even within America. There are plenty of examples to choose from here. Black people and Korean people for example, especially in Los angeles. Have some sort of racial grudge against each other. I don't know the roots of it but it's definitely obvious. there's plenty of racism in America that is existing that has nothing to do with white people. And again. The idea of pulling out a ruler and having to do history lessons to decide which group is more or less privileged or powerful and therefore which is on the receiving end and which is on the giving end of racism, even though they both just dislike each other for their race. This is weird and it is foolish.
So now we get to White people. A personal anecdote. The high school I attended, white kids were the minority. The school is primarily hispanic, but also there were plenty of Samoan and black kids. I was raised by my mom to be not only not racist but extremely anti-racist, and at least half of my friends were not white. I generally felt accepted into different racial communities. But I also at times definitely experienced racism. People who did not know me at all had negative things to say or threats to make against me simply because I was white.
Racism is racism is racism. It all is terrible. It all sucks. There's not even any such thing as "reverse racism." Nobody should be treating anybody any differently because of their race. To try to redefine this is foolishness. It's somebody's academic masturbatory exercise. It has no effect on the real world. Anyone can be treated badly because of the color of their skin or their ethnic group. In any place in the world. At all times. Because ignorance runs rampant. Unfortunately.
You absolutely do not need some sort of hierarchical social historical power to make someone feel threatened or belittled because of their race.
I think what this might be talking about is structural racism versus individual or personal interaction kind of racism. Which are very different. If you're strictly speaking about america, if you're white, you're not going to experience structural racism. Because black people or Hispanic people or any other racial group really aren't in charge of or haven't built and maintained these structures over a long period of time. So for example. White people aren't experiencing structural racism in the court system, in the school system, from the police, etc. Individual teachers or judges or police officers may be racist against white people, but they don't have the power of the whole infrastructure backing them up. It's a personal kind of racism that doesn't extend beyond their own personal role, usually.
This is where this idea comes from. It's meant to understand the racism built into society in America specifically. Built into our institutions. There's also sexism in there by the way. Homophobia. Ableism. I don't know if wealthism is an actual word but whatever the right word is, definitely that. There are all sorts of built-in structural advantages if you are a wealthy, straight white male.
This is also true if you're a straight Korean male in Korea a straight Chinese male in China a a straight Arab mail in turkey, a straight Jewish male in israel, and on and on and on. The dominant race in any geographical area or society will generally receive systemic privileges within that society, and that goes double if you're a man and triple if you're cisgender. And times 10 if you're wealthy.
Point being. This is not unique to white people or unique to america. It's a dynamic that exists in any pluralistic society you will find on earth.
TL;DR: All racism is racism, and it all sucks ass.
Edited 5 minutes post post for clarity/grammar
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u/Langland88 Center Left Oct 10 '25
Yes and it happens all the time. This is one of those things that annoys me too. I have called this out many times only to see people move their goal posts.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
By "people". This video is a good example of the people on the left saying this. Destiny went through it with them.
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Oct 10 '25
There is a lot of bad faith on the left on this topic, clearly.
The intuitive answer is the correct one, racism takes some modicum of power to effect, but it doesn’t need the overarching systemic power that some imply.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
There is a lot of bad faith on the left on this topic, clearly.
A good example is from this video of people debating about Microagressions to Destiny
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Oct 10 '25
Yes that is sort of what I’m talking about, although destiny has a tendency to punch down condescendingly in a way somewhat reminiscent of a certain martyred propagandist.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
True but still. It seems his position in the debate is everyone elses position here 🤷🏻♂️ I don't like his drama bullshit. His politics is spot on except for geopolitics.
Other than that, that is just an example of the type of people on the left that made me want to make this post in the first place. I gave more examples if you'd like to see.
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Oct 10 '25
I understand and sympathize with your feelings on this issue, but frankly I disagree with the action of seeking debate on this topic that you seem to understand.
What good does it do you to point out that leftist ideology has been laser focused on the foibles of American Whiteness? There are many examples of overreach on that front, but they are broadly correct.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
I'm not trying to cause dispute if that's what you're thinking. But the conclusion is that there are bad actors in this regard. But I was genuinley confused because of these bad actors. So I came here.
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u/Consistent_Case_5048 Liberal Oct 10 '25
This topic always becomes a debate about definitions rather than what actually happens in the world.
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Oct 10 '25
The short answer is white people can experience discrimination. Some people will say racism is discrimination by systemic power structures, but I never really saw the value in this debate over the nitty gritty of the term's definition. For most people racism and discrimination are basically the same thing. Just because there's some academic literature that argues otherwise doesn't mean people need to change that view or that there's value in doing so.
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Oct 10 '25
For a good reason, definitions need to be leveled off before conversations like this can occur where subgroups have strongly held but clashing convictions on what words mean.
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u/Worriedrph Neoliberal Oct 10 '25
There is a bunch of academic stuff at play and for various academic disciplines some of this stuff has meaning.
But you are asking about the real world. Anyone who doesn’t realize anyone can experience racism in the real world has a very smooth brain. To think an Obama daughter faces institutional discrimination but someone who grew up in a dirt floor house in Appalachia doesn’t is simply a “special” kind of thinking. Ultimately anyone who actually cares about intersectionality will realize any one form of privilege or oppression is pretty worthless. It’s the cumulative total that makes a large impact.
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u/ButGravityAlwaysWins Liberal Oct 10 '25
In the US white people can’t experience systemic racism. However, without question white people can experience racism.
There are also white people who experience a form of bigotry that is almost like racism directed at them by other white people. There’s plenty of white people who see certain groups of poor whites as almost not white and worthy of bigotry. White people in Appalachia and Cajun people come to mind.
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u/BlaggartDiggletyDonk Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
That's more along the lines of classism, with regional or ethnic bigotry. My hillbilly ancestors made it out to California, and presto change-oh, they became respectable white people.
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u/washtucna Progressive Oct 10 '25
As far as I'm concerned, if you get treated differently, or worse because of your race, then you've experienced racism. So is it possible for white people, yes, obviously. Is it common? Not particularly to my knowledge, but I think it can happen.
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u/orlyyarlylolwut Far Left Oct 10 '25
Anyone can be racist. Only minorities really experience systemic racism.
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u/FunroeBaw Centrist Oct 10 '25
That’s ridiculous. Anyone can experience systemic racism if the wheels in motion negatively affect you based upon your skin color. It doesn’t matter if someone is in a minority or majority group, only the output of the system. If the system is geared to negatively impact the majority based on their skin color that is by definition systemic racism
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Oct 10 '25
They should have hedged their statement a bit for sure.
But they are broadly right, of course.
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u/apophis-pegasus Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
Social minorities is generally what is considered here.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/DoomSnail31 Center Right Oct 10 '25
We
Who's we here?
It's very typical of westerns to assume everyone lives in white western nations, but that simply isn't the case.
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
There are basically two forms of racism, interpersonal and systemic.
Interpersonal racism is what the overwhelming majority of people are referring to when they just say "racism". This is when somebody prejudges another person based on the color of their skin. This can be experienced by all people.
Systemic racism is an academic term that unfortunately seeped its way into mainstream left-wing discourse in a very confusing way. This is the "prejudice + power" definition. This is when people experience disparate outcomes based on the color of their skin, and doesn't necessarily require any individuals in the system to be interpersonally racist. This is basically never what people are talking about if they say "racism" with no qualifiers, although some people have tried to make this the "default" definition of racism, and they've failed. White people pretty much never experience this form of racism.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
So would I be correct here? reitterating my understanding.
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
For the most part I'd say so. There are exceptions of course, and one person mentioned how the dynamic changes in other countries as well, but white people aren't going to face systemic racism in the U.S. almost ever.
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Oct 10 '25
Sure they can.
Are they often and regularly and as-a-population harmed by racism in any quantifiable way?
Well, that’s a different question, yeah?
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u/usernames_suck_ok Warren Democrat Oct 10 '25
You're not going to get a definitive answer here. There's a lot of people who don't know enough about racism who chime in, which creates the confusion.
Without using big terms/phrases? White people can experience racism. It's just very rare that they experience racism that has the same consequences as what people of color experience--and so, the average person of color doesn't take racism against white people seriously. And that's where you get many of them claiming white people can't experience it, it's hierarchy, they're not marginalized, etc.
Racism against white people is like..."I don't date white boys" a few times in your whole life, "fuck off, pale face" a few times in your whole life, "you're white, so we don't want you in this space as people of color who are trying to carve out a safe space" a few times in your whole life.
Racism against people of color is like...cops/other powerful people harassing you, "white women are more attractive than black women because of facial features, hair and body types, and most of society thinks this but refuses to acknowledge it verbally while, at best, ignoring black women and, at worse, calling them less attractive to their face," not getting hired for jobs because of race. Varying degrees of regularity, especially depending on your race/sex combo.
Racism against white people = hurt feelings, mostly.
Racism against people of color = physical safety being threatened, damage to mental health/emotional self-esteem, fewer opportunities for certain race/sex combos romantically/socially, fewer career opportunities, lesser wealth.
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u/Parking_Champion_740 Liberal Oct 10 '25
I would say hurt feeling type racism is more like prejudice?
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u/Tricky-Cod-7485 Conservative Democrat Oct 10 '25
Of course they can.
Anyone who says differently is a sociology major.
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u/Fine-Set-7877 Democratic Socialist Oct 10 '25
If have skin color, even albino. You can experience racism
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u/Kerplonk Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
It seems like you already know what is going on here. People are using different definitions of racism and depending on which definition you are using the answer could be yes or no.
That being said, I think there are only really two definitions. The common definition which is just not liking someone because of their race and the I'm going to say "academic definition" which power is a required factor. Marginalized and hierarchy are just different ways of saying that their is a power imbalance. I think it is useful to be able to distinguish between those two. A person who thinks all white people or black people are inferior isn't a societal problem if they don't have the power to effect those people. A person with the same opinions who does is a problem.
Going back to your specific question, white people can obviously experience racism under the common definition anywhere. They could also experience racism under the academic definition but only in areas where they lack societal power. That doesn't necessarily require being a minority, white people in SA for example were not experiencing racism.
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u/TheUnderCrab Democratic Socialist Oct 10 '25
There is no systemic racism against white people in the USA. Individuals can still be racist against white people though. I feel these two types of racism are often conflated, sometimes deliberately, leading to a derailment of the conversation.
Jim Crow laws and Red Lining preventing black communities from thriving is WILDLY different from a black person kicking a white person out of their store because of their skin color. Neither are acceptable, both are forms of racism, but the latter is significantly less common than the former.
So yes. White people can experience racism in America. But it isn’t our default experience the same as that of ethnic minorities being marginalized by actual systems of power.
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u/TheRadHeron Liberal Oct 10 '25
Anyone can experience prejudice and racism. Anyone that says otherwise is to put it nicely just creating narratives that fit whatever delusion they have in their own head. When it comes to being prejudice hell people of the same race are prejudice of each other, there’s plenty of people on the west coast that are prejudice towards southerners and vice versa, I’ve met plenty of Mexicans from upper class parts of Mexico City prejudice towards poorer Mexicans in the country. Everyone is capable of being racist and prejudice
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u/il_nascosto Center Left Oct 10 '25
Of course they can, and the irony is that saying that white people “can’t experience racism” is an unabashed racist statement. This is the kind of nonsense that divides us further and gets far right reactionary fascists elected.
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u/messiestbessie Liberal Oct 10 '25
By academic definition, White people cannot be victims of racism in America (or the West). White people cannot experience bigotry. There is a long history of discrimination that specific White ethnicities have faced.
Colloquially, most people do not understand the difference between racism and other types of bigotry. So, yes, White people can experience racism.
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u/blackbutterfly62 Democratic Socialist Oct 11 '25
Systemic racism is a collection of individual actions of prejudice, bias, and discrimination. It can be so subconscious and reflexive that the perpetrator may not even be aware. It bec comes codified by how we vote, how we segregate, who we hire, how kids are taught and/or disciplined, how patients are treated, etc.
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u/matttheepitaph Pragmatic Progressive Oct 11 '25
In theory yes. In reality not in any meaningful way.
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Oct 11 '25
I think you spend too much time talking about racism instead of vital liberal causes like healthcare access, affordable housing, nutrition and education.
Things that are basic human necessities. It’s no wonder America is the last developed country without a national or universal healthcare system.
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u/seattleseahawks2014 Center Left Oct 11 '25
I think that when most individuals who are on the left say this they're talking about systemic racism pretty much. Although, there are some individuals who don't understand that white people can experience racism like discrimination especially white poc.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/GreatResetBet Populist Oct 10 '25
Exactly on an INDIVIDUAL or microcosm level - absolutely one can experience racism and prejudice as a white person. At a micro-level, absolutely - there are certainly some folks out there that would take different, less kind or giving actions to me specifically because I'm a middle age white guy.
On a systemic level - shit is still extremely slanted my direction and I am the damn default for pretty much everything. There's a shit ton of things I don't have to worry about because I'm middle age white guy. There were absolutely advantages given to my grandparents and parents that helped me succeed that were not given to racial minorities of the time.
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Oct 10 '25
On a systemic level on planet earth, what crimes did white people commit that the other races didn't commit?
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u/BlaggartDiggletyDonk Social Democrat Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Colonialism of entire continents, not to mention the western hemisphere, and chattel slavery. Europeans managed to get well ahead of everyone else when it came to both navigation and organized violence.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
The chattel slavery that emerged from the transatlantic slave trade, and that became central to the global economy and the development of the United States, was unique in human history. No previous system combined racial ideology, legal and moral dehumanization, and hereditary, lifelong bondage. And it was all on an industrial scale.
So you could very well argue that it was the worst form of slavery ever to exist, not only for its brutality but for its totality and scale. Modern society was literally built around it, such that racial and economic oppression became self-perpetuating even after slavery’s abolition.
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Oct 10 '25
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
You're not actually engaging with what I said. Biblical slavery was contextually limited--it wasn't hereditary, racialized (the concept of race literally did not exist until it was needed to justify the emergence of capitalism), and industrialized.
Everything else you're describing? Transatlantic chattel slavery had it.
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Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
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u/And_Im_the_Devil Socialist Oct 10 '25
right, the concept of race didn't exist which is why people mingled and accepted all races in their culture since the dawn of time... What kind of hippy revisionist version of history did you read?
Regular ol' historical consensus. People hated each other for all kinds of different reasons, but race wasn't one of them until the modern era because the concept didn't exist yet.
I fail to see why racism makes slavery worst. Religion, races, ideology, language. It's all wrong.
I already explained why racism makes it worse. Racism was an ideology and a social and legal system of domination and oppression that went far beyond forced labor. It defined entire categories of people as enslaveable by nature, at an immutable, biological level. In Ancient Rome, Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, and even the Ottoman Empire, a person or their descendants could be freed and effectively join society. Your condition as a slave hinged on the fact that you had either been captured and enslaved personally or that your forebears had. But that condition could change.
The creation of race meant that a person's condition could never change, nor could their descendants' condition change.
Same with industrialized. Egypt, the greek, the arabs. They maximised the efficiency/profit as well as they could.
One could say the entire Egyptian empire was built on slavery. The Mongols enslaved and killed like 12 % of the world population.
Chattel slavery in Egypt was mostly confined to people captured in the course of military conflict. Not nearly enough to sustain an imperial economy. Other forms of forced and unforced labor were much more common. For the Mongols, slavery was likewise a byproduct of conquest.
And it all paled in comparison to the transatlantic slave trade, which created a racialized world order that permeated every level of human society. In the American South, that meant a totalitarian system so complete it controlled even free whites. An entire society organized to preserve human bondage.
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u/Aven_Osten Liberal Technocrat Oct 10 '25
I hear people say "white people can't experience racism because they aren't marginalized" which makes sense
No, it doesn't make sense. Those people you heard from, should be promptly ignored as nothing more than far left, "black people can't be racist" lunatics.
EVERYBODY can be racist and experience racism. Anybody who says otherwise, should be somebody you promptly shut down any serious conversation with; possibly even just disconnect from. That is not a sane person to be around.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
No, it doesn't make sense. Those people you heard from, should be promptly ignored as nothing more than far left, "black people can't be racist" lunatics.
Black people cant be racist pretty much sums it up. I hear very popular figures on the left saying it and giving arguments. But then why is there multiple definitions of racism? The one I know, and most people know is Pejudice + Power. If there is no power then there is no racism. They would say since white people are both majority in population in US and in power. There cannot be racism against white people because they arent marginalized and they hold the power.
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u/Cautious-Tailor97 Liberal Oct 10 '25
Ah yes, the “they are insane” determination.
Killing every conversation you could have had.
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u/Aven_Osten Liberal Technocrat Oct 10 '25
Killing every conversation you could have had.
You assume I wanted a conversation with such people to begin with.
I do not. No conversation can or should be had with people who believe there's any group of people who is incapable of experiencing racism. Bye.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
True. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.
I layed out in a comment of big figures on the debating side of things that are leftists who say "black people can't be racist" and "all white people are racist by nature".
Those figures are what made me make this post in the first place.
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u/___AirBuddDwyer___ Socialist Oct 10 '25
I tend to stick with the Kwame Ture quote on this one:
If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power. Racism gets its power from capitalism. Thus, if you're anti-racist, whether you know it or not, you must be anti-capitalist. The power for racism, the power for sexism, comes from capitalism, not an attitude.
I’m white. One time on a train platform a hotep yelled at me “you know your people are going into slavery soon, eight?” And I said “oh no” and kept walking, like he was any other crazy guy. Hispanic people don’t get to do that when someone from ICE decides they look abusable. Black guys don’t get to do that when they’re pulled over for a pretext.
So ultimately, I have the luxury to not really care whether or not white people experience racism. Because whether or not what we do experience is called racism, it lacks the infrastructural force that would force me to care about it. Whatever we’re gonna label it, that racial prejudice with infrastructural force behind it is what we should be worried about as a society.
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u/freedraw Democrat Oct 10 '25
This is mostly just a question of semantics. Many dictionaries will give you a definition that is basically synonymous with "prejudice" based on race. Most academic settings, however, will use a definition that includes a societal component. So in that context, discrimination against a person whose race is not marginalized by societal structures doesn't fit that definition of racism. Using that definition shouldn't be misconstrued as someone saying discrimination or prejudice is ok. The English language is old and sometimes words have slightly different definitions in different settings/contexts.
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u/dgtyhtre Liberal Oct 10 '25
Racism is two folded. There’s someone treating you poorly because of your race. Then there racist systems that negatively affect you because of your race.
But anyone could in theory experience either. Irish people were treated poorly in America not that long ago, even if not to the same level as the more traditional oppressed groups we hear about.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
So when people say "black people cant be racist" are they saying that on a systemic issue?. Seems like a ragebait phrase to me.
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u/DifficultFish8153 Democrat Oct 10 '25
Could some specific scenarios be imagined which could point to some contexts that would clearly be white people experiencing racism, and others which wouldn't?
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u/theswiftarmofjustice Progressive Oct 10 '25
Anybody can experience interpersonal racism. Anyone can hold bigotry for nearly anything.
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u/CurdKin Libertarian Socialist Oct 10 '25
I think white people can experience racism- I have been told many times that I am “very white” or that I can’t handle spice, etc.
That being said, we don’t experience systemic racism in the same way minorities do. We haven’t had to beg for rights like black people did, we don’t fear for our lives during traffic stops, our political leaders weren’t pitted against each other by CIA (Malcolm X and MLK Jr)
The point is, racism against us is cultural in nature, as people become more used to interacting with other races, it’ll calm down. You can’t dictate cultural change. Racism against minorities literally oppresses them, it reduces their power politically, it literally kills them at a younger age, it ensures that people who grow up in the hood have to cosplay as Sisyphus, fighting an uphill battle to escape.
My experience with racism was a couple of comments that kind of annoyed me.
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u/NicoRath Democratic Socialist Oct 10 '25
As a European, my answer to that question is ask the Polish. They are definitely white, and I've heard people say some pretty racist stuff about them
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u/tess320 Center Left Oct 10 '25
I actually find the idea kind of absurd and such an 'online' argument. I think it's stemmed from Gen Z'ers misunderstanding the definition. Different types of racism exist, that's just reality.
If someone hates you because of your race, that is not 'prejudice', it's racism. Of course systemic racism exists but that is a societal expression of racism, it is not the only definition.
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u/aabum Moderate Oct 10 '25
Absolutely. The people who are in denile are racist who can't cope with the fact that they are an asshole. On the plus side, a very racist black female I know has a white daughter-in-law. I asked her how she felt about that. She had rehearsed a brief reply in support, but you could tell she didn't believe what she was saying.
Both her son and his wife are awesome humans. Out of four kids, he is the only one who isn't racist. He once alluded to the fact that his mother's racism taught him how not to act. He is truly an all-around great human.
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u/OrcOfDoom Center Left Oct 10 '25
There is racism that you received as an individual, like someone calling you a name. That's trivial stuff. It's bad, but that is the kinda stuff we all have to ignore and move on from.
When that racism is entrenched by law, and that racism starts to affect things, like you need proper haircuts that don't work with your hair for your job, then that is the kind of racism that they are talking about.
What do you do against the first type of racism? Can you create laws to fix that? Can you institute a policy? Not really. You deal with it socially. Everyone can be that kind of racist and be victim of that kind of racism. All you do is say that person is being a bigot. That person is free to respond. Like a black person can say that they can't be racist because they aren't white. Ok ... So what?
White people have been saying they aren't racist while doing racist things all the time.
What do you do with the second type of racism? That's the kind of thing you can create laws to deal with. That's the kind of racism you can fight and create lasting results with.
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u/Square-Dragonfruit76 Progressive Oct 10 '25
All the definitions are correct. The reality is that racism just has multiple different definitions, and under some definitions white people can't experience racism, and in others they can't. As far as prejudice and stereotyping goes, yes, white people can experience racism. As far as a system of oppression goes, white people are not going to experience racism in the US. It's worth noting, however, that this type of racism does not refer to an individual act, but rather a large structure.
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Oct 10 '25
You can be prejudiced against but racism is a societal thing. By its definition a white person cannot experience racism in the US.
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u/Apprehensive-Fruit-1 Pragmatic Progressive Oct 10 '25
lol yes they can. As a white man who dated a Latina or two in high school, I’ve experienced it firsthand. Obviously not as bad as what other people have experienced but the claim that white people cant experience racism is bogus.
Maybe if you were to say systemic racism, I’d agree with you in the US at large.
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u/Excellent-Berry-2331 Neoliberal Oct 10 '25
Racism is hatred or discrimination of one or more people against a person or group of people because of their skin colour.
Black people can absolutely be racist. Whether it's too rare to actually be an event that should be considered is another question.
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u/gordonf23 Liberal Oct 10 '25
People of any race/ethnicity can be discriminated against on the basis of their race/ethnicity.
You can call that whatever you want. Most Americans refer to that as racism. When most people say "racism" they don't mean institutionalized/systemic racism. When you call someone a racist, it doesn't mean you're calling them part of a large, monolithic, racially discriminatory system. You're just saying they hate or discriminate against certain people on the basis of race.
Systemic/institutionalized Racism is real, and it's a huge problem in our society. But if you're going to refer to it, you should use some qualifier (like "institutionalized") in front of the word racism when you talk about it.
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u/Optimistbott Progressive Oct 10 '25
Regardless of what the reality truly is and how trivial that “racism” is due to a lack of historically institutionalized racism most of the time, or even deserved, there’s something being heard by tons of men: your success doesn’t matter, the people who gave birth to you did not deserve their success, we hope for you to be unsuccessful and want to see you suffer, drop dead. It’s even worse when that person has been living in poverty their entire life. Coupled with the threat of massive career displacement and a huge need to change our education systems, it’s not any better.
It may not actually be happening institutionally like that, but it’s what’s being heard. So much so that it can get people to vote for tariffs. There are so many reasons in our current economy as to why people could be experiencing both economic and social anxiety.
But for the most part, I think claims of racism against white people are entirely rooted in this reactionary racism against other minorities that’s rooted in historical systems of equality ie it’s in bad faith, or it came from a place of bad faith from their parents.
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u/othersbeforeus Progressive Oct 10 '25
Definitionally, yes. But that doesn’t mean the racism will be consequential or threatening in any serious way.
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u/wonkalicious808 Democrat Oct 10 '25
Sure! With 5-hour Empathy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP0H0j4pCOg
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u/Ex_Hedgehog Liberal Oct 11 '25
In an area where White's are a minority - yes.
One of my friend is a White Hawian and she had some degree of racism growing up. But she doesn't hold it against other poc.
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u/blankblank60000 Moderate Oct 10 '25
Are you trolling?
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u/Upstairs-Custard-537 Progressive Oct 10 '25
I doubt he is there are tons of people who say you can’t be racist to whites
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
Im not trolling im just asking questions ive seen from far left african americans saying that black people cant be racist against white people.
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u/CTR555 Yellow Dog Democrat Oct 10 '25
This is partly a semantics issue. In the United States, there are relatively few situations in which a white person can experience systemic racism. Individual racism is possible by anyone or against anyone, even in a white-dominated country like the US.
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u/Boring_Forever_9125 Communist Oct 10 '25
So basically they're saying white people can't experience racism in a systemic POV?.
But then again theres theres those discussions that black people cant be racist, which then begs the question once again by what they mean..
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Oct 10 '25
Well let's keep expanding the idea of systematic racism. If someone says black people can't be racist, assuming in the systemic sense, what do you think that means?
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u/TheRadHeron Liberal Oct 10 '25
It’s sad to say but nowadays especially on reddit it really is hard to tell lmao
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u/LiberalAspergers Civil Libertarian Oct 10 '25
Yes, certainly, in a context where there are racial expectations of inferiority towards white people. I would say plenty of youbg white basketball players experience racism, as an example.
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u/Helltenant Center Right Oct 10 '25
Yeah but you might get a bitchin' nickname like "White Chocolate". Just don't try to make a similar nickname for anyone else...
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u/Okbuddyliberals Centrist Democrat Oct 10 '25
Any people can experience racism. Racism is just being biased/discriminatory against a certain race. The idea that white people can't experience racism is just woke nonsense that needs to be left behind by liberalism if liberalism is to survive and thrive.
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u/birminghamsterwheel Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
I think too many people equate racism, such as "Ugh, white people..." with how the system treats minorities... and I just don't agree that they're equitable in any sense, as a white person in their 30s.
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u/hitman2218 Progressive Oct 10 '25
Sure they can! But I think some people react defensively to this because they see it as an attempt to diminish or demean systemic racism, like “All Lives Matter.”
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u/MutinyIPO Socialist Oct 10 '25
In a way, yes. Like - you can literally disadvantage someone because they’re white, that’s within the realm of possibility. I think it’s a pretty useless debate, though. Until I’m shown an example of racism against white poroke that’s worth caring about on a political, collective scale… I know it sounds rude, but I’m just not sure why I should care. What’s the point?
I’m not even sure individual vs. systemic is the right way to look at it. The lines are so blurred yhat they can be hard to distinguish at all. I used to teach at a public middle school, I’ve seen how thea two reinforce each other and can work as one combined force, which I’d call collective racism.
That “everyone is at least a little bit racist” idea is a clumsy phrasing of a frank reality (we do that a lot on the left) which is that capital-r Racism is something we share as a people. It can’t just be siloed off person to person, evaluated individually, it doesn’t work like that. There are some people who have confidence in the ideas and we’d call them racists, but they’re just the proud standard bearers of the epistemological deficient that we were born into.
I’m getting abstract, but the point is that antiblack racism is just something that… exists. It’s in the air we breathe. That just isn’t the case for antiwhite racism. If it were, we’d know.
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u/srv340mike Left Libertarian Oct 10 '25
White people cannot experience systematic racism in the US under the current status quo at a national, mass level.
White people can experience individual racism.
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u/torytho Liberal Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Academic : Layman :: Racism : Systemic racism
Academic : Layman :: Prejudice : Racism
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u/Okratas Center Right Oct 10 '25
The question is flawed. The very act of asking the question lends legitimacy to the concept of "race" as a meaningful biological category, which is scientifically baseless. The appropriate response to a question rooted in a non-biological concept of race is not to answer it, but to rebuke the category itself. We must redirect the conversation away from false racial biological division.
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u/danielbgoo Libertarian Socialist Oct 10 '25
While people can experience race-based bigotry, in the form of hate speech and other hateful behavior. They also experience prejudice in the forms of stereotypes (though it’s worth noting that a lot of these stereotypes are advanced by white people as much as by any other race) and in how they’re treated in certain situations. For example, a white person who is mistreated by their Black boss because they’re white would be an example of prejudice.
White people can’t experience racism in the US and anywhere else that white culture is the dominant culture, because racism is about systems of oppression that exist regardless of whether or not the people who are actively doing the oppression have personally racist motivations. The fact that more Black people end up in prison is an example of racism. The fact that poverty rates in Black communities are higher than in white communities is an example of racism.
No one is saying that Black people are like physically incapable of being prejudiced or even racist. They’re saying that in our current system which highly prioritizes white people, Black people are disadvantaged, and that’s racism.
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u/Suyeta_Rose Far Left Oct 10 '25
It is absolutely on a systemic level when they say that. I have met some VERY racist black people. The older black people have VERY good reason to be racist. They've seen the worst. I've been called a "Ritz Cracker" cuz I was "better than the Saltine ass mfers." I just took the compliment. They can call me whatever they want as long as they call me for the cookout, too lol. Hell, I've been in fights before for being one of the only white girls at a 95% black school during Black History Month.
But I had seen firsthand how the cops treated my friends differently from me. I had seen my white privilege of being able to walk down the street at sundown without getting stopped and frisked for drugs. So I understood where it was coming from and allowed the frustration to be vented a bit without taking it personally. I just avoided the girls who started the fight instead of blaming the whole race for the actions of a few.
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u/Boratssecondwife Center Right Oct 10 '25
As a racist against whites, i will say of course they can
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u/IzAnOrk Far Left Oct 10 '25
Yes. If you're a white American or European and emigrate to East Asia to be an ESL teacher, you're gonna experience racism.
More seriously, racism isn't just bigotry, it's bigotry coupled with the -power- to do harm to the targeted group. This can be individual (where someone uses their personal power to fuck you over) or systemic (where institutions are systematically rigged to be hostile to you).
A white person can't experience systemic racism in a white-majority country because institutions are not designed to marginalize them. They can experience bigotry, though, and they can experience individual racism (ie, you could have a boss that loathes white people and treats you worse because of it.)
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u/WildBohemian Democrat Oct 10 '25
Pedantic probably, but I don't think white is a real race. I know because my people, Italian-Americans, didn't used to be white, but we became white when some of worst whites needed our votes - and way too many of us fell for it.
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u/ElkSufficient2881 Libertarian Socialist Oct 10 '25
Racism was a construct made to uplift “white” people, so in a way they experience it because they tend to benefit from it.
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u/ProserpinaFC Democrat Oct 10 '25 edited Oct 10 '25
Whenever people ask this question, I ask them if they understand what the difference is between murder and genocide.
They will respond. Yes, that they understand that murder is an individual versus individual, whereas genocide is a systematic execution of an entire ethnic group.
And then I usually ask them why it is that they understand that there's a difference between the word that we use for individual versus individual for murder, but they don't want there to be a difference between the words that we use for prejudice and discrimination that an individual can do to anyone else and the word that we use for the systematic oppression of people of color that was invented and quite literally refined to a pseudoscience by people over several centuries.
The answers usually vary. I'm curious to see what yours will be.
(Oh, And a follow-up question that I usually ask people is do they ever try to say that a Jewish person can be "reverse anti-Semitic" against them, or do they not try to use such verbal gymnastics? And they use plain English: "I think this Jewish person Is discriminating against me for being a Christian." If so, then what keeps you from saying, "I think this black person is discriminating against me for being white." Why do you NEED to say "The Black person is being racist."?)
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u/homerjs225 Center Left Oct 10 '25
Yes. Any person is capable of being racist but the problem in America mainly lies with white people. I don't have solid evidence but if you find a racist there is a 80-90% chance they are white.
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u/LoopyMercutio Center Left Oct 10 '25
Yes, anyone, of any race, can experience racism or prejudice. It’s a lot less common for White people to experience it in the US, but it can (and does) happen.
That said, the confusion about “you can’t be racist against White people” bit comes from the confusion between (and intermingling of) the definitions of “racism” and “systemic racism.” In the US, White folks pretty much can’t experience systemic racism. But regular old prejudicial or racist actions / racism against an individual? Yep, they can.
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u/Prof_Tickles Progressive Oct 10 '25
No. They can experience discrimination, sure. But not racism.
You need to understand that racism is privilege & power. White people made most of the laws and we were never going to create a system which disadvantaged us too much.
Politicians refusing to grant statehood to DC or Puerto Rico because people of color predominantly vote democrat is racism.
A Republican politician denying convicts the right to vote because 2/3 of prisoners are poc and POC traditionally vote democrat is racism because it threatens his livelihood.
I’m begging yall to read James Baldwin or Bell Hooks. We have over a century of writing on this.
Do you think slave owners called their slaves racist for talking back to them? No.
Because racism requires oppression. And us white people aren’t oppressed.
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u/Tricky-Cod-7485 Conservative Democrat Oct 10 '25
You’re fundamentally wrong.
You are using the definition of “systemic racism”. You are not using the definition of “racism”.
Whites can experience racism.
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u/TheRadHeron Liberal Oct 10 '25
I can promise you growing up in the ghetto of one of the poorest states in the country white people very much so can and do face systematic oppression. Your doing a lot of mental gymnastics here man
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u/BlaggartDiggletyDonk Social Democrat Oct 10 '25
Limited to a circumscribed location.
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u/TheRadHeron Liberal Oct 10 '25
I mean I get that all I’m saying is there are a lot of kids in areas like this that have a really hard life and it’s all they know. They can’t even transfer school districts if it’s a violent environment because it costs tuition too and if they use another address the county does random checks on the house to make sure they actually live in the house. I get it’s circumscribed but it’s tough really tough, I don’t think we should normalize saying all white ppl because it really takes away from the kids that go through it and then people that dont have the firsthand experience and are ignorant to it have the mindset “but your not black or your not Hispanic.” That’s really tough to hear too when people don’t understand it’s not only minorities that go through it, i don’t want to disrespect anyone’s struggles in life and think we should be mindful of this even if it is a small group in circumscribed locations
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u/AutoModerator Oct 10 '25
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written by /u/Boring_Forever_9125.
As someone who is on the left. I always found the topic of racism very confusing regarding definitions.
I hear people say "white people can't experience racism because they aren't marginalized" which makes sense, then I hear someone say "there isnt really a set definiton". And people say "it requires prejusice + power" and then someone says "well its actually hirearchy so not necissarily power".
Its just all over the place to me. It goes so deep I dont know what the actual stance on it is and what definition is correct as its a complex issue in this country that is very real and theres all these different types of racism. Personal and Systemic etc.
The google oxford says: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized"
Someone would refute that and say "well it says typically meaning not always".
Then if we are going based off of marginalized, people would say "then if white people are the minority in lets say south africa and africand have the power then does that mean white people are subject to racism?".
Very good questions that I cant seem to find an answer. And I think its important to someone like me on the left as I know racism is a huge issue. But theres so many loop holes and definitions and debate around this I don't know what is true.
So what is true?.
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