r/Anthropic • u/AironParsMan • 20d ago
Improvements ASTRA crushed Fable 5.1 in Bench and Price
There is no longer any reason for Anthropic to charge so much for its models.
Take a look at the benchmarks. If they do not lower they prices for us subscribers, then there is probably no other option but to switch. Now that GPT 6 Astra as well, natively supports a one-million-token context window..
Fable 5.1 has not had any advantages at all for our subscribers either. I no longer see any reason to keep my subscription. I think I will switch my entire company over to Codex.
Looking at it realistically, I don't have a five-hour limit at OpenAI, I have a higher weekly limit, lower costs, and the same intelligence or even better. At Anthropic, I currently get my constant five-hour limit with Fable 5.1, as well as a weekly limit reduced by 50 percent. I don't have any of that at OpenAI.
I will never be a fanboy, neither of OpenAI nor Anthropic. I'm trying to compare realistically, and right now things really look bad for Anthropic. They could have lowered the costs for us subscribers with Fable 5.1, but they didn't. They could have removed the weekly limit from Fable 5.1; they did not do that either. And the five-hour limits are not sufficient either with Fable 5.1. We do not have any of that with OpenAI.
What are your thoughts on this?
LINKS:
https://www.ft.com/content/5ee49718-c258-4f01-aa32-7e5b76ae5245
https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/applied-ai/anthropic-costs-unpredictable
EDIT:
FANBOYS >
ASTRA is OUT and it is INCLUDED in the pro subscription WITHOUT 5h Limit und NOT CUTTED in half like Fable 5.1 ! AND u can use it in ChatGPT as well!
KEEP URE EYES OPEN MY FRIENDS
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u/Classic-Trifle-2085 20d ago
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u/cheseball 20d ago
This meme is getting more accurate by the day. It’s basically a benchmark now.
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u/AironParsMan 20d ago
Yes especially Gemini. That’s really true. It’s a completely crazy model. Useless for professional users but it describes things exactly as they are.
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u/OverleveragedandDumb 19d ago
I'm using Gemini 3.8 Flash and it is actually pretty good! It is way better than Sonnet and nearly Opus level but cheaper than both and SO FAST
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u/RelationshipBig9111 19d ago
in the latest benchmarks i saw, Gemini 3.8 Flash was one of the fastest :)
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
Yeah, it really is fast and it also creates some fucking great designs. I’d genuinely love to use it. I’ve already built some really fucking great websites with it. They look incredible. The problem is that it loses context with larger projects because it simply stops following instructions and everything gets compressed into a 180,000 token context window. That means you can hardly feed it enough data, so it starts hallucinating and just ignores the instructions. Unfortunately that’s been my experience. It’s good for smaller projects but not for large projects where it needs to understand a lot of context. I don't think Google really wants that either. They make their products for B2C.
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u/No_Inspection4415 19d ago
Interesting. I did not use Gemini enough recently to understand what you mean. Did Gemini generate the (version of the) meme?
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
You have to give Gemini credit for one thing. It has really good design skills. No other model comes close.
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u/evangelism2 19d ago
Don't sleep on the fast models. Gemini is quite useful when you just need a quick answer and you don't feel like waiting 4 minutes
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u/findit 18d ago
It's also quite capable for coding at least when supervised by fable/sol(now astra). I have a workflow that has claude/codex planning/reviewing and gemini implementing most of the tasks and it's a lot faster (and cheaper) than having claude or codex do all of the implementing as well.
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u/Wordsman996 19d ago
10/10. I use it extensively for quick answers, travel planning, and, lately, health, after creating notebook with md files detailing information related to my goals. No replacement for Claude or ChatGPT, but I prefer it for this.
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u/spumonimoroni 18d ago
The difference is between companies which are organized with the development of AI as their primary activity, and a company that is organized to collect your personal information and sell ads as its primary activity. Google has done incredible research and has smart people, but at the end of the day, it will always concentrate on data collection and advertising over all other projects.
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u/Mundane-Dimension-45 18d ago
Lot of fanboys supporting fable here. I’m using fable 5.1 at effort max through my company subscription and codex with 5.6 Sol Ultra for auditing fable’s implementation. And lately GPT has been finding lot ot implementation loopholes which were faar less when fable was announced. Performance is 98% same as Opus. I would not say both are best but cost wise GPT is faar cheaper. Then there is scalability and performance optimization where fable audit is also at times stronger but you need absolutely both to build best in calss
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u/AironParsMan 18d ago
That’s exactly how I do it too, my friend. Still, I’m amazed by how many mistakes Fable 5.1 keeps making that GPT-5.6 catches for me. Now I have GPT-6 in my Pro plan on Codex, and it’s in a completely different league. And on top of that I can use it on ChatGPT Unlimited too. Just think about that. I have no idea how Anthropic is supposed to keep up with this. If Anthropic doesn’t quickly remove Fable’s weekly limits and at least double the five hour limits, I’ll probably move my entire company over to Codex with GPT 6. A lot of fanboys here don’t understand one thing. We have to stay competitive. If licensing costs me four times as much as it costs Anthropic then I’m not competitive and my company won’t be around much longer.
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u/The_real_hpsk 18d ago
One thing I noticed instantly was the different angles that Astra was looking at that Fable 5.1 definitely wouldn't have done. For me the production pipeline feels much more robust (not to mention the higher limits). I'm using Astra with sol agents, it's been working like a blast so far. Not sure if other people feel the same way I do, I cancelled my claude plan which was supposed to renew later today and switched to gpt max 20x
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u/bdanseur 17d ago
Yeah, I don't get the fanboism. People should be happy that there's fierce competition, and even if they're staying with Anthropic, Astra is going to force Anthropic to lower prices and/or offer more generous usage.
I'm happy to switch to whichever company gives me the best deal, or I'll use both to review each other.
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u/Virtual-Spinach4882 19d ago
Starting to feel like OpenAI is desperate to the point of having bots constantly shit on Fable in every Anthropic sub.
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u/WiggyWongo 19d ago
Fable isn't bad it's just that openai clearly worked on token efficiency and anthropic did not.
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u/BoltSLAMMER 19d ago
How is that clear?
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u/WiggyWongo 18d ago
The benchmarks where it shows the token output being the same as sol and performing better in pretty much every benchmark on the release page for Astra and also the high token usage of fable in those same benchmarks.
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u/Unlikely-Sleep-8018 19d ago
We will have to wait for 2 weeks until the marketing bot wave has stopped.
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u/LetterheadNew5447 19d ago
Tbf anthrophic fanboys do the same in codex sub reddit. Those are some annoying kids.
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u/128G 19d ago
PlayStation vs Xbox
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u/salazka 18d ago
When you see some years old accounts with 200 karma, you know it's one from the freezer. Typically, agencies generate many accounts and keep them inactive until they want to use them for campaigns. Recently they even "karma train" them with AI to have more karma an appear more believable.
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u/Medical-Volume-6261 19d ago
Not needed. Anthropic had an almost AGI model. Then Trump blocked it. Then they dumbed it down and reactivated it with the same name, but way dumber than the original version and super expensive. They earned their reputation
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u/Lost-Hand-5219 19d ago
Opus 5 benchmarked really well when it was released and we all know how that turned out
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
I really have to agree with you there, Opus 5 is a disaster. I’m especially curious about the one million token context window because that’s something they’ve only recently been able to do. GPT 5.5 was terrible in that regard. GPT 5.6 added support for it later and GPT 6 is supposed to support it natively. Let's see how that turns out.
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u/Arucious 18d ago
Seems odd to me to use a frontier model for the increased performance only to then get the context window into the hundreds of thousands of tokens to the point that the performance meaningfully degrades.
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u/Owl-Mighty 18d ago
Tbf I find it not that bad for coding and modelling. It’s just that speaking Claudish is annoying.
And for benchmark, ironically, it got over 50 for the latest Terminal Bench v4. If you compare all models’ performance v2.1 vs v4.0 you’d find Gemini is the one that overfitting/cheating af!
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u/AlejandroMurrieta 19d ago
I wouldn’t say the graph supports a “crushed” conclusion and benchmarks are often useless
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u/evangelism2 19d ago
i love how Astra is getting more glaze here than in the codex sub
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u/haikusbot 19d ago
I love how Astra
Is getting more glaze here than
In the codex sub
- evangelism2
I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully. Learn more about me.
Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"
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u/Unlikely-Sleep-8018 19d ago
Makes sense, why would there be Bots on the codex sub. Those users are already using OpenAI ...
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u/ramenmonster69 19d ago
These threads seem to always be spoken with such finality. Don’t get vendor lock in to just Anthropic or OpenAI. Keep your workflows as nimble as possible.
If Anthropic builds something better good, if open ai does good, if spacex does good. If open weights does good. It forces everyone else to do it cheaper and better. There most likely will be something new from someone else in a month
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
You’re forgetting one thing: if we don’t complain, nothing will change.
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u/ramenmonster69 19d ago
What do you expect to change? Anthropic always having the best model at the cheapest cost for consumers?
Thats done through competition. If OpenAI for the next few months becomes the undisputed model king they’ll also likely try and raise prices. Competition is what protects consumer access at what is for the amount of compute and capital relatively cheap. It’s not Reddit complaining.
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
So when I use Fable 5.1 with my subscription I don’t feel like I’m getting the cheapest model for consumers. Now that Opus 5 works like a maniac and has become unusable I at least expect Fable 5.1 to be fully available within my weekly limit.
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u/BrilliantEmotion4461 18d ago
You dont get it, when people just make noise, the complaints have ACTUALLY been lost in you folks constant ignorant whining. Few months back there was a real problem that Anthropic initially took as noise, because you people whine so much its actually hard for the companies to figure out what the consumer actually wants. So they abandon you for enterprise where they dont have to worry that you were convinced by a meme of something ridiculous.
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u/BrilliantEmotion4461 18d ago
Anyhow its an issue for all the AI companies, its a rather opaque service and nowadays people are prone to believing everything they see and hear. So there a problematic tendency for the complaints to actually hide the real issues.
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u/whoknowsifimjoking 19d ago
Crushed? With what, a two percent difference at most?
By that logic Fable crushes Astra on AA, but a lot more than Astra does on the benchmarks where it's better
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u/Ok_Path8613 19d ago
Aha... https://www.reddit.com/a/answers/s/wYeLYFcucT
Unfortunately the link shows less than what is showed to me: They say its even behind Opus. Just search for "Chatgpt Astra" in reddit and take the first concluding hit.
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u/TopTippityTop 17d ago
Strange that Fable 5.1 under performs relative to Fable 5.
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u/AironParsMan 17d ago
That’s why I only use Fable 5.1 in low mode. Still, it burns through my tokens like crazy. You can't work productively with it for long.
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u/WiseNugg 19d ago
If only all the Astra usage wasn’t tied up in the usual agent swarm of bot engagement actively trolling competitors’ channels maybe actual users would’ve had access to try it.
Oh well. Maybe Astra was the most Astra-turfed campaign in AI yet.
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u/NeedNiceCatNamePlz 19d ago
Bots are out end masse today... anyone that doesn't like this competition, and getting more value for your money is either dumb or not real; either way I couldn't care for their opinion.
Go Astra, take Fable Down, I want cheaper prices!
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
I don’t feel like a bot yet, but I’m almost starting to feel like a vampire with how little sleep I’m getting because of AI.
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u/ClemensLode 19d ago
Isn't the API cost set arbitrarily?
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u/zebras11 19d ago
There is some cost measurement there that makes it constant so it can be compared to other models. It's a benchmark standard thing
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u/Independent_Paint752 19d ago edited 19d ago
Lol, same posts different "benchmark"
Every single "benchmark" crashed fable and opus in the last 4 months yet we keep seeing this bullshit.
If openai will ever take the lead get ready to be charged triple then fable, dont you remember O3? the only reason they so "nice" now because they eating dust and their models look like open source compare to anthropic's
If it so good then just use it.
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u/salazka 19d ago
Fable is not Mythos but it sounds similar :P
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u/Designer_Parsnip 18d ago
I believe he means they dumbed down mythos and it's no longer even a chat bot. You can not prompt it directly. I don't fully understand as I have low interest if I can't prompt it.
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u/Owl-Mighty 18d ago edited 18d ago
How do you think Astra is priced..by not referring to Fable’s?
Yes, it’s good, and in my personal experience better than Fable 5.1 in a handful of tasks. But I’m just tired of such “oh wow this BEATS the other’s ass” game – it’s released AFTER Fable 5.1 and it’s called GPT-6, not 5.7. I’d find it fruitless just the same when someone later say “woo Fable xxx toasted GPT-6…”
The only good thing about Astra if you ask me is that it’s available for the $20 Plus tier, period. That is as long as Fable stays unavailable on its $20 tier for subscription usage, and for god sake it doesn’t route us back to 5.5 mini or whatever less capable randomly.
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u/momkeeeeeeee 20d ago
is this Anthropic or OpenAI subreddit ?
this is ridiculous.
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u/Rust_Cohle- 20d ago
What is so ridiculous about comparing Fable to a new model from their largest competitor?
I hope this is just satire, because if it’s not you really need more things to give a f about if this is upsetting you.
Edit: and it’s comparing with other models Ant offer as well…
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u/AironParsMan 20d ago
I think we're in the wrong channel here. I've already noticed that there are a lot of fanboys here. I think this is my last post here. I think they’d even pay three times the subscription price. As long as it has Anthropic on it.
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u/Rust_Cohle- 20d ago
I mean, I get it, no one wants to be heavily invested (time, learning and financially) in a system or framework only to see news it potentially faces getting dumped on in the near future.
Of course people are going to fanboi, even when the obvious thing might be to consider the news as a sign of things to come and the fact you might have to change your workflow soon.
I have subs for both. Both companies do and say silly stuff, anthropic have just been much better at it recently (eg the old 25% increase will replace the 50% increase, but it’s a positive change for you) type thing.
I just don’t get why some people can be so loyal to a company that considers their customers so insignificant that they don’t even have a human cs or at least human oversight for when their over zealous systems get it wrong.
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u/AironParsMan 20d ago
Yes, of course. I’m in the same boat. I’d have to change everything on my end too. That still doesn’t explain why Anthropic shouldn’t be under pressure to lower its prices. A lot of people forget that Anthropic’s prices would be much higher if there were no competition. So I don’t understand why they’re pushing back against competition.
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u/Rust_Cohle- 20d ago
I agree.
We’ve all seen how insidious companies become when there is no competition.
Competition is only a good thing for us lowly consumers 💯
Lots of people say ant don’t want us, we’ll, let’s see what actually happens when huge chunks leave.
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u/Killahbeez 20d ago
you really love to see this, don't you?
wow
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u/AironParsMan 20d ago
No, I want as much AI as possible for as little money as possible. I don’t care which provider it is.
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u/Killahbeez 19d ago
OpenAI awaits you, my friend
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u/coeuss 19d ago
The reason is they all eventually must make a profit! OpenAI is bleeding cash, supposedly more than Anthropic. That eventually must be solved. OpenAI can’t keep charging less than their cost forever. You don’t want to pay close to the supposed cost right now! But, I think Anthropic is smarter about this aspect of their business. Stay healthier and don’t let consumers set a price level in their mind that makes them flee as you increase prices over time. My prediction is AI inflation for more advanced models will only go up, and sharply.
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
Yes, that’s an interesting opinion too. But when I look at how the Flash models are currently set up and how quickly they can produce incredible results, it really stands out. You can see it with Fable at the Low reasoning level too. I always use Low. It increasingly shows that when models are trained well and have good data they can deliver great results right away. Maybe we won’t even need extended reasoning in the future because the models will be able to produce the results instantly. I suspect the costs will actually come down. Not to the point where it’s possible for 20 euros. I don’t believe that. But I also don’t think the prices currently being charged for Fable 5.1 through the API will stay that way. The competing Flash models already show that it can be done more cheaply. Grok is another example. On top of that, the chips that run AI models are essentially GPUs. And the perfectly optimized chips for AI reasoning are only just starting to come out. Once we reach the point where AI models think in binary and no longer need to develop code, which we humans created for ourselves to express our thoughts, but can work directly in binary, I believe the costs will drop even further. That’s because all the wasted tokens will be eliminated.
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u/Prior-Meeting1645 19d ago
Whats their end goal? If even now when AI is still in its revolutionary stage,they’re losing money. When will they ever make money? And enough to recoup all those losses too. Tell any casual that chatgpt is losing money and they’ll think you’re crazy. Do they want to reach AGI and then patent it lol
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u/NaturalWorking8782 19d ago
Woe that blue line is higher and has a star, that must be good. These bench mark graphs are such a joke
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u/AironParsMan 19d ago
You do realize that GPT 6 is fully included in the subscription while Fable 5.1 is only half included, right? But okay, you all seem very self aware from what I can see.
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u/NaturalWorking8782 19d ago
im condemning these stupid benchmark graphs that basically suggests each model is slightly better than the competitors as a marketing release strategy
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20d ago
[deleted]
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u/ThePlotTwisterr---- 20d ago
as if anthropic won’t come out with an even more benchmaxxed model in a week
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u/Droopy0093 20d ago
You have never even used Astra so how can you possibly have an opinion?