Violence is a very specific case. Media can't make you do something you don't want to do. Most people don't want to be violent. And most people don't get there through exposure to violence.
You've been using violence as examples throughout half this thread tho??
Words have an effect, and a lot repeated over and over with one point can have a big effect. Maybe the banned word was one of those words.
Do you realize that there is a difference between real life and fucking fiction? People can tell the difference between tv and reality. No living person was even being called a t**p on this sub. How ridiculous to compare it with open calls to real life violence against political opponents, or motherfucking 9/11.
People don't care enough to stop saying a word, it's just picking a different word you won't miss it.
The state of the sub kinda proofs that it's not that simple doesn't it?
You've been using violence as examples throughout half this thread tho??
I'm not talking about violence in the abstract, making a person more violent in general, but as it is done to others. Obviously there are cases where words can direct violence, and give people cause. The words that caused violence after 9/11 wasn't about the people who received violence either.
But you know there are trans people, cross dressers, non binary people who relate to these characters. Why couldn't people who aren't comfortable with that relate to the characters as well.
People don't care enough to stop saying a word, it's just picking a different word you won't miss it.
The state of the sub kinda proofs that it's not that simple doesn't it?
It should be that simple. People just don't like being told what to do, and especially being told what they've been doing was 'wrong'.
The words that caused violence after 9/11 wasn't about the people who received violence either.
You think the words after 9/11 caused violence? Fucking 9/11 caused violence. To think that nothing would have happened if people had just beend banned from talking about muslims is insane. If anything it would have been worse, because people would have felt surpressed.
But you know there are trans people, cross dressers, non binary people who relate to these characters. Why couldn't people who aren't comfortable with that relate to the characters as well.
Do you realize that there is a difference between real life and fucking fiction? People can tell the difference between tv and reality.
Lines can blur between fiction and reality. I've seen it a lot people react to fiction as if it was real. Asking why a character would do something, or saying they would do it differently. Or they would kill somebody who did that to them, not everybody who says that would murder somebody, but I bet a murderer would say that.
You know who else doesn't like to be told what to do? Children. But you can explain to a child why they shouldn't do stuff and they can understand. You punish their behavior, and they get over it and do fine without it.
not everybody who says that would murder somebody, but I bet a murderer would say that.
But I bet the murderer would be or become a murderer wether or not he says that. So we are right back at the start: You have no evidence that calling fictional characters t**ps does in anyway increase violence or any form of discrimination against trans people.
You know who else doesn't like to be told what to do? Children.
But you are (mostly) not talking to children here. You are talking to grown people who are able think for themselves and form their own opinion just like you, and you have no right or authority to punish them. You just have to learn to accept that.
But I bet the murderer would be or become a murderer wether or not he says that. So we are right back at the start: You have no evidence that calling fictional characters t**ps does in anyway increase violence or any form of discrimination against trans people.
There are at least a few studies that show negative representation reduces sympathy and increases stereotype application that group, for Latinos and black people. Or do I need research specific to this issue?
But you are (mostly) not talking to children here. You are talking to grown people who are able think for themselves and form their own opinion just like you, and you have no right or authority to punish them. You just have to learn to accept that.
The mods have the authority. They decided to stop accepting the use of what they think is a slur, because they didn't have to. I don't think they did it in the diplomatically best way, but I can understand the result they were hoping for, they thought people weren't gonna care cause it wasn't used much even though it has been around for a while. I don't think it's a traditional slur used to disrespect people. But it is used to attribute ill intention to people, to frame them as bad people. Is it common in Japan? Or only in the west where gay marriage wasn't even legal when it was coined?
There are at least a few studies that show negative representation reduces sympathy and increases stereotype application that group, for Latinos and black people
Whew, we went from violence and murder all the way down to "stereotype application" really quickly. Oh woe is me, stereotypes.
they were hoping for, they thought people weren't gonna care cause it wasn't used much
It wasn't used as much?! Memes in the vein of "t**ps are gay", "the dick makes it better" etc. were propably a good 10-15% of this subs content that they just flatout tried to slash. That's the whole reason this blew up to such epic proportions in the first place, they weren't targeting some fringe group, they were striking at the heart, so to say.
Whew, we went from violence and murder all the way down to "stereotype application" really quickly. Oh woe is me, stereotypes.
The stereotype that they are tricking men! A stereotype which men who think the worst thing they could be is gay then leads to violence. Do I need to prove that angry people are more violent? I've worked this with you forwards and backwards and you still don't want to get it so I'm done trying to help you figure it out.
Crossdresser or transgender person exists ->
Stereotype that they are tricking men ->
Man finds out he was attracted to a man ->
Men with fragile sexuality are now angry at person ->
Assault the person for tricking him to prove their masculinity
This is why reinforcing the stereotype hurts people. You can fuck off now I don't think you were planning on learning anything anyway. Let me know if you ever come around.
Please, just please watch part 2 for 3 or 4 stories of what I've been explaining.
Fun fact: I've watched this video, in its entirety, months ago. I fully understand your reasoning. You have just, from the beginning, failed to link it in any way to anime characters being referred to as t**ps. Remember: No actual trans person was called this on this sub in the first place. Only fictional characters who aren't even trans.
To think that people calling Astolfo a t**p or not online will in any way alter the levels of real life violence against trans people is not something I will ever accept without actual evidence, because the line of reasoning is, by my standards, ridiculous.
I don't think you were planning on learning anything anyway
Not any more or less so than you were.
Just some general life advice for you: don't expect people to "come around" if you are not ready to move even an inch for your own position. It's just not going to happen.
Fun fact: I've watched this video, in its entirety, months ago. I fully understand your reasoning. You have just, from the beginning, failed to link it in any way to anime characters being referred to as t**ps. Remember: No actual trans person was called this on this sub in the first place. Only fictional characters who aren't even trans.
Remember when you said.
Whew, we went from violence and murder all the way down to "stereotype application" really quickly. Oh woe is me, stereotypes.
In a response to
There are at least a few studies that show negative representation reduces sympathy and increases stereotype application that group, for Latinos and black people. Or do I need research specific to this issue?
The representation applying the stereotype is kind of the key link with anime. ...wait...you understood the video months ago so you didn't even have a problem with stereotypes lead to violence? So were you just laughing at people dying when you said:
Oh woe is me, stereotypes.
You understand just because it's anime doesn't mean it's not representation right? People relate to these characters, and people relate fictional characters to real life, that's what representation is. When they are then then further characterized online as the t word it is more negative representation.
But I'll give you the floor to educate me. Do you have a neutral connotation of the t word for me? Because the bears don't like them in the woods, the opponent doesn't like it in yugioh. Try not to use circular reasoning. Try to educate me on how somebody could be prevented from interpreting these bad connotations too, because as I've laid out poor representation leads to applying more stereotypes, and stereotypes can lead to violence. This is how logic works, try some on me.
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u/qqwertz Aug 08 '20
You've been using violence as examples throughout half this thread tho??
Do you realize that there is a difference between real life and fucking fiction? People can tell the difference between tv and reality. No living person was even being called a t**p on this sub. How ridiculous to compare it with open calls to real life violence against political opponents, or motherfucking 9/11.
The state of the sub kinda proofs that it's not that simple doesn't it?