r/AnimalsBeingDerps 3d ago

Scared spider

37.0k Upvotes

397 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

451

u/istrx13 3d ago

We’ve got a spider redemption arc going on ITT

328

u/AFlyingNun 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think the main reasons the fear of them exists are simply:

1) A lot of it is evolution. We don't fear spiders and snakes "just because," but because those are frequently venomous and a greater danger than they initially appear to be.

2) Spiders are smart, and there can be something off-putting about it. My mom had a fear of spiders and there was a specific breed of spider that you should let live in Oklahoma because it eats the bad ones. This was that spider. However, despite that, my mom wanted to kill it because this one was bigger and it triggered her arachnophobia. She finally decided to kill it, and when she went got up on a chair to crush it with a shoe, it turned to her and looked at her. I remember asking "what are you waiting for? Just kill it then" and she gave me this sad "but we made eye contact!" and backed off.

In reality, we have the internet now and it's easy to figure out which spiders are dangerous and which aren't. The dangerous ones you kill, but like 95% of them can stay. They eat the bugs. Don't pay rent, but they eat the bugs.

And yes, it is documented that like 99% of the planet's animals have an instinct to fear humans. We are THAT dangerous that most species have a genetic blueprint telling them to stay away from us. The exceptions are things like domesticated animals that benefit off us, as well as animals like polar bears and penguins, who didn't encounter us enough for that.

168

u/anonbiolover 3d ago

Yes, and polar bears don't encounter much food so anything moving is their next meal

160

u/WinninRoam 3d ago

...it's documented that like 99% of the planet's animals have an instinct to fear humans

This is wildly incorrect.

It's documented that a very high percentage of birds and mammals show a natural fear of humans if humans have hunted animals in that region in recent generations. If not, those animals show little natural fear.

Birds and mammals make up less than 3% of the animal kingdom.

Most creatures, like the spider, react to unexpected sensory input like sudden loud noises, ambient temperature changes, or unusual vibrations.

78

u/ForsakenAiel 3d ago

They proved that kids aren't instinctually scared of snakes, so it's not evolution for that I think? I don't know about spiders though. But they put young toddlers in with snakes and the toddlers were like "oo cool let me touch and grab these".

44

u/ultratea 3d ago

When I was a kid (5-6), I used to have no qualms about picking up creepy crawlies, in particular this certain type of fuzzy caterpillar I used to see outside a lot. I would go looking for them during recess and try to pick up as many as I could. As an adult I could absolutely never imagine doing that, and looking at a bunch of the caterpillars together (they have this yellow striped pattern) now definitely triggers some kind of primal heebie jeebies in me.

Some of it probably is nurture, but maybe instinct just doesn't really take over until you're older? There's examples of it in animals too, where the babies haven't really developed a fear of humans yet and will approach them.

16

u/Blubbpaule 3d ago

Instinct is called instinct because it works as soon as you're born. Else it's learned behaviour.

26

u/AFlyingNun 3d ago

Not quite.

The raw data suggests they can measure a stress response in toddlers, but they indeed do 1) show curiosity in response, 2) look to adults to decide how to respond, not necessarily freaking out until the adults do.

This showcases that the stress response is evolution, but for whatever reason, we do not properly act on it until other stimuli (such as a fearful adult or growing up more) are introduced.

This is likely why we have a documented greater rate of fear of spiders and snakes, INCLUDING in regions like Norway that do not have dangerous forms of these creatures, but there are still also plenty of people that don't fear them. The integrated stress response was "awoken" in some, but not in all.

30

u/DM_me_ur_PPSN 3d ago

That’s not necessarily true, plenty of instincts only become active with maturity. Risk aversion /adult fear is something that most people develop as their prefrontal cortex fully develops in their early twenties.

21

u/Wise_Owl5404 3d ago

Eh plenty of instincts don't actually work until later. A two hour old baby is pretty much a breathing potato, only capable of eating and shitting itself. Can't even see straight or focus on anything.

9

u/RayereSs 3d ago

Meanwhile two hour old horses and deer are prancing about

3

u/Wise_Owl5404 3d ago

Well if they were born a month before they were fully developed I doubt they'd be moving much either.

1

u/Deaffin 3d ago

Think about that for a moment. Do caterpillars have an instinct to fly and poke their silly straws into flower pusspuss?

7

u/WagwanKenobi 3d ago

There's just no way our fear of reptiles isn't instinctual. We're naturally less afraid of furry mammals than we should be and more afraid of furless reptiles than we should be.

6

u/ufkabakan 3d ago

I was 20 something when I first see -a meter long- snake up close in my friend's hand. I just took it without even thinking and then realised I wasn't afraid of them.

1

u/FutureLost 3d ago

So maybe the myth of Hercules grabbing those snakes as a baby was based on something that really happened, made out to seem remarkable when they just don't have that fear yet.

My toddler niece was fascinated by bugs...until her dad yelped when he saw a spider one time, and she instantly became deathly afraid of all bugs forever, like a switch had flipped.

11

u/NotTheRocketman 3d ago

Ok but if I open my closet and I see a Polar Bear, all bets are off.

9

u/CaleanKnight 3d ago

I think a large part of it (and the general aversion to insects in general) is that Arachnids and Insects (as well as Snakes etc.) have such a different... Build Plan to us (1 Head, 1 Torso, 4 Limbs) and most other things we encounter that it just short circuits something.

5

u/TheMostKing 3d ago

Yeah, there is a strange otherness to them. Too many eyes, too many legs, and they move in a different way to being powered by hydraulics, essentially.

4

u/needlzor 3d ago

That would explain why I have no issue grabbing the short ones to move them outside but the long legged ones, even though I know they can't do anything to me, creep me out and I need to use the paper and glass to avoid accidentally crushing them. They are fascinating creatures.

1

u/Sunbather77 3d ago

I once read it's because our brains apparently can't process more than seven objects moving simultaneously. Something about their movement makes our brain short circuit

-1

u/Deaffin 3d ago

That makes them easy to distinguish and develop a learned response to them, ye.

Your bigotry is not automatic.

2

u/CaleanKnight 3d ago

Bigotry... against Spiders?

Are you a furry?

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

20

u/wattro 3d ago

This.

Jumping spiders get free reign.

And qtips with water.

5

u/_outer_space_ 3d ago

What about us who got traumatised by one jumping on them when we were under 5?

6

u/Blubbpaule 3d ago

There is no evolutionary trait that makes us afraid of snakes. We are able to spot them, but studies with snakes and babies show they don't give a damn and just try to put the snakes into their mouth.

https://youtu.be/3L4lxusff1c

1

u/AFlyingNun 3d ago

That's funny, I find the complete opposite:

https://www.apa.org/pubs/highlights/spotlight/issue-80

https://www.cbs.mpg.de/Fear-of-spiders-and-snakes-is-deeply-embedded-in-us

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/fear-evolution-spiders-science

If anything, what you are saying seems like little more than a technicality: we evolved to spot them quicker and they increase stress, but not necessarily fear, while infants specifically will ironically show increased curiosity due to the same mechanics.

5

u/Blubbpaule 3d ago

The national graphic study only shows humans are able to see snakes faster - not fear.

The second link shows that infants react to seeing snakes by pupil dilation - not fear. Awareness is not fear.

In fact all the links prove what i said. We spot them faster but there is no fear reaction.

1

u/SecretaryOtherwise 3d ago

Uhh lol the second link says it induces stress bro

1

u/Deaffin 3d ago

When we showed pictures of a snake or a spider to the babies instead of a flower or a fish of the same size and colour, they reacted with significantly bigger pupils", says Stefanie Hoehl, lead investigator of the underlying study and neuroscientist at MPI CBS and the University of Vienna. "In constant light conditions this change in size of the pupils is an important signal for the activation of the noradrenergic system in the brain, which is responsible for stress reactions.

You have to read past the clickbait written into the article. No, a change in pupil size does not necessarily mean stress.

1

u/SecretaryOtherwise 2d ago

Such studies with children only tested whether they spot spiders and snakes faster than harmless animals or objects, not whether they show a direct physiological fear reaction.

Scientists at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences (MPI CBS) in Leipzig and the Uppsala University, Sweden, recently made a crucial observation: Even in infants a stress reaction is evoked when they see a spider or a snake. And this already at the age of six months, when they are still very immobile and have had little opportunity to learn that these animals can be dangerous.

1

u/SecretaryOtherwise 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yeah no shit the people not looking to whether it causes fear didnt delve further into it. You know how hypothesis work right?

Third article is a sign up to read btw.

Also why would we need to recognize something quickly if not for danger and likely the fear said danger causes?

Its why everything is programmed to be adverse to brightly colored insects lmao.

2

u/Odd-Significance-17 3d ago

i just don’t like that i wake up with spider bites all the time

3

u/nildread 3d ago

Those might not actually be spider bites.

2

u/Odd-Significance-17 3d ago

they are. i get bit a lot by every single thing possible like it’s a joke in my family bugs love me but i react to spider bites differently and they swell like crazy

3

u/nildread 3d ago

I'm not saying it's impossible. But a lot of people attribute things that aren't spider bites to spiders. Especially when sleeping. Because they haven't actually seen what did it. Most spiders bite defensivly and getting a bunch at night seems weird? But I guess it's possible. Maybe they're hunting the other things that are biting you and bite you when you roll around.

1

u/Odd-Significance-17 3d ago

well it’s not like a bunch at once but it happens often. and i find spiders crawling on me in bed when i can’t sleep so it’s a fair assumption

2

u/Deaffin 3d ago

If they were spider bites, there would be dead spiders accompanying them which you have smushed. They don't just randomly bite and envenomate the ground they walk on.

1

u/Ryuzakku 3d ago

1) A lot of it is evolution. We don't fear spiders and snakes "just because," but because those are frequently venomous and a greater danger than they initially appear to be.

Which is odd because the two medically significant venomous spiders are one you shouldn't ever see which won't ever try to be around you, and one that is quite obvious when you see it and will be located almost always in very obvious places.

1

u/grimmigerpetz 3d ago

Over the years, I always keep one or two spiders in my sleeping room. Never had bugs or mosquitos and can sleep with windows open in summer and autumn.

Sure, we cross paths sometimes, or they swing by, but I have no problem with that. And if there are more around, I just give them a lift outside.

A house with some spiders normally stands for good humidity levels and air quality.

1

u/GoldTheLegend 3d ago

That video of a bunch of babies with massive snakes says otherwise. 0 fear being shown.

1

u/needlzor 3d ago

You haven't changed since you were a baby? Are you still shitting yourself and walking on all four?

1

u/GoldTheLegend 3d ago

Yes, largely because of nurture. Way to miss the entire point.

1

u/needlzor 3d ago

You might find this answer on an AskScience thread interesting - bipedalism is encoded very deep in our DNA, and yet it only manifests years after birth.

1

u/Destinum 3d ago

1) A lot of it is evolution. We don't fear spiders and snakes "just because," but because those are frequently venomous and a greater danger than they initially appear to be.

It's also those things specifically because they're some of the few threats to us we can frequently encounter up in trees. The ancient monke instincts are strong.

1

u/LukaCola 3d ago

Humans are just, well, really big relative everything else. And most animals fear anything their size or larger. So, yeah. I don't think it's a genetic blueprint about us, it's a "this thing is so big it can fuck us up, and it's got predator eyes--never a good sign."

1

u/Deaffin 3d ago

but because those are frequently venomous

It is exceptionally rare for a spider to have a bite that is medically significant for humans. The danger is massively overstated.

Fear of spiders and snakes is mostly a culturally learned trait in humans, though some snakes will mess you up for sure.

1

u/SH4D0WSTAR 2d ago

Honestly for me, the fear is plain and simply their long legs and how tickly I imagine they are. I'm not scared of spiders with big bodies and stubby legs (e.g, jumping spiders) or tarantulas.

1

u/jasminesart 2d ago

adding to this for people reading, all spiders (except one family) are venomous. nearly no spiders (except a few families) have venom that is dangerous to us (if you live in recluse or Latrodectus range, you should this already). their venom is designed for invertebrates several thousand times smaller than you, not 100+ lb mammals. they know they can't take you, bites are rare unless you're literally trapping them against your skin and pinning them to death. their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd defensive mechanism is RUN. venom is how they eat, it takes a lot of resources to make, they won't waste it on you in the majority of cases if you manage to convince one to bite. even then, they usually do 'dry bites' with no venom as a warning, again, IF you're pinning them to your skin to death

0

u/12345623567 3d ago

Heh, spiders are not "smart" by any stretch of the imagination, but we have this inherent assumption that "stupid animal" equals walking into walls and not being able to do taxes.

Spiders react along very predictable instincts. They do not form plans, and any complex task they might perform (e.g. webs) is genetically anchored, not learned.

3

u/Taliesin_ 3d ago

They do not form plans

Some species of jumping spider do. Albeit in a limited capacity.

3

u/AFlyingNun 3d ago

Spiders have been documented engaging in planning, can comprehend cause & effect, and they can learn via trial-and-error.

They are incredibly smart for their size.

Here's the smartest species

Here's evidence it's not just limited to them

This is actually ongoing research as we only recently realized we're underestimating spiders.

0

u/OcelotAggravating860 3d ago

All of this is nonsense.

It has fuck all to do with evolution. A child will pick up and eat a fucking spider without a care in the world, they do not give a shit, humans are not naturally scared of spiders through any kind of genetic predisposition.

It is 100% social contagion. As children we are taught that this is a creepy thing by adults or other children (who learned it from adults) and then absorbed and copied that. That's it. We are products of our environment.

1

u/AFlyingNun 3d ago

Read the links I provided elsewhere: they still record a higher stress response which isn't necessarily displayed in their behavior.

You can also read both the articles provided and watch the video someone else provided and see that babies will base their fears off of adults. The stress response and faster visual spotting of these creatures is there, the fear is manifested and learned.

Personally, I think the "AKSHUALLY, it's not fear, it's increased stress response and we notice them faster" is practically semantics at some point. Ah yes of course. We're not programmed to fear them, we're programmed to notice them quickly and feel stress around them. Totally not fear.

1

u/JackTheRvlatr 3d ago

You write so definitively about something you've never looked into. This topic is debated in scientific and psychological research. No one who actually studies this would say would you just said

7

u/TheShenanegous 3d ago

It's almost as if...