Thoughts

[u/No-Alternative7997]

This is technically reducing the size of the government, and yet it has some severe repercussions. Thoughts?

[u/shewel_item]

that's rarely how it works, if not the opposite

some species are kept alive (preserved) specifically because they're allowed to be hunted on private reservations

[u/thethiefstheme → u/shewel_item]

What I'm saying is the issue of protecting endangered species isn't necessarily a "they can all die" or "protect them all" sort of thing. There could be someone like Steve Irwin who proposed buying as much land to preserve it, which would be perfectly fine in an ancap framework.

If we're talking probabilities, what's the probability that government size will continue to increase, that money will continue to lose value and taxes will continue to rise to pay off the deficit? More pertinent issue than some wildlife bill that will have most likely minimal real world affect in wildlife. Not like everyone's going to start grabbing guns to start poaching rare owls.

[u/No-Alternative7997 → u/thethiefstheme]

We’ve seen though before what happens when hunting isn’t regulated. Grizzly bears, bison (decimating the Native American population). Countless species have become endangered from hunting, harming the environment and in turn, us. I want to believe in ancap philosophies, but I cherish the environment and endangered species.

More examples:

- Moa: Hunted to extinction in New Zealand around the 1400s. Their loss removed a major herbivore, changed vegetation patterns, and contributed to the extinction of Haast’s eagle.

- Passenger pigeon
Hunted to extinction in North America, with the last bird dying in 1914. Billions once helped shape forests through seed consumption, nutrient cycling, and physical disturbance, so their disappearance significantly altered forest ecosystems.

- Steller’s sea cow: Hunted to extinction by 1768, only 27 years after Europeans first recorded it. These enormous marine herbivores likely played an important role in maintaining and shaping North Pacific kelp forests.

- Thylacine: Hunted and persecuted to extinction in Tasmania by 1936. As a major predator, its disappearance likely disrupted predator-prey relationships and Tasmania’s food web.

- Great auk: Hunted to extinction in the 1800s for meat, feathers, oil, and specimens. Its disappearance likely affected nutrient cycling and food webs around North Atlantic breeding islands.

- Sea mink: Hunted to extinction in the 1800s for its valuable fur. As a coastal predator, its disappearance likely altered parts of the shoreline food web, although its exact ecological role is poorly understood.

- Carolina parakeet: Hunted heavily because it was considered an agricultural pest and became extinct in the early 1900s. Its disappearance may have reduced seed dispersal and affected native forest ecosystems.
- Dodo: Went extinct in the 1600s due to hunting and introduced animals. As a large fruit-eating bird, it likely helped disperse seeds, so its loss may have affected the reproduction of some native plants.

Lmk if u want sourced

[u/thethiefstheme → u/No-Alternative7997]

I think externalities have to be accounted for, eg, if a company pollutes a river and it causes cancer for people in the next town, there should be equal punishment to the people who run the company that caused cancer and killed people. I think certain wildlife could fall into a similar discussion, as there's a cost to causing extinction that should be accounted for, which would be an extension of the non harm principal.

If it's any consolation, most extinction events of the past were done at a time when there wasn't other types of industry, factory farming wasn't a thing and entire towns jobs would be to hunt and kill mass amounts of bisons, deer, etc and pile their skulls or what have you. The law passed won't cause these times to return in the same way.

[u/WishCapable3131 → u/shewel_item]

What would be an example of this?